(10-16-2014 08:04 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(10-16-2014 07:37 AM)BobL Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 08:07 PM)klake87 Wrote:  The new abola patient actually called the CDC tell them that she was running a fever and they said it was okay for her to fly. The CDC is incompetent

I would say that person was incompetent, not the CDC. You need to take all info and make a smart decision. Id even say that nurse should have known better. Fever, worked at Texas Hospital...stay home.

The real incompetence(and they are accepting blame here) is at Texas Presb. Hospital.

The CDC is supposed to be the EXPERT. The hospital in Texas made a mistake but they had no idea it was Ebola. Local hospitals are not equipped to handle this type of situation.

Secondly, Frieden went on Megyn Kelly's show and did not bring up this patient. A couple hours later it was reported. Poor communication within the CDC or he just decided not to bring it up.

The docs at the texas hospital were told by the patient he was in from Liberia and was running a fever. The should not have needed any more info. The hospital has said as much.. They f'd up.

The initial non diagnosis has to be on the attending doctors or nurses. That is inexcusable.

I think the main worry though is that it is nurses contracting it. The people who should be able to 'contain' it as the CDC has said. Clearly there is a gap in the procedures of how treatment is handled at this point.

(10-15-2014 03:04 PM)klake87 Wrote:  Its called priorities. These programs do not get people re elected. They need their pork projects. There is plenty of money just mismanaged and misspent. We spend money worrying about turtles being able to cross a busy road. Stop it and use it on REAL problems.

Do you think Obama, Democrats or Republicans gave a rats ass till now. kick the can.

The real problem is some conservative groups cherry pick examples of some government agency spending $100K on studying video game violence or on turtles and use it as proof that WASTE is rampant in our multitrillion dollar budget, and before you know it you have know nothing Iowa farmer congressmen slashing tens of billions from the CDC's emergency preparedness budget, contributing to a worldwide health crisis and Social Security for millions has been privatized and lost in the stock market because of the same Ebola crisis.

I'd imagine a big part of why Duncan was turned away from his initial visit to the hospital was because he was uninsured and when a person who can't pay lands at a hospital's doorstep, the standard protocol is to give them some aspirin and send them on their way. If we had universal health care maybe they wouldn't have been trying to rush him out the door. Some also posit racism played a motive. Maybe, but I think his being uninsured played a bigger role.

And yes the surgeon general nominee was filibustered by Republicans because of... guns. Yes, apparently he wasn't too keen on assault rifles, so the NRA made the GOP filibuster him. Yes it's true you have an "acting" surgeon general but he wasn't appointed or confirmed by the senate so his statements don't carry the weight of authority that a full term surgeon general would.

So having a appointed Surgeon General would have stopped Ebola from coming to the U.S. and would have prevented the two nurses from contracting it?

(10-16-2014 02:03 PM)Max Power Wrote:  I'd imagine a big part of why Duncan was turned away from his initial visit to the hospital was because he was uninsured and when a person who can't pay lands at a hospital's doorstep, the standard protocol is to give them some aspirin and send them on their way. If we had universal health care maybe they wouldn't have been trying to rush him out the door. Some also posit racism played a motive. Maybe, but I think his being uninsured played a bigger role.

We could have universal healthcare where everyone is given an aspirin after waiting hours in a dirty emergency room before being sent home to die. Sounds good.

'Max Power Wrote:And yes the surgeon general nominee was filibustered by Republicans because of... guns. Yes, apparently he wasn't too keen on assault rifles, so the NRA made the GOP filibuster him. Yes it's true you have an "acting" surgeon general but he wasn't appointed or confirmed by the senate so his statements don't carry the weight of authority that a full term surgeon general would.

You seriously see a functional difference, especially in the context of the Ebola effort, between an "acting" and a full term surgeon general? You are proposing that the worker bees in the CDC didn't listen to someone because they are "acting?"

(10-16-2014 01:59 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 03:04 PM)klake87 Wrote:  Its called priorities. These programs do not get people re elected. They need their pork projects. There is plenty of money just mismanaged and misspent. We spend money worrying about turtles being able to cross a busy road. Stop it and use it on REAL problems.

Do you think Obama, Democrats or Republicans gave a rats ass till now. kick the can.

