(09-12-2014 12:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 08:22 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  So basically at different periods of time in the last 25 years, the SEC attempted to lure FSU and VT and failed at both. That's how I read it.

---

For those thinking the B1G had a legit shot at getting Carolina and UVa, please consider this --

Given the alarming demographic shift from the "Rust Belt" to the "South" that:
a) actually was the driving factor to the B1G expansion attempt that yielded Maryland and Rutgers (let that sink in for a moment), and
b) is manifesting itself on the field (B1G players are typically slower than their counterparts from the South)

...who's to say the ACC couldn't lure, say, Ohio State and/or Penn State to join sometime in the next 20 years...

There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

It seems to me that OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State going together to the ACC would mean that the P5 would shrink to a P4, not by having the newest and poorest conference implode but by having the oldest and richest one break up. It's hard to see the circumstances under which that happens. This is what the B1G would be left with:

Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers
Maryland

Now, they could all choose to stay together and tough it out, and their name would once again make sense. But this isn't something a network is going to shell out big bucks for to get its inventory.

This is a doomsday scenario, IMO.

Yes a wildly unrealistic doomsday scenario

(09-12-2014 12:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 08:22 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  So basically at different periods of time in the last 25 years, the SEC attempted to lure FSU and VT and failed at both. That's how I read it.

---

For those thinking the B1G had a legit shot at getting Carolina and UVa, please consider this --

Given the alarming demographic shift from the "Rust Belt" to the "South" that:
a) actually was the driving factor to the B1G expansion attempt that yielded Maryland and Rutgers (let that sink in for a moment), and
b) is manifesting itself on the field (B1G players are typically slower than their counterparts from the South)

...who's to say the ACC couldn't lure, say, Ohio State and/or Penn State to join sometime in the next 20 years...

There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

It seems to me that OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State going together to the ACC would mean that the P5 would shrink to a P4, not by having the newest and poorest conference implode but by having the oldest and richest one break up. It's hard to see the circumstances under which that happens. This is what the B1G would be left with:

Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers
Maryland

Now, they could all choose to stay together and tough it out, and their name would once again make sense. But this isn't something a network is going to shell out big bucks for to get its inventory.

This is a doomsday scenario, IMO.

Remember when Delany said that one reason the Big Ten annexed Maryland and Rutgers was that he was concerned that the Big Ten might one day lose Penn State?

Maybe Delany was really more concerned about Ohio State. OSU is driven to stay on top in football and close to the top in hoops and very competitive in Olympic sports across the board. And for many of those sports, recruiting in southern states is more promising than recruiting in the midwest.

Ohio State played VT last Saturday; Ohio State is nearer to Blacksburg than to Chicago.

Ohio State is also closer to Chapel Hill than Iowa City, and closer to Clemson than Minneapolis.

Doesn't have to be the ACC, necessarily. Ohio is already contiguous to the SEC.

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 08:22 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  So basically at different periods of time in the last 25 years, the SEC attempted to lure FSU and VT and failed at both. That's how I read it.

---

For those thinking the B1G had a legit shot at getting Carolina and UVa, please consider this --

Given the alarming demographic shift from the "Rust Belt" to the "South" that:
a) actually was the driving factor to the B1G expansion attempt that yielded Maryland and Rutgers (let that sink in for a moment), and
b) is manifesting itself on the field (B1G players are typically slower than their counterparts from the South)

...who's to say the ACC couldn't lure, say, Ohio State and/or Penn State to join sometime in the next 20 years...

There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

bearcat -- I can appreciate your post. That said, it would be helpful if you could provide some background as to why it won't happen beyond "It's wishful thinking and not gonna happen". Lots of folks were thinking the ND joining the ACC in any capacity was "wishful" thinking.

I can at least argue that due to the demographic shifts from the Midwest to the South, NC/VA schools have no reason to join a Midwestern league.

However, the South is rich in talent and non-athletic students -- particularly the kind that Urban Meyer needs to compete, and the types of student tOSU needs to recruit.

And now that the ACC is in Kentucky, the contiguous state aspect is in play.

$.02

(09-12-2014 12:55 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 08:22 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  So basically at different periods of time in the last 25 years, the SEC attempted to lure FSU and VT and failed at both. That's how I read it.

