Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Colleges list their peers
Author Message
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,509
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1226
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #1
Colleges list their peers
chronicle.com/Who-Does-Your-College-Think/134222

Every year, colleges submit to the US Department of Education a list of those other schools they consider to be “peer” institutions. These are pretty subjective lists, and they also tend to be “aspirational” in nature. That is, schools will often list as peers schools they admire, and would like to emulate.

I wondered whether these lists could shed any light on potential realignment moves in the future. There is no athletic department input into these lists – only academic. It’s not possible to tell how much input or influence university presidents have over the data. But a quick search provided what I thought are some interesting insights.

BYU’s name is tossed around often as one of the few plums not yet in a P5 conference. BYU may be encouraging some of that. While a typical school lists about 16 peers, BYU mentioned 52. They listed 10 B1G schools, 9 SEC schools, 8 from the PAC 12, 7 from the Big 12 and 5 from the ACC.

They listed only 3 of their former MWC partners (Colorado St, New Mexico and Utah State), and only 2 from the AAC (UConn and Houston). They didn’t list any private schools, even though they are themselves private.

What I thought was even more interesting, though, was the list of schools that chose BYU as one of their peers, thinking that this could give insight into which P5 conference might be most likely to get enough votes to invite them. That list is a lot shorter than BYU’s was. It consists entirely of BYU-Idaho and Pepperdine. Maybe that tells us something.

Another G5 school lusting openly after a P5 invite is UConn. Of the 21 peers on their list are 16 from P5 conferences. I was surprised to see that only 3 of them are in the ACC. Instead, UConn lists 7 B1G schools as peers. That could suggest that the Huskies would prefer an invite from the B1G even though (and maybe because) many of its former BE partners went to the ACC.

Discouraging news for UConn is that none of the schools they listed reciprocated by naming them on their lists. Only FSU from the ACC and Rutgers from the B1G mentioned them (and Rutgers listed a staggering 97 schools). Three Big 12 schools named them – Iowa State, Texas Tech and West Virginia – and none of these are Big 12 power brokers.

Texas is often cited as a linchpin for the Big 12 – the school whose defection could trigger chaos and possibly dissolution. Everybody speculates about what their end game could be. They are often mentioned as a candidate for the ACC, either as a full member or a quasi-member a la Notre Dame. The Horns list 11 peers. UNC is the only ACC school on their list. There are 3 PAC 12 schools – Cal, UCLA and Washington – none of which reciprocated.

Significant is that they list 7 B1G schools, 5 of which also listed the Horns as a peer. In all, 8 B1G schools have UT on their list, more than any other P5 conference. Second, surprisingly, is the SEC (7) followed by the ACC (6) their own Big 12 (6) and the PAC 12 (3).

It is generally assumed that if the B1G were to invite Texas, they would want to add a 16th member at the same time (though they were happy to stay at an odd number for years before inviting Nebraska). Notably, Oklahoma was only named as a peer by one B1G school – Rutgers. Both Kansas and Missouri were listed by 5 B1G schools (including Rutgers).

I don't know if any of the above will have any impact on realignment, but I found it interesting.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2014 01:20 PM by ken d.)
09-30-2014 11:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,918
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1003
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Colleges list their peers
Link doesn't work
09-30-2014 11:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
All-American in Everything
*

Posts: 9,512
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 768
I Root For: UC
Location: IL & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #3
RE: Colleges list their peers
09-30-2014 11:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
lumberpack4 Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,336
Joined: Jun 2013
I Root For: ACC
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Colleges list their peers
It has nothing to do with realignment.

The peers are for measures related to your academic mission not sports.

Texas is an quasi-elite graduate research heavy institution with a huge student population. I forget their actually Carnegie classification but their peers are Cal, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc. There is not a large population, public, graduate research heavy school in the ACC that has all disciplines under their own roof. UNC-Ch does not have Engineering, Agriculture, Architecture, Vet School, etc. - that's at NC State. UVa does not have everything that VT has nor does Clemson have all that USC has and vice-versa - an intentionally splitting of missions has occurred in the three states. Pitt is mostly private.

