WVU's 2 losses were to top 4 teams, and gave both all they could handle. The Mountaineers are the best 2-2 team in the nation. But that's small solace. I would have rather seen a win or 2 in those games. We had enough chances.

(09-21-2014 10:34 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-20-2014 11:20 PM)Dasville Wrote:  8 more OOC games left against P5 teams. Split and we are well ahead of B1G and probably tied with Big 12.

The thing is that most of the Big 12's power five losses are the middle to bottom teams taking on elite teams from other leagues and almost pulling it off.

OkState-FSU
WV-Alabama
Texas-UCLA
KSU-Auburn

That is 4 of the 6 P5 losses the league has. Not exactly poor showings.

That's a good point about middling Big 12 teams doing pretty well against elite teams from other P5. My system doesn't account for stuff like that.

(09-21-2014 10:52 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU's 2 losses were to top 4 teams, and gave both all they could handle. The Mountaineers are the best 2-2 team in the nation. But that's small solace. I would have rather seen a win or 2 in those games. We had enough chances.

Serious question: How much are you still hanging in there with Holgerson? Is he running out of chances at this point?

From an outsider POV, I just don't see much improvement over his years.

(09-21-2014 11:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 10:34 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-20-2014 11:20 PM)Dasville Wrote:  8 more OOC games left against P5 teams. Split and we are well ahead of B1G and probably tied with Big 12.

The thing is that most of the Big 12's power five losses are the middle to bottom teams taking on elite teams from other leagues and almost pulling it off.

OkState-FSU
WV-Alabama
Texas-UCLA
KSU-Auburn

That is 4 of the 6 P5 losses the league has. Not exactly poor showings.

That's a good point about middling Big 12 teams doing pretty well against elite teams from other P5. My system doesn't account for stuff like that.

I would actually list the Big 12 above the PAC at this point if I HAD to choose. I know you think the PAC is above the Big 12 but the Big 12 has shown some strength. Unfortunately though they havnt pulled off the wins so it is not enough to push them ahead of the pack but I think they definitely show they don't belong behind anyone in that pack at this early point of the season.

(09-21-2014 11:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 10:34 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-20-2014 11:20 PM)Dasville Wrote:  8 more OOC games left against P5 teams. Split and we are well ahead of B1G and probably tied with Big 12.

The thing is that most of the Big 12's power five losses are the middle to bottom teams taking on elite teams from other leagues and almost pulling it off.

OkState-FSU
WV-Alabama
Texas-UCLA
KSU-Auburn

That is 4 of the 6 P5 losses the league has. Not exactly poor showings.

That's a good point about middling Big 12 teams doing pretty well against elite teams from other P5. My system doesn't account for stuff like that.

Yes, but if the big12 middling teams would have beat those elite teams, then the other teams would not be considered elite teams and the big12 teams would not be considered middling teams.

Your formula is fine. Dont overthink it.

It was a great day for your new ACC coastal champions ECU!

(09-21-2014 10:18 AM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  The ACC has always been the worst conference so this isn't shocking.

On a slightly related note... being the home team against a Big Ten team in a non-conference matchup is actually a disadvantage. The road team gets to use their own refs and Big Ten refs favor their own teams.

I'm not going to say the refs are why Syracuse lost the game to Maryland as they made plenty of mistakes themselves and lost by 2 TDs, but the refs took away a touchdown on an awful call which would've gotten Syracuse back into the game.

The same thing happened when Syracuse played Northwestern at home in 2012. Syracuse had a 41-35 lead in the last minute of the game when the Big Ten refs flagged them for a personal foul for hitting the QB out of bounds even though screencaps showed he was well inbounds when he was hit. That made it first and goal for Northwestern instead of 4th and 7.

So basically Big Ten refs are very shady in OOC games.

I see what you mean. Just ask Toledo fans about those extra point calls against Syracuse.

(09-21-2014 12:09 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 11:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 10:34 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-20-2014 11:20 PM)Dasville Wrote:  8 more OOC games left against P5 teams. Split and we are well ahead of B1G and probably tied with Big 12.

The thing is that most of the Big 12's power five losses are the middle to bottom teams taking on elite teams from other leagues and almost pulling it off.

OkState-FSU
WV-Alabama
Texas-UCLA
KSU-Auburn

That is 4 of the 6 P5 losses the league has. Not exactly poor showings.

That's a good point about middling Big 12 teams doing pretty well against elite teams from other P5. My system doesn't account for stuff like that.