---

For those thinking the B1G had a legit shot at getting Carolina and UVa, please consider this --

Given the alarming demographic shift from the "Rust Belt" to the "South" that:
a) actually was the driving factor to the B1G expansion attempt that yielded Maryland and Rutgers (let that sink in for a moment), and
b) is manifesting itself on the field (B1G players are typically slower than their counterparts from the South)

...who's to say the ACC couldn't lure, say, Ohio State and/or Penn State to join sometime in the next 20 years...

There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

bearcat -- I can appreciate your post. That said, it would be helpful if you could provide some background as to why it won't happen beyond "It's wishful thinking and not gonna happen". Lots of folks were thinking the ND joining the ACC in any capacity was "wishful" thinking.

I can at least argue that due to the demographic shifts from the Midwest to the South, NC/VA schools have no reason to join a Midwestern league.

However, the South is rich in talent and non-athletic students -- particularly the kind that Urban Meyer needs to compete, and the types of student tOSU needs to recruit.

And now that the ACC is in Kentucky, the contiguous state aspect is in play.

$.02

This is one reason.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ew-tv-deal

This is another.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...y-earnings

And this would be another.
http://journalstar.com/news/local/educat...002e0.html

Ohio State currently recruits nationwide although the bulk of their recruits are from the Midwest. If you go thru their roster you'll see players from Texas, California, Georgia, Florida, etc...

Now why would Ohio State abandon their current conference, the money that conference generates, and the traditional rivalries they have in that conference to go to the ACC?

(09-12-2014 12:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

It seems to me that OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State going together to the ACC would mean that the P5 would shrink to a P4, not by having the newest and poorest conference implode but by having the oldest and richest one break up. It's hard to see the circumstances under which that happens. This is what the B1G would be left with:

Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers
Maryland

Now, they could all choose to stay together and tough it out, and their name would once again make sense. But this isn't something a network is going to shell out big bucks for to get its inventory.

This is a doomsday scenario, IMO.

Remember when Delany said that one reason the Big Ten annexed Maryland and Rutgers was that he was concerned that the Big Ten might one day lose Penn State?

Maybe Delany was really more concerned about Ohio State. OSU is driven to stay on top in football and close to the top in hoops and very competitive in Olympic sports across the board. And for many of those sports, recruiting in southern states is more promising than recruiting in the midwest.

Ohio State played VT last Saturday; Ohio State is nearer to Blacksburg than to Chicago.

Ohio State is also closer to Chapel Hill than Iowa City, and closer to Clemson than Minneapolis.

Doesn't have to be the ACC, necessarily. Ohio is already contiguous to the SEC.

I may have inadvertently undercut my own argument that this is a doomsday scenario when I listed the remaining B1G teams. In a true doomsday scenario, a lot of those schools would have already dropped football, or at least dropped out of the scholarship race, for economic reasons. For the same reasons, a number of ACC schools would have done likewise.

So the ACC those schools might go to isn't today's ACC. It's a drastically stripped down version, playing in an NCAA division half the size of today's FBS. In such a climate, I'm not sure it even makes sense to talk in terms of conferences. It would be a whole new world.

(09-12-2014 05:51 AM)krup Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 03:57 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It was serious enough that SEC conference representatives met with Virginia Tech folks at the swank hotel in West Virginia that once served as a presidential bomb shelter in the 60's. I do know that.

As far as the GOR goes 10 years isn't very long, we still don't know all the details with regard to F.S.U., the promise of a network etc., and since ESPN holds the rights they could still negotiate a lot of things with regards to valuations.

I don't think anything is likely to happen with the ACC, but truly you never know. I think it is much more likely that if we move to a P4 arrangement that it will be the Big 12 on the menu. But then again you never know. Twelve well placed schools all making a lot more money with three conferences waiting for the opportunity and it is not out of the realm of possibility. It just depends on what profits the Mouse the most.

Right now they have a great basketball conference, a great football conference, and the best of the Big 12 minus T3 for Oklahoma. They may be quite happy with just that. We'll see.

When I looked at the "final" reshuffling to get down to a P4, I used to think that the presence of two football "kings" such as Texas and Oklahoma gave the B12 a big advantage over the ACC.