The real problem is some conservative groups cherry pick examples of some government agency spending $100K on studying video game violence or on turtles and use it as proof that WASTE is rampant in our multitrillion dollar budget, and before you know it you have know nothing Iowa farmer congressmen slashing tens of billions from the CDC's emergency preparedness budget, contributing to a worldwide health crisis and Social Security for millions has been privatized and lost in the stock market because of the same Ebola crisis.

That is comedy gold right there.

(10-16-2014 02:03 PM)Max Power Wrote:  I'd imagine a big part of why Duncan was turned away from his initial visit to the hospital was because he was uninsured and when a person who can't pay lands at a hospital's doorstep, the standard protocol is to give them some aspirin and send them on their way. If we had universal health care maybe they wouldn't have been trying to rush him out the door. Some also posit racism played a motive. Maybe, but I think his being uninsured played a bigger role.

And yes the surgeon general nominee was filibustered by Republicans because of... guns. Yes, apparently he wasn't too keen on assault rifles, so the NRA made the GOP filibuster him. Yes it's true you have an "acting" surgeon general but he wasn't appointed or confirmed by the senate so his statements don't carry the weight of authority that a full term surgeon general would.

If anything with what is going on you would think his race would have been a bigger reason to keep him there..... But yes cry racism yet again.

This is just laughable. Again, compare the resumes of the the acting SG vs the appointed SG. To say it is only because of guns is ignorant.

(10-16-2014 02:03 PM)Max Power Wrote:   Yes it's true you have an "acting" surgeon general but he wasn't appointed or confirmed by the senate so his statements don't carry the weight of authority that a full term surgeon general would.

Of all the you spew this might be the most ridiculous.

I think his statements do not carry weight because he is white.

The Ebola problem has been growing for awhile this is not new. Why did the CDC (Center for Disease Control) not have a plan in place and not implement some of the testing sooner. We should ban travel from West African nations immediately. They are starting to designate hospitals for Ebola care. Podunk hospital in Cedar Rapids should not be a long term care facility.

(10-16-2014 02:50 PM)klake87 Wrote:  So having a appointed Surgeon General would have stopped Ebola from coming to the U.S. and would have prevented the two nurses from contracting it?

GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:You seriously see a functional difference, especially in the context of the Ebola effort, between an "acting" and a full term surgeon general? You are proposing that the worker bees in the CDC didn't listen to someone because they are "acting?"

Wut? No, you're putting words in my mouth. But so many people (eg John McCain) are calling for somebody to be "in charge" and speak "with authority" to the public and in medical matters the Surgeon General typically does just that.

Nobody takes the word of an "acting" or "interim" anything as seriously. It doesn't matter if he has impressive credentials. And speaking with authority is the great benefit of having a Surgeon General.

Don't take my word for it. Republicans in Congress don't seem to care what the Acting Surgeon General has to say because they're calling for a "czar" to be appointed.

Quote:We could have universal healthcare where everyone is given an aspirin after waiting hours in a dirty emergency room before being sent home to die. Sounds good.

Or we could be like one of the many universal health care systems that have higher life expectancies than the US. Including Cuba.

Quote:That is comedy gold right there.

It would be more funny if it weren't true.

Turner4Heisman Wrote:If anything with what is going on you would think his race would have been a bigger reason to keep him there..... But yes cry racism yet again.

This is just laughable. Again, compare the resumes of the the acting SG vs the appointed SG. To say it is only because of guns is ignorant.

I said his race "maybe" was a factor. Yes I say Murthy was blocked because of guns, because that's what Sen. Paul said when he blocked the nomination.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...nra.2.html

Quote:Feb. 26: Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul sends Majority Leader Harry Reid a letter announcing his intention to put a hold on the Murthy nomination. “In his efforts to curtail Second Amendment rights, Dr. Murthy has continually referred to guns as a public health issue on par with heart disease and has diminished the role of mental health in gun violence,” writes Paul. “As a physician, I am deeply concerned that he has advocated that doctors use their position of trust to ask patients, including minors, details about gun ownership in the home.”

(10-16-2014 07:13 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Wut? No, you're putting words in my mouth. But so many people (eg John McCain) are calling for somebody to be "in charge" and speak "with authority" to the public and in medical matters the Surgeon General typically does just that.

Nobody takes the word of an "acting" or "interim" anything as seriously. It doesn't matter if he has impressive credentials. And speaking with authority is the great benefit of having a Surgeon General.

