(09-26-2014 07:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It is, in my opinion of course, inevitable that the Big 12 will dissolve. Everything that Texas has agreed to within the conference has only increased their negotiating potential with everyone else. In the end, the money will get offered.

As far as the playoff goes. I think it is much more likely we see a smaller expansion to a six team playoff rather than an eight team. A six team playoff has less chance of seeing the top teams go out right away as they get a bye. It is also less likely to have multiple teams from the same conference. It is inevitable that such happens with an 8 team playoff and thus the problem with rematches.

Nothing weakens the regular season of a conference like seeing your best team getting beat in the National Playoff by one of your other teams.

Right on though Ned about the AAC consolidating power once the time is right. All logic points to any school doing so that would be capable of doing so. With strength of schedule being such a big deal, they will want to pool as much power together in one conference as they can. That helps themselves with their chances of getting in a team and it also helps in their chances of scheduling pay day OOC games against Major Conference programs.

Those top teams have less chance to lose because they have no chance to lose, by definition. The question is, why should the possibility of an upset be considered a bad thing?

As for weakening the regular season of a conference, an even worse thing is having your best team getting beat in a CCG and not making the playoff at all.

(09-27-2014 09:29 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 07:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It is, in my opinion of course, inevitable that the Big 12 will dissolve. Everything that Texas has agreed to within the conference has only increased their negotiating potential with everyone else. In the end, the money will get offered.

As far as the playoff goes. I think it is much more likely we see a smaller expansion to a six team playoff rather than an eight team. A six team playoff has less chance of seeing the top teams go out right away as they get a bye. It is also less likely to have multiple teams from the same conference. It is inevitable that such happens with an 8 team playoff and thus the problem with rematches.

Nothing weakens the regular season of a conference like seeing your best team getting beat in the National Playoff by one of your other teams.

Right on though Ned about the AAC consolidating power once the time is right. All logic points to any school doing so that would be capable of doing so. With strength of schedule being such a big deal, they will want to pool as much power together in one conference as they can. That helps themselves with their chances of getting in a team and it also helps in their chances of scheduling pay day OOC games against Major Conference programs.

Those top teams have less chance to lose because they have no chance to lose, by definition. The question is, why should the possibility of an upset be considered a bad thing?

As for weakening the regular season of a conference, an even worse thing is having your best team getting beat in a CCG and not making the playoff at all.

I personally don't think the possibility of an upset is a bad thing. Just the opposite, I would rather have an 8 team playoff personally. That doesn't mean though that I think the 8 team playoff will be the next step. I do not have the same perspective as those who will be deciding.

You are right about the CCG but, the conferences want them to be important. That is a constant that will not change and will not go away. That is part of my equation.

(09-26-2014 04:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  There you go.
Consolidate into 2 super conferences.
Eastern Conference - 32 teams in eastern time zone (14 ACC, ND, WV, 8 BigTen, 8 SEC).
Western Conference - 34 teams in central, mtn and Pacific time zones (12 PAC, BYU, 9 Big12, 6 BigTen, 6 SEC).

That, or doing away with conferences altogether as a step toward bringing sanity back to college athletics.

(09-27-2014 09:39 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 04:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  There you go.
Consolidate into 2 super conferences.
Eastern Conference - 32 teams in eastern time zone (14 ACC, ND, WV, 8 BigTen, 8 SEC).
Western Conference - 34 teams in central, mtn and Pacific time zones (12 PAC, BYU, 9 Big12, 6 BigTen, 6 SEC).

That, or doing away with conferences altogether as a step toward bringing sanity back to college athletics.

Yes, because change is bad.

so...if you can't join them, try to destroy their club in the vain hope that THEN they will play you every year and treat you as a respected peer?

....kaaayyyy

(09-26-2014 10:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 07:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 06:37 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 03:51 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 03:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I guess he missed the memo about the debate over whether the SEC should invite WVU or Mizzou for #14. It was a close thing, and IMO the SEC chose a school that didn't fit culturally for the wrong reasons.