However, when you see how much that ESPN has invested in the SEC and ACC, then look back at what they have already done to keep the ACC together (and add in that they have some control over Texas because of the LHN) it really does seem that an eventual ESPN-orchestrated breakup of the B12 is more likely.

And how is the Big XII going to break up? Its basically the TEXAS conference....you can't get rid of the Big XII while they are still in it.

I think we're headed for an 8 team playoff, and if that happens, there will always be at least 5

The ACC has the power to withstand huge raids, because they can backfill like nothing else...not only that, but having Notre Dame in their corner is more powerful than people think. ND isn't going anywhere....certainly not to the BIG 10. No one is going to shut the door on ND either....

Furthermore.....the PAC 12 has no good expansion candidates. It's basically Texas or bust. If they got desperate enough, they could try and get UTSA and Kansas....but that's some heavy desperation there.

I think we're basically stuck with a P5, and that will eventually lead to an 8 team playoff

(09-12-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

It seems to me that OSU, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State going together to the ACC would mean that the P5 would shrink to a P4, not by having the newest and poorest conference implode but by having the oldest and richest one break up. It's hard to see the circumstances under which that happens. This is what the B1G would be left with:

Minnesota
Iowa
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers
Maryland

Now, they could all choose to stay together and tough it out, and their name would once again make sense. But this isn't something a network is going to shell out big bucks for to get its inventory.

This is a doomsday scenario, IMO.

Remember when Delany said that one reason the Big Ten annexed Maryland and Rutgers was that he was concerned that the Big Ten might one day lose Penn State?

Maybe Delany was really more concerned about Ohio State. OSU is driven to stay on top in football and close to the top in hoops and very competitive in Olympic sports across the board. And for many of those sports, recruiting in southern states is more promising than recruiting in the midwest.

Ohio State played VT last Saturday; Ohio State is nearer to Blacksburg than to Chicago.

Ohio State is also closer to Chapel Hill than Iowa City, and closer to Clemson than Minneapolis.

Doesn't have to be the ACC, necessarily. Ohio is already contiguous to the SEC.

I may have inadvertently undercut my own argument that this is a doomsday scenario when I listed the remaining B1G teams. In a true doomsday scenario, a lot of those schools would have already dropped football, or at least dropped out of the scholarship race, for economic reasons. For the same reasons, a number of ACC schools would have done likewise.

So the ACC those schools might go to isn't today's ACC. It's a drastically stripped down version, playing in an NCAA division half the size of today's FBS. In such a climate, I'm not sure it even makes sense to talk in terms of conferences. It would be a whole new world.

Not sure about the stripped down part. There's a tension between maximizing revenue in a league of big names versus the big names needing lesser teams to beat consistently in order to maintain their status. As I said awhile back on this board, Ohio State football doesn't need Minnesota, but they need a few teams they can beat 95% of the time (which is their winning percentage vs. Minnesota from 1970-present) in order for the Buckeyes to consistently have the lopsided W-L record that their fans expect.

(09-12-2014 01:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:55 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

bearcat -- I can appreciate your post. That said, it would be helpful if you could provide some background as to why it won't happen beyond "It's wishful thinking and not gonna happen". Lots of folks were thinking the ND joining the ACC in any capacity was "wishful" thinking.

I can at least argue that due to the demographic shifts from the Midwest to the South, NC/VA schools have no reason to join a Midwestern league.

However, the South is rich in talent and non-athletic students -- particularly the kind that Urban Meyer needs to compete, and the types of student tOSU needs to recruit.

And now that the ACC is in Kentucky, the contiguous state aspect is in play.

$.02

This is one reason.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ew-tv-deal

This is another.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...y-earnings

And this would be another.
http://journalstar.com/news/local/educat...002e0.html

Ohio State currently recruits nationwide although the bulk of their recruits are from the Midwest. If you go thru their roster you'll see players from Texas, California, Georgia, Florida, etc...

Now why would Ohio State abandon their current conference, the money that conference generates, and the traditional rivalries they have in that conference to go to the ACC?

ya, Ohio State isn't going to abandon the money....there is also an academic brotherhood among the Big 10. They are AAU (except Nebraska)

Ohio State should have left though....a long time ago. When the ACC invited FSU, it would have been interesting if they would have made a pitch to the Buckeyes....we might be living in a different college football landscape

I think the only way Ohio State "splits" is if the Big 10 bites off more than they can chew, and the conference splits up.....I'm sure Ohio State would rather be in an eastern arrangement, as opposed to being allied with Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota....