I would actually list the Big 12 above the PAC at this point if I HAD to choose. I know you think the PAC is above the Big 12 but the Big 12 has shown some strength. Unfortunately though they havnt pulled off the wins so it is not enough to push them ahead of the pack but I think they definitely show they don't belong behind anyone in that pack at this early point of the season.

So would I H1. The Washington State / Oregon game just concluded my suspicions that the PAC was grossly overrated this year. But, the Ducks will skate on by for now. Every year Oregon is rated top 5 or higher to start the season only to get waxed by L.S.U., stunned by Boise, spanked by Stanford, etc. etc. etc.

The Pac-12 is over-rated.
The Big Ten is awful.
The Big 12 only has two good teams.
The ACC only has FSU.
The SEC is awesome.

Have I summarized 2014's season so far?

All this conference talk is just excessive. Play the season...judge individual teams on their own merit.

(09-21-2014 01:22 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  The Big 12 only has two good teams.

Auburn, Alabama, and FSU probably disagree with you.

(09-21-2014 01:22 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  The Pac-12 is over-rated.
The Big Ten is awful.
The Big 12 only has two good teams.
The ACC only has FSU.
The SEC is awesome.

Have I summarized 2014's season so far?

All this conference talk is just excessive. Play the season...judge individual teams on their own merit.

Almost got it right their. The last line should be "The SEC West is awesome."

(09-21-2014 11:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 10:52 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU's 2 losses were to top 4 teams, and gave both all they could handle. The Mountaineers are the best 2-2 team in the nation. But that's small solace. I would have rather seen a win or 2 in those games. We had enough chances.

Serious question: How much are you still hanging in there with Holgerson? Is he running out of chances at this point?

From an outsider POV, I just don't see much improvement over his years.

Oliver Luck simply said the football team needs to show improvement. IMO they've done that. Dana is going nowhere. His buyout is too large. WVU is still not making a full B12 share. And the Big East buyout made a dent in the pocketbook. So there is no way we will pay a full coaching staff not to coach, and another staff to do so.

Dana has WVU headed in the right direction. It simply took a bit longer than originally expected, mostly due to Bill Stewart (RIP). Stew never recruited a full class, so depth was lacking, and outside of a few stars, there weren't many players on the bench capable of playing at the level needed to compete consistently in the B12.

Last year was a perfect storm of events that made for a horrible season. We didn't have a QB capable of running Dana's system. Ford Childress and Clint Trickett were both in their first year in the system, and both missed spring practice, where they could have learned the system in time for football season. Paul Millard, while a very nice kid, isn't quite good enough to play at this level and lead the team to success. That's why he hasn't won the starting job after 4 years in the program. And both Childress (torn pectoral) and Trickett (rotator and other shoulder damage) were never healthy past the first half of their first start. We didn't have enough good players on the O-line.

All the skill players were in their first year in the system. Look at the difference between last year and this year for Trickett, and WRs Mario Alford and Kevin White. Holgorsen's system may be easy to learn, but executing it at a high level takes time and practice.

WVU will have an easier time transitioning next season. Our backup QB this season will become the starter, and you can bet Crest is soaking up every scrap of knowledge so he can take over. WVU's 2 QB recruits in the 2015 class will be here for spring ball. So he will have a battle on his hands. Replacing the WRs might be a little more difficult. But we have several options on the bench, and a couple of good ones in the next class, at least one of whom will be here for spring practices.

So your worries are groundless. WVU will be just fine with Dana.

(09-21-2014 02:21 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 11:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 10:52 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU's 2 losses were to top 4 teams, and gave both all they could handle. The Mountaineers are the best 2-2 team in the nation. But that's small solace. I would have rather seen a win or 2 in those games. We had enough chances.

Serious question: How much are you still hanging in there with Holgerson? Is he running out of chances at this point?

From an outsider POV, I just don't see much improvement over his years.

Oliver Luck simply said the football team needs to show improvement. IMO they've done that. Dana is going nowhere. His buyout is too large. WVU is still not making a full B12 share. And the Big East buyout made a dent in the pocketbook. So there is no way we will pay a full coaching staff not to coach, and another staff to do so.

Dana has WVU headed in the right direction. It simply took a bit longer than originally expected, mostly due to Bill Stewart (RIP). Stew never recruited a full class, so depth was lacking, and outside of a few stars, there weren't many players on the bench capable of playing at the level needed to compete consistently in the B12.

