(09-04-2014 02:59 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Jose Zamora sounds Hispanic.
Joe Zamora also sounds Hispanic.

What's the point of this?

Cali Cat is a troll. Go read some of his anti-ECU rants.

I don't even believe it.

(09-04-2014 03:06 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  I don't even believe it.

Huffington post makes the Weekly World News look legit.

(09-04-2014 03:20 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 03:06 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  I don't even believe it.

Huffington post makes the Weekly World News look legit.

(09-04-2014 02:59 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Jose Zamora sounds Hispanic.
Joe Zamora also sounds Hispanic.

What's the point of this?

Most likely applications to businesses that require a degree, then places like McDonalds and Taco Tico after the name change.

(09-04-2014 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  It's not hispanic this way, more Greek.

Sorry... It's actually Spanish... from the town of Zamora in Spain.

Quote:See, he said "we all do it all the time". So whether he's a lib or a con, he believes we all do it. And yes we do.

The fact that you agree with his opinion doesn't mean that the rest of us missed his point... Neither does the fact that he says he does it himself. We obviously GOT his point, and disagree with it. NOT that people's names give hints into their background... of course they do... but that racism against Hispanics is so rampant that he went from zero responses to dozens simply by changing his first name from Jose to Joe.

And the obvious point YOU missed is that someone so racist as to not want to hire Jose, but willing to talk to Joe... STILL wouldn't talk to someone named Zamora. That's why we are so suspicious of the claim.

As to the first. Hispanic refers to an ancestry that has roots in Spain. Or even Portugese for that matter. But I know what the point was. I'm hispanic and I've gone through that gauntlet. I know what the hullabaloo's all about, I've lived it. That's why I was subtlely making fun of someones White Victimization thread a few threads away.

(09-04-2014 04:55 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  As to the first. Hispanic refers to an ancestry that has roots in Spain. Or even Portugese for that matter.

Right... and Zamora is a medieval town in Spain... Someone with the name Zamora is ostensibly 'from that region'. There is no town or region of Zamora in Greece, nor does the word mean something in Greek... so why did you say it wasn't hispanic... more Greek?

Quote:But I know what the point was. I'm hispanic and I've gone through that gauntlet. I know what the hullabaloo's all about, I've lived it. That's why I was subtlely making fun of someones White Victimization thread a few threads away.

As I said... You agree with his point. The rest of us think he is grossly overstating reality in an effort to MAKE that point. I suspect that either things didn't actually happen as dramatically as he says, or he strategically applied to 'certain' types of jobs under Jose (like directly with large employers, who rarely respond to the applications) and then with 'staffing companies' under Joe... who 'fill up your inbox' (just as he described) with spam and lists of available jobs, but don't actually get you any closer to a job.

The point he is trying to make is NOT that people notice the ethnicity of names, but that racism against his name is so rampant that he went from zero to a ton with one letter change... Because of his obviously ethnic last name, the change he claims to be making (removing evidence of his ethnicity) is dubious on its face.

In no way does that deny that it EVERY happens, or even happens more often that most would like for it to... it merely denies that it is as rampant as the headline implies... and your personal experience doesn't change this.

Yes... Joe is FAR more 'American' than Jose... as is George than Gunnar or Steven than Sven... And there ARE certainly people and jobs where sounding ethnic works against you... and as a result... if he had claimed a 10-25% increase, I would have probably said 'okay'. Of course, there are all sorts of jobs where being bi-lingual with Spanish is a requirement... and Jose Zamora is far more likely to be bi-lingual Spanish than Gunnar Sorensen... but I digress... maybe he isn't bilingual at all and Gunnar is... but regardless... a 10-25% increase isn't what he (or the editor) is trying to imply by the retelling of his experience.

You misunderstood me Ham. I used the "new" name of Zam to point out that perhaps he'd have a better chance at getting a job if it "sounded" Greek. As for there being a town in Spain with the name of Zamora there also is a town in Spain with my surname. I don't claim pureblood Spanish but that's where my antecedents originated from. As such I am hispanic.

This is the way discussions should take place. Live and learn children.

(09-04-2014 05:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You misunderstood me Ham. I used the "new" name of Zam to point out that perhaps he'd have a better chance at getting a job if it "sounded" Greek. As for there being a town in Spain with the name of Zamora there also is a town in Spain with my surname. I don't claim pureblood Spanish but that's where my antecedents originated from. As such I am hispanic.

Sorry for misunderstanding you. That sometimes happens on these forums. My apology

I wonder what would have happened if he changed his name from Jose to Jesus?

(09-04-2014 01:00 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 12:59 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  Looks like a nerve was touched...

What did someone mention "gay"?

Well, in an earlier post someone mentioned *****. You know that UofMemphis reacts like Pavlov's dog when that subject is brought up.

There is precedent for the claim made in the article of the OP. A black woman also tried this but changed her name completely on a job hiring profile.

As someone that has hired well over 500 men and women over the last 30 years....I will be very honest and admit that "names" absolutely tell a HR person about you. I don't give a schit what laws you implement against discrimination?....If your name is ethnic in nature?...your application can find it's way to the bottom of a pile by a bigoted HR manager.