VA/NC is where it stops. No West Virginia. Only States that fought for the confederacy are allowed to play in the SEC. Its kinda a trend, people were like why mizz, well there is your answer.

NC and VA only 2 confederate states not a part os the SEC.

*(missouri exiled gov. fought for C.S.A., but still part of US congress)
*Similar for Kentucky

(09-12-2014 02:28 PM)Piratelife4me Wrote:  VA/NC is where it stops. No West Virginia. Only States that fought for the confederacy are allowed to play in the SEC. Its kinda a trend, people were like why mizz, well there is your answer.

NC and VA only 2 confederate states not a part os the SEC.

*(missouri exiled gov. fought for C.S.A., but still part of US congress)
*Similar for Kentucky

Personally, I'd like to see Oklahoma added to the SEC....

(09-12-2014 02:23 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 01:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:55 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

bearcat -- I can appreciate your post. That said, it would be helpful if you could provide some background as to why it won't happen beyond "It's wishful thinking and not gonna happen". Lots of folks were thinking the ND joining the ACC in any capacity was "wishful" thinking.

I can at least argue that due to the demographic shifts from the Midwest to the South, NC/VA schools have no reason to join a Midwestern league.

However, the South is rich in talent and non-athletic students -- particularly the kind that Urban Meyer needs to compete, and the types of student tOSU needs to recruit.

And now that the ACC is in Kentucky, the contiguous state aspect is in play.

$.02

This is one reason.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ew-tv-deal

This is another.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...y-earnings

And this would be another.
http://journalstar.com/news/local/educat...002e0.html

Ohio State currently recruits nationwide although the bulk of their recruits are from the Midwest. If you go thru their roster you'll see players from Texas, California, Georgia, Florida, etc...

Now why would Ohio State abandon their current conference, the money that conference generates, and the traditional rivalries they have in that conference to go to the ACC?

ya, Ohio State isn't going to abandon the money....there is also an academic brotherhood among the Big 10. They are AAU (except Nebraska)

Ohio State should have left though....a long time ago. When the ACC invited FSU, it would have been interesting if they would have made a pitch to the Buckeyes....we might be living in a different college football landscape

I think the only way Ohio State "splits" is if the Big 10 bites off more than they can chew, and the conference splits up.....I'm sure Ohio State would rather be in an eastern arrangement, as opposed to being allied with Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota....

I seriously doubt Ohio State would have had any interest in leaving the B1G then either.

You can't look at this like a conference commissioner would. You have to think in terms of property rights for it to make any sense. And even then you have to understand that it is about the options on the table. Which P5 conferences broadcast rights are 100% owned by a single entity? There are two, the ACC by ESPN and the PAC by themselves. The PAC essentially leases its television rights. You have to ask yourself this question. Why are those the only two totally controlled properties? The three conferences that saturate their television market the best are the SEC, the Big 12, and the Big 10. Market saturation is important to advertising revenue. The two least saturated markets are the PAC followed by the ACC. The PAC can become more valuable if they acquire a portion of the rabid fan bases in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas (basketball), and perhaps Iowa although I would't call them rabid they do add over 3 million viewers. Together those are markets that would add 34 million viewers. Of those properties ESPN has the T3 rights to Texas and Kansas and part of the T1 rights to each of the 4.

When Jim Delany first announced the formation of the Big 10 network it had distribution problems. It also sent shock waves through Bristol. The two seem to go hand in hand with networks intended to be self owned by conferences, a point not lost on Slive which is why he was all in with the Mouse to start with (although in theory the self owned way should be preferred). When the Big East turned down the ESPN TV offer a few years back alarms went off at ESPN. Delany needs markets for his venture and the Big East is getting ballsy!