Don't take my word for it. Republicans in Congress don't seem to care what the Acting Surgeon General has to say because they're calling for a "czar" to be appointed.

I don't care what John McCain has to say. If you Democrats would stop fawning over him, he'd retire. They are wrong on the need for a "czar," but their point is that they don't think the CDC or President have treated this specific situation with the attention they believe it requires.

Max Power Wrote:

Quote:We could have universal healthcare where everyone is given an aspirin after waiting hours in a dirty emergency room before being sent home to die. Sounds good.

Or we could be like one of the many universal health care systems that have higher life expectancies than the US. Including Cuba.

Suggesting that Cuba has a better healthcare system than us is patently ridiculous. And, as you know, when you adjust those life expectancies for lifestyle choices, such as obesity, smoking, etc., and remove things such as suicides, those numbers look much different. Plus, earlier, you were bemoaning how our health apparatus hasn't done even more for Africa during this outbreak. Tell me again who what country has the only treatment for Ebola. I'll give you a hint. It isn't Cuba.

The PC liberal agenda of this administration has ruined this country and threatened all of us. Anyone entering this country from that region should be quarantined for 30 days before allowing to enter the US. This govt of ours cares more for those on the outside than their own citizens.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/...a-vaccine/

Plenty of waste. Its called priorities. Because Ebola was on back burner, waste money on less pressing things.

(10-16-2014 07:13 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

Turner4Heisman Wrote:If anything with what is going on you would think his race would have been a bigger reason to keep him there..... But yes cry racism yet again.

This is just laughable. Again, compare the resumes of the the acting SG vs the appointed SG. To say it is only because of guns is ignorant.

I said his race "maybe" was a factor. Yes I say Murthy was blocked because of guns, because that's what Sen. Paul said when he blocked the nomination.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...nra.2.html

Quote:Feb. 26: Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul sends Majority Leader Harry Reid a letter announcing his intention to put a hold on the Murthy nomination. “In his efforts to curtail Second Amendment rights, Dr. Murthy has continually referred to guns as a public health issue on par with heart disease and has diminished the role of mental health in gun violence,” writes Paul. “As a physician, I am deeply concerned that he has advocated that doctors use their position of trust to ask patients, including minors, details about gun ownership in the home.”

Why say Race was MAYBE a factor? You have 0 source of credible information on that. Just spewing more bullsh*t. MAYBE it was because he had too much hair on his back. MAYBE it was because he had 4 toes. MAYBE it was because his pants were on just a little too tight.

So you have one senator making one comment he was completely blocked because of his stance on guns? And at that, his comment comparing guns vs heart disease is outlandish. And Paul is dead on in that assessment. How about stick to treating people and stay out of politics Murthy.

And did you care to compare the resumes between the acting SG and potentially appointed SG? One worked with the CDC extensively, specifically infectious disease. One spent a majority of his time building a network of doctors to fund and support Obama.

Honestly..take a step back and look at this rationally..

Ebola has killed less than 5000 people worldwide, 1 person in the US. The Flu kills more than 250,000 people per year worldwide.

Every so often a flu virus is identified and the CDC talks about the risks, potential for a pandemic, etc and tens of millions of vaccines are ordered. Then when there is not a pandemic and millions of excess vaccines, they are criticized for overreacting and costing taxpayers millions of dollars.

Now we have Ebola in the US, a virus that scares the crap out of people...as it should. The current spread has occurred as a result of one hospital that was unprepared, did not have the facilities or training needed to treat Ebola patients. The Hospital should have acknowledged this, the CDC should known this and immediately moved this patient to one of the 4 facilities certified to handle level 4 biohazards...

I dont see here how the CDC has failed(except as I mentioned above). But to say the CDC or Obama is unprepared is as ridiculous as the CDC saying lack of funding prevented them from finding a vaccine.

One person in the US has died from Ebola (so far)...30,000+ die each year in the US from Flu. Dozens of kids die from accidental gun shots each year...but when the CDC and government talk about trigger locks the right goes nuts.

Perspective is lost when fear takes over...and quite frankly thats what our politicians and many in the media are doing..promoting fear...

(10-17-2014 09:21 AM)BobL Wrote:  Honestly..take a step back and look at this rationally..

Ebola has killed less than 5000 people worldwide, 1 person in the US. The Flu kills more than 250,000 people per year worldwide.