And thinking WVU would add nothing is rather ignorant. WVU in the SEC would have gotten the SEC plenty of exposure in the Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and DC markets, as well as reaching into eastern Ohio as far north as Cleveland. WVU's market reach would have expanded with SEC membership as well. It would have been a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Mizzou gained no extra market share from their SEC membership. Their exposure is about the same. They still share both St. Louis and Kansas City, and their market share is pretty much unchanged.

WVU, on the other hand, has gained exposure, and that exposure is translating into increased demand, despite WVU's early struggles in the B12.

What's ignorant is thinking that the SEC is particularly interested in Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

Besides, WVU strikes upon an insecurity the SEC has. It hardly needs a school worse academically than Ole Miss or MSU. That, coupled with a mediocre athletic product it was obvious why they took Mizzou and haven't looked back, and won't look again.

An Alabama fan bringing up academics? I almost spit my soda all over my monitor when I read your post. That was funny.

But had the SEC invited WVU, the conference could have encroached upon ACC and B1G markets. WVU's broadcast footprint reaches into VT, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, and Pitt country. West Virginia may be a small state. But there are a lot of people who live in the area surrounding the State of West Virginia, and more than you think follow WVU.

Mizzou plays 2nd fiddle to the B1G in St. Louis. They're 2nd fiddle to the B12 in Kansas City. The Tigers had their one good year, thanks to the weakness of the SEC East. But as the loss to Indiana showed, their 15 minutes of fame is over.

Petty, but I'm not here to stoop to your level and trade barbs.


We weren't going to take a school that would simply replace Miss State at the very bottom, that's just a fact so don't get your panties in a twist. WVU would have hurt the conference from an academic standpoint. It will hurt any conference it is in.

Mizzou was the better grab. That's why we took it and not you. It increased the footprint and added some academic credentials.

I have never thought that Mizzou was a good grab for the SEC. FWIW, I don't think WVU would be either. Neither add much fan interest, and both are culturally distant from the mores and values of the SEC, which is a thoroughly "dixie" culture.

The weakness of the Mizzou acquisition hasn't been exposed so far because the excellence of the TAMU acquisition - easily the best addition any conference has made in the past 5 years of realignment - has covered for it. But the SEC shouldn't have settled for Mizzou.

Of the schools that were out there at the time Mizzou was invited, only Texas, Oklahoma, UNC, Duke, or UVA were worth the SEC's time. If they aren't interested, the SEC shouldn't expand.

I agree with you. I don't think they were a fantastic add but they were head and shoulders above WVU.

WVU would have weakened the conference in many ways and contributed nothing that the SEC has any interest in.

The truth is nobody really wants WVU.

The Alabama fans I spoke with in Atlanta disagreed with you.

Hypothetically the world could end.

(09-27-2014 09:40 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Hypothetically the world could end.

Oh, it will for non-believers, when God is ready for Jesus to return!

(09-27-2014 10:58 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  so...if you can't join them, try to destroy their club in the vain hope that THEN they will play you every year and treat you as a respected peer?

....kaaayyyy

There is a name for that it is called........Revolution. Peasants have done it over and over throughout history.

(09-28-2014 07:42 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(09-27-2014 10:58 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  so...if you can't join them, try to destroy their club in the vain hope that THEN they will play you every year and treat you as a respected peer?

....kaaayyyy

There is a name for that it is called........Revolution. Peasants have done it over and over throughout history.

Yes, but for a peasant revolt to matter they have to have the power to make the elites pay attention. They have to be a credible threat to either take over, or at a minimum wreck things up so much that it would be a big costly disruption even if they can't take over.

In this case, the G5 schools could 'protest and riot' all they want but the P5 could just shrug their shoulders and get on with the polo match, because the G5 just doesn't have any power.

Exactly.

You can kill french bourgeoisie and take their stuff to make yourself feel better.