Last year was a perfect storm of events that made for a horrible season. We didn't have a QB capable of running Dana's system. Ford Childress and Clint Trickett were both in their first year in the system, and both missed spring practice, where they could have learned the system in time for football season. Paul Millard, while a very nice kid, isn't quite good enough to play at this level and lead the team to success. That's why he hasn't won the starting job after 4 years in the program. And both Childress (torn pectoral) and Trickett (rotator and other shoulder damage) were never healthy past the first half of their first start. We didn't have enough good players on the O-line.

All the skill players were in their first year in the system. Look at the difference between last year and this year for Trickett, and WRs Mario Alford and Kevin White. Holgorsen's system may be easy to learn, but executing it at a high level takes time and practice.

WVU will have an easier time transitioning next season. Our backup QB this season will become the starter, and you can bet Crest is soaking up every scrap of knowledge so he can take over. WVU's 2 QB recruits in the 2015 class will be here for spring ball. So he will have a battle on his hands. Replacing the WRs might be a little more difficult. But we have several options on the bench, and a couple of good ones in the next class, at least one of whom will be here for spring practices.

So your worries are groundless. WVU will be just fine with Dana.

Well OK for Dana!

I think at some point WVA needs to be honest and admit Dana blows and he's not the answer....#truthhurts

Personally would like to see WVa in the ACC, but doesn't sound like the Mountaineers want that.

(09-21-2014 01:22 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  The Pac-12 is over-rated.
The Big Ten is awful.
The Big 12 only has two good teams.
The ACC only has FSU.
The SEC is awesome.

Have I summarized 2014's season so far?

All this conference talk is just excessive. Play the season...judge individual teams on their own merit.

EXACTLY!!!!

(09-21-2014 04:37 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I think at some point WVA needs to be honest and admit Dana blows and he's not the answer....#truthhurts

Keep dreaming. All WVU needs is a few defensive line recruits. One of these days, we'll find somebody who can recruit a few.

(09-21-2014 04:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Personally would like to see WVa in the ACC, but doesn't sound like the Mountaineers want that.

The ACC didn't want WVU, and the B12 did. It's as simple as that. Now that WVU is in the B12, we've found it to be a good fit. We're with a bunch of like minded schools, which wouldn't be the case in the ACC.

(09-21-2014 07:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 04:37 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I think at some point WVA needs to be honest and admit Dana blows and he's not the answer....#truthhurts

Keep dreaming. All WVU needs is a few defensive line recruits. One of these days, we'll find somebody who can recruit a few.

(09-21-2014 04:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Personally would like to see WVa in the ACC, but doesn't sound like the Mountaineers want that.

The ACC didn't want WVU, and the B12 did. It's as simple as that. Now that WVU is in the B12, we've found it to be a good fit. We're with a bunch of like minded schools, which wouldn't be the case in the ACC.

Far be it for me to question a WVU fan who thinks the Big 12 is a good fit, but my goodness, the fit would seem to be much better in a conference with traditional or geographic rivals such as Pitt, Syracuse, Maryland*, and Virginia Tech. While Kansas State and Oklahoma State may have the same attitude towards academics and athletics as WVU, that geographical and cultural distance is dramatic.


* I know, MD is in the B1G so that grouping isn't possible anymore either, but still.

The ACC didn't want WVU. It's as simple as that.

BTW, VT is one of the schools that voted against WVU.

(09-21-2014 04:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Personally would like to see WVa in the ACC, but doesn't sound like the Mountaineers want that.

Yes they do, but it's not up to them, it's up to the ACC and the B12.

WVa had ZERO chance in the ACC as long as MD, Va, and Duke were in the ACC because those were three solid blackballs with MD's the be blackest since 1953.

Without MD in the ACC, WVa has only two solid blackballs - Duke and Va, but Pitt and VT would face an existential issue regarding WVa and therefore the Mountaineers would need their blessing. Clemson and FSU would heartily support WVa.

That the first hurdle.

The second hurdle is what will ESPN pay for?

The third hurdle is assuming that the first two hurdle are cleared, does the ACC entertain the idea of a 17th member in order to have 16 for football or would it stay at 15 and split into 3 divisions?

The latter question assumes conferences are allowed to determine their champion as they see fit, even if that means playoff - three division champs and a wild card.

But of course WVa would move if the ACC offered and the B12 said okay.