Every so often a flu virus is identified and the CDC talks about the risks, potential for a pandemic, etc and tens of millions of vaccines are ordered. Then when there is not a pandemic and millions of excess vaccines, they are criticized for overreacting and costing taxpayers millions of dollars.

Now we have Ebola in the US, a virus that scares the crap out of people...as it should. The current spread has occurred as a result of one hospital that was unprepared, did not have the facilities or training needed to treat Ebola patients. The Hospital should have acknowledged this, the CDC should known this and immediately moved this patient to one of the 4 facilities certified to handle level 4 biohazards...

I dont see here how the CDC has failed(except as I mentioned above). But to say the CDC or Obama is unprepared is as ridiculous as the CDC saying lack of funding prevented them from finding a vaccine.

One person in the US has died from Ebola (so far)...30,000+ die each year in the US from Flu. Dozens of kids die from accidental gun shots each year...but when the CDC and government talk about trigger locks the right goes nuts.

Perspective is lost when fear takes over...and quite frankly thats what our politicians and many in the media are doing..promoting fear...

I am not saying they failed. There will be mistakes but they have to correct them faster due to severity of illness. The Democrats are blaming budget cuts for not having a vaccine which is absolutely insane. I just want honesty which I do not feel we are getting. The CDC is trying to get a handle on it without causing panic but now the second nurse traveled, might have know, but wedding plans more important than public safety. Anyone who works at the hospital should be on a no fly list for at least 21 days after last reported case.

Protocols are still poor for how to deal with this. Hospitals are still not ready.

Bob- I agree the fear mongering among the media and politicians is absolutely sickening. No pun intended haha.

The difference though when people make the flu claim is the flu does not have the mortality rate that Ebola does. If I catch the flu, like i have many times in my life I am most likely not going to die. If I caught ebola, then I am flipping coins.

Personally, and this is true of many govt agencies, I find it absolutely wrong that a position such as head of the CDC and the Surgeon General are politically appointed positions. I am not saying that as any sort of left vs right argument. Any appointee that Cons would propose would also have political agendas to a certain extent as well.

That being said the head of the CDC has no business getting involved in gun control.

(10-17-2014 09:40 AM)Turner4Heisman Wrote:  Bob- I agree the fear mongering among the media and politicians is absolutely sickening. No pun intended haha.

The difference though when people make the flu claim is the flu does not have the mortality rate that Ebola does. If I catch the flu, like i have many times in my life I am most likely not going to die. If I caught ebola, then I am flipping coins.

Personally, and this is true of many govt agencies, I find it absolutely wrong that a position such as head of the CDC and the Surgeon General are politically appointed positions. I am not saying that as any sort of left vs right argument. Any appointee that Cons would propose would also have political agendas to a certain extent as well.

That being said the head of the CDC has no business getting involved in gun control.

Agree, right now mortality rate in the US is 25% with a very very small sample(1 death in 4 cases treated in US). Mortality rate in W Africa is something like 75%.

I would not consider trigger locks gun control, do you think the CDC ought to be recommending child seats in cars?

(10-16-2014 07:59 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(10-16-2014 07:13 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Wut? No, you're putting words in my mouth. But so many people (eg John McCain) are calling for somebody to be "in charge" and speak "with authority" to the public and in medical matters the Surgeon General typically does just that.

Nobody takes the word of an "acting" or "interim" anything as seriously. It doesn't matter if he has impressive credentials. And speaking with authority is the great benefit of having a Surgeon General.

Don't take my word for it. Republicans in Congress don't seem to care what the Acting Surgeon General has to say because they're calling for a "czar" to be appointed.

I don't care what John McCain has to say. If you Democrats would stop fawning over him, he'd retire. They are wrong on the need for a "czar," but their point is that they don't think the CDC or President have treated this specific situation with the attention they believe it requires.

Max Power Wrote:

Quote:We could have universal healthcare where everyone is given an aspirin after waiting hours in a dirty emergency room before being sent home to die. Sounds good.

Or we could be like one of the many universal health care systems that have higher life expectancies than the US. Including Cuba.