I believe ESPN was interested in owning the ACC 100% initially because it was leverage against a healthy and steadily growing stronger SEC. By holding onto Clemson and Florida State and keeping the states of Virginia and North Carolina in house ESPN could leverage both the SEC and Big 10. Why else buy 100% of an unsaturated property that had attendance issues % wise by comparison to the Big 10 and SEC? When the realization that the Big 10 could do business with Big East teams hit the ESPN consciousness they sprang into action taking over period of time the prime Big East properties and adding them to the only stockpile of 100% owned college property that was both undervalued, and now under their control underpaid for the growth in popularity of a sport highly popular at a time when the NFL was moving toward capitalizing more of its own property. Hence the Mouse knew that the value of college football would increase and the current payouts indicate that the trend is still peaking. ESPN also knew the order in which the contracts would be negotiated. The order of play was strategically important to keeping their inventory undervalued to the interested potential predators.

So now we have an undervalued product, highly sought for its markets, of no particular high content value outside of basketball which is only 15% of the sports market in profits, and 100% controlled by ESPN. Enter the Texahoma offer. The alarms sounded again. Just as the Big East was valuable to the Big 10 and certain ACC properties valuable to either the SEC or the SEC and Big 10 jointly, the ownership of Texas rights and Kansas rights essentially places the Big 10 in a position of having to go through the Mouse to gain markets and brands they might want. But it also gave ESPN full leverage over the PAC for expansion thereby making them the absolute leverage broker for all of college football's P5 realignment moves. FOX joined in the rescue of the Big 12 because that was the only real stake they had potentially in the college football game outside of the BTN. Neither FOX nor ESPN wanted a self owned PAC experiencing distributions problems (imagine that) to gain free access to such valuable property.

That is why all of the popular theories on who goes where and why are out the window. The GOR's were slammed on by ESPN's recommendation so that everyone could absorb the magnitude of their importance and to realize their potential through expansion.

So here we sit. If the PAC wants Texas and other Big 12 properties they are going to have to sell a % of their network to get them. If Delany wants more markets in New England and into the Southern Beltway he is going to have to do business on Big 10 property rights with ESPN. If Delany doesn't deal, or goes all in with FOX his options will be very limited, perhaps UConn is it. If he doesn't deal ESPN can create a joint market for the ACC and SEC and dominate both the basketball season and football seasons with their distribution and hype. If Delany does deal he can acquire the properties that will maximize his product (really basketball more than football) in a basketball loving highly populated area. If this happens then the Mouse has can deal its other properties, that would be more valuable to the SECN, which is also profitable to them, and to Texas and the Big 12, if the PAC refuses to play ball or Texas truly balks at going West. Almost all of the cards except Oklahoma which is a small market state, but has a strong national brand following, are in the hands of ESPN.

Ten years is nothing in the sports world when compared to working out details that will change the landscape and structure of the game for the next half century. More realignment is coming, but how it happens just depends on what profits ESPN the most. They can hold and grow, or deal and make more. We'll see.

(09-12-2014 01:56 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  That football first mentality has taken them far.

The only people that bring up academics are those who suck at football.

The only people who decry the importance of academics in these decisions are those who suck at school.

If the SEC want in Virginia and North Carolina, the only available schools to them are East Carolina, Old Dominion or William and Mary. Or they could add East Carolina and West Virginia!

(09-12-2014 09:49 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 01:28 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If VT was the top mark then that tells us that the SEC wasn't looking first and foremost for the best Academic grabs possible. Football program quality matters first and foremost. Nothing against Tech but they aren't Virginia or North Carolina.

But H... you could make the same case against the B1G for grabbing Nebraska. What was the priority there? It's about money in all conferences, sorry to say.

Absolutely. You will get no argument from me there Medic. I made that statement for a particular reason and I think you are privy to the reason why. This has been a long enduring discussion between us and a few others and VT was a major part of it in terms of where in the pecking order they are for the SEC and what the SEC desires most out of possible expansion candidates.

If it is football program prowess and culture similarities first, then that brings some other programs to the forefront that might otherwise get snubbed by some of you SEC guys.

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 08:22 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  So basically at different periods of time in the last 25 years, the SEC attempted to lure FSU and VT and failed at both. That's how I read it.

---

For those thinking the B1G had a legit shot at getting Carolina and UVa, please consider this --

Given the alarming demographic shift from the "Rust Belt" to the "South" that:
a) actually was the driving factor to the B1G expansion attempt that yielded Maryland and Rutgers (let that sink in for a moment), and
b) is manifesting itself on the field (B1G players are typically slower than their counterparts from the South)

...who's to say the ACC couldn't lure, say, Ohio State and/or Penn State to join sometime in the next 20 years...