It's interesting to look at because it allows you to know more about the actual mission of your favorite schools and what they use as a measuring stick but as far a sports - it's not a factor.
09-30-2014 12:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Captain Bearcat Offline
All-American in Everything
*

Posts: 9,512
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 768
I Root For: UC
Location: IL & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #5
RE: Colleges list their peers
Fascinating. I really like the methodology.

Interesting that the top 3 are Carleton, Princeton, and Oberlin. I had no idea Carleton and Oberlin were so well respected by their peers.

Also - 7 of the 11 schools that Texas selected as peers are in the Big 10.

Also - Notre Dame did not pick a single Catholic school as a peer.
09-30-2014 12:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
All-American in Everything
*

Posts: 9,512
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 768
I Root For: UC
Location: IL & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #6
RE: Colleges list their peers
Ranks for Big 10:
Michigan - 12
Illinois - 20
Wisconsin - 21
OSU - 28
Northwestern - 32
Minnesota - 34
Penn State - 38
Indiana - 44
Iowa - 48
Michigan State - 51
Purdue - 56
Maryland - 76
Nebraska - 85
Rutgers - 107


Ranks for AAC schools:
Cincinnati - 101
Tulane - 138
Memphis - 139
USF - 155
Temple - 160
Houston - 190
SMU - 237
UConn - 251
UCF - 281
ECU - 428
Tulsa - 784

If anyone wants to fill out the rest... I've got work to do.
09-30-2014 12:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
HeartOfDixie Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 24,689
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation: 945
I Root For: Alabama
Location: Huntsville AL
Post: #7
RE: Colleges list their peers
Peerage isn't quite about respect as much as it is the matching of missions and general characteristics. A peer is not necessarily a school you aspire to be like as much as a school that performs a role and mission very similar to your own.

It's a decent measuring stick but again, not perfect.
09-30-2014 12:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Carolina_Low_Country Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,425
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Go Pirates
Location: ENC
Post: #8
RE: Colleges list their peers
According to this here are our peers:
EAST CAROLINA
Texas Tech
Buffalo
South Carolina
Louisville
Nevada
Ohio
NIU
North Dakota
SIU-Carbondale
UMKC
VCU
FIU
Rutgers
Old Dominion
Western Michigan
South Alabama
Texas State
UTSA
Wright State
ETSU
Marshall
Oakland
James Madison
Georgia Southern
Towson
SIU-Edwardsville
Southeastern Louisiana
09-30-2014 12:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,509
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1226
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #9
RE: Colleges list their peers
(09-30-2014 12:03 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  It has nothing to do with realignment.

The peers are for measures related to your academic mission not sports.

Texas is an quasi-elite graduate research heavy institution with a huge student population. I forget their actually Carnegie classification but their peers are Cal, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc. There is not a large population, public, graduate research heavy school in the ACC that has all disciplines under their own roof. UNC-Ch does not have Engineering, Agriculture, Architecture, Vet School, etc. - that's at NC State. UVa does not have everything that VT has nor does Clemson have all that USC has and vice-versa - an intentionally splitting of missions has occurred in the three states. Pitt is mostly private.

It's interesting to look at because it allows you to know more about the actual mission of your favorite schools and what they use as a measuring stick but as far a sports - it's not a factor.

Whether it's a factor or not I think can be debated. To the extent that schools choose to align athletically with institutions that they have something in common with, it might say something about faculty sentiment, or even administration sentiment. But one has to be very careful not to read too much into this, as every school uses its own criteria and methodology in participating in this exercise.

For example, one might speculate that NC State's failure to list UNC as a peer and vice versa says something about the politics at those institutions. But, since the primary purpose of participating is that you receive comparative statistical information about the schools you list - like admission rates, average test scores, graduation rates, etc - there would be no reason for these schools to list each other since they already have access to that information.