Suggesting that Cuba has a better healthcare system than us is patently ridiculous. And, as you know, when you adjust those life expectancies for lifestyle choices, such as obesity, smoking, etc., and remove things such as suicides, those numbers look much different. Plus, earlier, you were bemoaning how our health apparatus hasn't done even more for Africa during this outbreak. Tell me again who what country has the only treatment for Ebola. I'll give you a hint. It isn't Cuba.

The president has plenty else on his plate right now with ISIS threatening towns in Iraq and Syria. The CDC? Maybe they should have been looking over the hospital's workers' shoulders. And they may have made a mistake in letting that girl fly, but her temperature was 99.6 when she boarded, and I'm not even sure if that's high enough to technically be a fever. Although granted in this instance maybe they should have been overly cautious.

Yeah, Cuba doesn't smoke at all. If they're known for one thing, it's clean living and teetotaling.

Look, I agree the US has a world class health care system.... if you can afford it. If you're uninsured, it's not. And we're talking here about one guy who couldn't afford it, so he was rushed out of the hospital because he couldn't pay as is typical. And in their rush to discharge him they missed the glaring warning signs that he was carrying an infectious disease.

prairiedawg Wrote:The PC liberal agenda of this administration has ruined this country and threatened all of us. Anyone entering this country from that region should be quarantined for 30 days before allowing to enter the US. This govt of ours cares more for those on the outside than their own citizens.

Plenty of experts say that's a bad idea. If you do that people are going to find ways around the quarantine and because they're underground the CDC won't be able to track their movements and the virus will spread. It's important to help Africa fight and end this disease before it spreads to other continents because it will eventually find its way here. We can't wall off the US.

klake87 Wrote:Plenty of waste. Its called priorities. Because Ebola was on back burner, waste money on less pressing things.

That's $39 million, and the CDC's budget has a $9.5 billion shortfall. It's a drop in the bucket. It's even questionable that it's waste in the first place because there are clearly identifiable health goals.

Turner4Heisman Wrote:Why say Race was MAYBE a factor? You have 0 source of credible information on that. Just spewing more bullsh*t. MAYBE it was because he had too much hair on his back. MAYBE it was because he had 4 toes. MAYBE it was because his pants were on just a little too tight.

So you have one senator making one comment he was completely blocked because of his stance on guns? And at that, his comment comparing guns vs heart disease is outlandish. And Paul is dead on in that assessment. How about stick to treating people and stay out of politics Murthy.

And did you care to compare the resumes between the acting SG and potentially appointed SG? One worked with the CDC extensively, specifically infectious disease. One spent a majority of his time building a network of doctors to fund and support Obama.

Duncan's nephew made the race allegation. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. I don't know and neither do you (despite pretending you do), so "maybe" is the correct answer here. Racism does exist in our society. And black people do have it a little harder than people whose pants are on a little too tight.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest...-uncle.ece

Read the Slate article. It wasn't just Paul. Sen. Alexander too, and there was plenty of outrage in the conservative media about his take on guns. The NRA came out against him. It was a huge distraction. And yes guns kill as many as heart disease and that's fair to point out.

Have YOU compared their resumes? The Acting SG went to Northwestern and has a masters from Harvard. The SG nominee went to Harvard, holds a medical degree and masters from Yale and is an attending physician and teaches medicine at Harvard. I think the nominee is well qualified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivek_Murthy

Quote:Murthy is a physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston and a Hospitalist Attending Physician and Instructor in Medicine at Harvard Medical School.[9] He is also a founder and president of Doctors for America, a group of 15,000 physicians and medical students supporting Obama.[10][11] In 2011, Murthy was appointed by U.S. President Barack Obama to serve on the U.S. Presidential Advisory Council on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health within the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.[9] The group advises the National Prevention Council on developing strategies and partnerships to advance the nation's health.[12]

He is co-founder and chairman of TrialNetworks, a cloud-based Clinical Trial Optimization System for pharmaceutical and biotechnology trials that improves the quality and efficiency of clinical trials to bring new drugs to market faster and more safely.[13][14] He founded the company as Epernicus in 2008 to originally be a collaborative networking web platform for scientists to boost research productivity.[15] Since 1995, he has also worked in H.I.V. prevention and AIDS education, co-founding and serving as president and chairman of a non-profit organization, Visions Worldwide, focused on that mission in the U.S and in India.[10] He has been a prominent supporter of Obama's healthcare law.[16]

Oh no, the Obama nominee is a supporter of Obamacare and supports gun control. Shocking!