You CANT kill a P5 program. You cant force them to play you. You cant force them to respect you.

In other words, you can't coerce them in any way to do what you want.

The only power you have is on YOUR end.

YOU have to win games
YOU have to get butts in the stands
YOU have to get eyeballs on TV

The American and MWC have a lot of potential but they have to get those things done first.

(09-27-2014 09:40 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  Hypothetically the world could end.

According to the Mayans, it already has ended.

They were just talking about their calendar, it was the Archaeologists Scientists that were confused!

would someone please explain why Texas would even consider going into the ACC?

(09-28-2014 08:41 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Exactly.

You can kill french bourgeoisie and take their stuff to make yourself feel better.

You CANT kill a P5 program. You cant force them to play you. You cant force them to respect you.

In other words, you can't coerce them in any way to do what you want.

The only power you have is on YOUR end.

YOU have to win games
YOU have to get butts in the stands
YOU have to get eyeballs on TV

And tell me prince, how were Vandy, KU, IU, Minnesota and the likes allowed in your P5 kingdom. Not by any of those creeds.

(09-26-2014 11:54 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Let us consider this:

1) The ACC goes to 16 teams for all-sports with Texas and Notre Dame.
2) The Big 10 goes to 16 teams for all-sports with Kansas and Oklahoma.
3) The SEC goes to 16 teams for all-sports with East Carolina and West Virginia.
4) The PAC 12 goes to 16 teams for all-sports with Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Kansas State and Baylor.
5) So what happens to the remaining Big 12 teams, Iowa State and TCU? Do they join the Mountain West or the American? Do the best from Mountain West or the American, plus BYU, Iowa State and TCU, merge and form a stronger conference. With the Big 12 gone, do they become P5?

The first three scenarios are plausible. But not #4. I really think that the Pac-12 would rather stay at 12 than expand with the middle tier Big 12 teams.

As a Big Ten fan, I'd love to see the OU/Nebraska rivalry join the Iowa/Wisconsin/Minny triumvirate. Kansas basketball (with Illinois and Wisconsin as rivals) would be exceptional too.

SEC folks...WVU and ECU...if they are your only options with the iron-clad ACC GOR...would you bite? Would Oklahoma State be more appealing than ECU?

These higher ups seem so petty with each other I think the only way ECU gets into the SEC is if the SEC wants to screw over NC and ACC. In this scenario, SEC goes to UNC, State and Duke and get declined by all of them. SEC threatens to add ECU...ACC calls their bluff and SEC takes them. Make no mistake, ECU IS a sleeping giant who just needs a bit of nurturing. SEC would immediately make ECU the top football school anyway you slice it in the state. It would be a blow to the ACC whether they want to admit it or not. It would do no favors for NC recruiting, and VA recruiting. I admit I wear purple glasses sometimes but all of the NC schools would regret it especially NC STATE. If that school had any moxie they would have talked to the SEC during this last round of realignment and took Texas AM's lead. If there was one school that could realistically get into that conference, and would be better for it, it is NC State.

I don't think ECU as it stands has a chance of getting into any conference except the smallest of small chances of getting into SEC with the above scenario and SEC being hell bent on getting into NC. The best thing that can happen from a ECU perspective is no more realignment or exodus from AAC...and maybe BYU joining the conference. ECU's best hope of being in a power conference is if somehow the AAC defeats the insane deficiencies it has vs the P5 and finds a way to force a P6. So to me its slim and none.... at this point ECU can only strive to be the tallest midget. Its a shame because the program and its fans deserve more, especially considering some of the schools that are there with their millions that do so little with it, yet get rewarded. I will always hate on them....that's part of the charm and the swagger of being a Pirate fan, because from time to time, our little pissed off school is going to punch someone in the mouth, despite all their advantages.