As with most studies like this, there is too much going on to reach any conclusions about relationships. However, when there is a huge disconnect such as the BYU example, I think it's not unreasonable to wonder why.
09-30-2014 01:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
All-American in Everything
*

Posts: 9,512
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 768
I Root For: UC
Location: IL & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #10
RE: Colleges list their peers
(09-30-2014 12:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Peerage isn't quite about respect as much as it is the matching of missions and general characteristics. A peer is not necessarily a school you aspire to be like as much as a school that performs a role and mission very similar to your own.

It's a decent measuring stick but again, not perfect.

Agreed - except that when you ask an institution to list its "peers," they'll usually include a lot of institutions that are really aspirational peers. As in, "here's what we're trying to be."

For example, let's look at Kansas State. They listed 11 peers. Of those, 5 also selected KSU as a peer (KU, OU, OSU, ISU, TT). The other 6 were:
Colorado
Texas
Missouri
Nebraska
Texas A&M
Baylor

15 schools listed KSU as a peer. Other than the 5 that KSU reciprocated, the other 10 were:
Brigham Young
Montana State
New Mexico State
Rutgers (main campus)
Rutgers - Newark
Alaska
Idaho
University of Phoenix, Kansas City
UT Dallas
Western Michigan

As you see, the list is clearly a measure of a hierarchy. The list of schools that don't reciprocate is almost always going to be "better" schools than the schools who want to be like you.
09-30-2014 01:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Minutemen429 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 866
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 37
I Root For: UMass
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Colleges list their peers
People in general, but university presidents in this case always want to be associated with the people above them. The private/public and mission come into play but it doesn't surprise me that my school UMass wants to be peers with the big SUNY campus and UConn rather than URI or UNH.
09-30-2014 02:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TomThumb Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 687
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 18
I Root For: stuff
Location:
Post: #12
RE: Colleges list their peers
Can't draw too much from these numbers as some schools, most notably Cal and UCLA, did not respond to this survey so have no peers declared at all. That makes the theory in the OP that the PAC schools are dissing Texas a bit of a stretch.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2014 03:22 PM by TomThumb.)
09-30-2014 03:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jdgaucho Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,297
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 115
I Root For: UCSB
Location: Big West Land
Post: #13
RE: Colleges list their peers
Our peers:
UC Santa Barbara

Binghamton
Florida State
Iowa State
Michigan State
Rutgers
Albany
Stony Brook
Arizona
Colorado
UConn
UMass
Michigan
Mizzou
North Texas
Oregon
Pittsburgh
Virginia
Wisconsin

We are nationally ranked in the top-50 by USNWR and ARWU (29 nationally, 41 worldwide). Times Higher Education places us at 33. But we still have a reputation as a party school too - hence the alignment with Colorado, Oregon, Wisconsin, Arizona and Florida State. Basically, UC Santa Barbara is living proof you don't need football to be awesome 04-rock

Still, that's a nationally wide range of schools who are considered our peers.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2014 06:39 PM by jdgaucho.)
09-30-2014 06:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,509
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1226
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #14
RE: Colleges list their peers
(09-30-2014 06:29 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Our peers:
UC Santa Barbara

Binghamton
Florida State
Iowa State
Michigan State
Rutgers
Albany
Stony Brook
Arizona
Colorado
UConn
UMass
Michigan
Mizzou
North Texas
Oregon
Pittsburgh
Virginia
Wisconsin

We are nationally ranked in the top-50 by USNWR and ARWU (29 nationally, 41 worldwide). Times Higher Education places us at 33. But we still have a reputation as a party school too - hence the alignment with Colorado, Oregon, Wisconsin, Arizona and Florida State. Basically, UC Santa Barbara is living proof you don't need football to be awesome 04-rock

Still, that's a nationally wide range of schools who are considered our peers.

Keep in mind that the peer list isn't produced by a third party. It is self-generated. It isn't a ranking or value judgement.

Edit: I made a wrong assumption. These are schools that listed UC-SB as a peer, not the other way around. My bad.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2014 08:20 PM by ken d.)
09-30-2014 08:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.