There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

http://www.bcinterruption.com/boston-col...-2023-2024

BC does have a home & home with Ohio St. in 2023 & 2024.

(09-12-2014 04:13 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  The only people who decry the importance of academics in these decisions are those who suck at school.

Of course this was said by a sub-par football school with an above average academic reputation. Thank you for proving my point.

(09-12-2014 12:55 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 12:15 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 11:02 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-12-2014 08:22 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  So basically at different periods of time in the last 25 years, the SEC attempted to lure FSU and VT and failed at both. That's how I read it.

---

For those thinking the B1G had a legit shot at getting Carolina and UVa, please consider this --

Given the alarming demographic shift from the "Rust Belt" to the "South" that:
a) actually was the driving factor to the B1G expansion attempt that yielded Maryland and Rutgers (let that sink in for a moment), and
b) is manifesting itself on the field (B1G players are typically slower than their counterparts from the South)

...who's to say the ACC couldn't lure, say, Ohio State and/or Penn State to join sometime in the next 20 years...

There would be a ton of TV value, in terms of $$$ per school, in a conference that has all of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, and Duke, and it's pretty reasonable geographically. There are essentially two tugs-of-war going on there:

(1) The VA/NC group being pulled north toward the Big Ten, or south toward the SEC, or staying put;

(2) OSU/UM/MSU/PSU either staying with the upper midwest core of the Big Ten or being pulled south toward where the population and football talent have been moving. Will the mountain come to them, or will they go to the mountain?

Ah.. a kindred spirit, you are.

1) With respect to the demographic shift, VA/NC would hurt themselves by moving "north", and likely "deep south". The ACC footprint is sitting on top of all the demographics right now.

And, with ND's membership, they have a left foot in Chicago.

2) All it would take is Ohio State and the TV contract would swell
I wouldn't put it past Notre Dame to do some "private" recruiting when they and Ohio State play in a few years down the road.
If you ever see Ohio State announce a home-and-home series with either Duke or Wake Forest (or even Boston College), then keep a look out for something...

Ohio State leaving the Big 10 to go to the ACC is wishful thinking at best. Not going to happen.

bearcat -- I can appreciate your post. That said, it would be helpful if you could provide some background as to why it won't happen beyond "It's wishful thinking and not gonna happen". Lots of folks were thinking the ND joining the ACC in any capacity was "wishful" thinking.

I can at least argue that due to the demographic shifts from the Midwest to the South, NC/VA schools have no reason to join a Midwestern league.

However, the South is rich in talent and non-athletic students -- particularly the kind that Urban Meyer needs to compete, and the types of student tOSU needs to recruit.

And now that the ACC is in Kentucky, the contiguous state aspect is in play.

$.02

I can see interest on the part of UVA to want to B1G with the idea of playing in an easier football conference where it might have a recruiting advantage in.

Ohio St to the ACC idea is happening via the B1G expanding into the Mid Atlantic region, IMO.

(09-12-2014 02:28 PM)Piratelife4me Wrote:  VA/NC is where it stops. No West Virginia. Only States that fought for the confederacy are allowed to play in the SEC. Its kinda a trend, people were like why mizz, well there is your answer.

NC and VA only 2 confederate states not a part os the SEC.

*(missouri exiled gov. fought for C.S.A., but still part of US congress)
*Similar for Kentucky

And for the history footnote here, the states of Missouri and Kentucky had a star on the Confederate flag. As a Mo native I know that the Missouri government had plans to secede and the federal arsenal in St Louis marched to the state capitol and ousted the elected government. No political feelings here... just saying it is history. Realistically the state was severely divided. Most citizens had both flags, depending on which army was marching down the street in front of their house. My two sets of grandparents lived in separate counties which took turns burning each others' courthouses. Lots of very nasty vigilante stuff.

It's just mind-boggling to think that the Flags of N. Carolina & Va. want to be in the Big-10. I mean, people who are telling themselves this are just not being realistic.

If the ACC comes apart the SEC should offer UVa/VT & UNC/Duke immediately. Then Espn can put together an eastern/southern package for the Big-12 with the rest.

I just don't see any of the southern members of the ACC being interested in competing in the frozen north. Big can go after Cuse/UConn...