(10-02-2014 04:00 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote:  These higher ups seem so petty with each other I think the only way ECU gets into the SEC is if the SEC wants to screw over NC and ACC. In this scenario, SEC goes to UNC, State and Duke and get declined by all of them. SEC threatens to add ECU...ACC calls their bluff and SEC takes them. Make no mistake, ECU IS a sleeping giant who just needs a bit of nurturing. SEC would immediately make ECU the top football school anyway you slice it in the state. It would be a blow to the ACC whether they want to admit it or not. It would do no favors for NC recruiting, and VA recruiting. I admit I wear purple glasses sometimes but all of the NC schools would regret it especially NC STATE. If that school had any moxie they would have talked to the SEC during this last round of realignment and took Texas AM's lead. If there was one school that could realistically get into that conference, and would be better for it, it is NC State.

I don't think ECU as it stands has a chance of getting into any conference except the smallest of small chances of getting into SEC with the above scenario and SEC being hell bent on getting into NC. The best thing that can happen from a ECU perspective is no more realignment or exodus from AAC...and maybe BYU joining the conference. ECU's best hope of being in a power conference is if somehow the AAC defeats the insane deficiencies it has vs the P5 and finds a way to force a P6. So to me its slim and none.... at this point ECU can only strive to be the tallest midget. Its a shame because the program and its fans deserve more, especially considering some of the schools that are there with their millions that do so little with it, yet get rewarded. I will always hate on them....that's part of the charm and the swagger of being a Pirate fan, because from time to time, our little pissed off school is going to punch someone in the mouth, despite all their advantages.

I believe the ACC in general, and its NC schools in particular, would be happy to see the SEC add WVU and ECU. This would add two geographically desirable OOC opponents in a P5 conference. Both of them have strong ties to current ACC members, and would help fill stadiums. Those schools would be competitive without being dominant, and scheduling ECU as an SEC opponent instead of an AAC opponent would boost the entire league's SOS.

But I doubt it will ever come to pass.

(10-02-2014 09:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 04:00 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote:  These higher ups seem so petty with each other I think the only way ECU gets into the SEC is if the SEC wants to screw over NC and ACC. In this scenario, SEC goes to UNC, State and Duke and get declined by all of them. SEC threatens to add ECU...ACC calls their bluff and SEC takes them. Make no mistake, ECU IS a sleeping giant who just needs a bit of nurturing. SEC would immediately make ECU the top football school anyway you slice it in the state. It would be a blow to the ACC whether they want to admit it or not. It would do no favors for NC recruiting, and VA recruiting. I admit I wear purple glasses sometimes but all of the NC schools would regret it especially NC STATE. If that school had any moxie they would have talked to the SEC during this last round of realignment and took Texas AM's lead. If there was one school that could realistically get into that conference, and would be better for it, it is NC State.

I don't think ECU as it stands has a chance of getting into any conference except the smallest of small chances of getting into SEC with the above scenario and SEC being hell bent on getting into NC. The best thing that can happen from a ECU perspective is no more realignment or exodus from AAC...and maybe BYU joining the conference. ECU's best hope of being in a power conference is if somehow the AAC defeats the insane deficiencies it has vs the P5 and finds a way to force a P6. So to me its slim and none.... at this point ECU can only strive to be the tallest midget. Its a shame because the program and its fans deserve more, especially considering some of the schools that are there with their millions that do so little with it, yet get rewarded. I will always hate on them....that's part of the charm and the swagger of being a Pirate fan, because from time to time, our little pissed off school is going to punch someone in the mouth, despite all their advantages.

I believe the ACC in general, and its NC schools in particular, would be happy to see the SEC add WVU and ECU. This would add two geographically desirable OOC opponents in a P5 conference. Both of them have strong ties to current ACC members, and would help fill stadiums. Those schools would be competitive without being dominant, and scheduling ECU as an SEC opponent instead of an AAC opponent would boost the entire league's SOS.

But I doubt it will ever come to pass.

The ACC would love it because they wouldn't have to worry about losing any of their current members to the SEC...