I say this as a word of advice to any parent. Don't name your child some crazy ass name. Keep it simple. Nothing wrong with John or Joe or Sam or Dave...ect..ect..ect. Lemongello or Orangello may sound cute?...but it could harm them later one in life.

I personally think it is horrible to judge someone on the basis of anything but their qualifications when applying for a job and I don't do it...but...If you think for a second that I am in the majority? You are a fool.

Thank you!!! That was the point of this thread. Too many people on this board truly live in an alternate universe. They consume themselves in the few stories of their worst fears and become obsessed. Step in to reality friends!!!!!!!

(09-05-2014 12:07 AM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  Thank you!!! That was the point of this thread. Too many people on this board truly live in an alternate universe. They consume themselves in the few stories of their worst fears and become obsessed. Step in to reality friends!!!!!!!

...and...Until the paradigm changes with time?....Do your offspring a favor and give them and generic first name. Hell....I gave my daughter a name that was gender neutral. Don't shackle them with a moniker that allows a bigot to be able to know who they are before they even meet them.

You can have a creative name without it being obvious or weird. Beyonce or Aaliyah is not exactly a name you hear every day but it's not ethnic either.

(09-04-2014 10:54 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  As someone that has hired well over 500 men and women over the last 30 years....I will be very honest and admit that "names" absolutely tell a HR person about you. I don't give a schit what laws you implement against discrimination?....If your name is ethnic in nature?...your application can find it's way to the bottom of a pile by a bigoted HR manager.

I say this as a word of advice to any parent. Don't name your child some crazy ass name. Keep it simple. Nothing wrong with John or Joe or Sam or Dave...ect..ect..ect. Lemongello or Orangello may sound cute?...but it could harm them later one in life.

I personally think it is horrible to judge someone on the basis of anything but their qualifications when applying for a job and I don't do it...but...If you think for a second that I am in the majority? You are a fool.

(09-05-2014 12:07 AM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  Thank you!!! That was the point of this thread. Too many people on this board truly live in an alternate universe. They consume themselves in the few stories of their worst fears and become obsessed. Step in to reality friends!!!!!!!

Once again, YOU are the ones who missed the point and is absorbed in the alternate universe... The one described by Jose Zamora.

Joe Zamora is no less ethnic than Jose Zamora... so the man not only lied on his resume (which I don't really care about because it is essentially a nickname)... but I believe is lying about his experience, which I DO care about. You believe his lies.

On the contrary, I absolutely believe Fo's comments.... but it isn't limited to Jose and Kofi. Sven Høiby is far more ethnic than Stan Hobby (changed 3 letters). As Fo notes, in America, many people are most comfortable with American sounding names... and in Norway they are most comfortable with Norwegian sounding names, and in Sudan, Sudanese sounding names... which is why Raj's cousin Sanji is 'Dave' from AT&T customer service. This is especially true if they are hard for Americans to pronounce. In general, people are uncomfortable using people's names if they think they are mispronouncing them and using someone's name is important to building relationships. Of course, some jobs LIKE 'foriegn' sounding people and names. If I'm a hiring manager sifting through 500 resume's, yes, all other things being equal, it could matter... depending on the job description and duties... In MANY cultures, the name means far more than it does in the US. We are a bit uninformed about most names and their origins... so while we might know that Patterson comes from the UK, The British know which counties it generally comes from. Americans associate far less with names than most countries... because almost EVERYONE here came from somewhere else.

But that isn't Jose's point here... no matter how hard you want it to be so. As I said, if he had claimed a 25% increase in the responses, I'd have agreed with you... but he implied he went from essentially zero to having a full mailbox.

It NEVER helps someone's case to so grossly overstate their position so as to make it unbelievable. If you are right and that was his point, then he is a fool because a) it is pedantic and b) he failed to make it... miserably.

(09-05-2014 12:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 10:54 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  As someone that has hired well over 500 men and women over the last 30 years....I will be very honest and admit that "names" absolutely tell a HR person about you. I don't give a schit what laws you implement against discrimination?....If your name is ethnic in nature?...your application can find it's way to the bottom of a pile by a bigoted HR manager.

I say this as a word of advice to any parent. Don't name your child some crazy ass name. Keep it simple. Nothing wrong with John or Joe or Sam or Dave...ect..ect..ect. Lemongello or Orangello may sound cute?...but it could harm them later one in life.

I personally think it is horrible to judge someone on the basis of anything but their qualifications when applying for a job and I don't do it...but...If you think for a second that I am in the majority? You are a fool.

(09-05-2014 12:07 AM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  Thank you!!! That was the point of this thread. Too many people on this board truly live in an alternate universe. They consume themselves in the few stories of their worst fears and become obsessed. Step in to reality friends!!!!!!!

Once again, YOU are the ones who missed the point and is absorbed in the alternate universe... The one described by Jose Zamora.

Joe Zamora is no less ethnic than Jose Zamora... so the man not only lied on his resume (which I don't really care about because it is essentially a nickname)... but I believe is lying about his experience, which I DO care about. You believe his lies.

On the contrary, I absolutely believe Fo's comments.... but it isn't limited to Jose and Kofi. Sven Høiby is far more ethnic than Stan Hobby (changed 3 letters). As Fo notes, in America, many people are most comfortable with American sounding names... and in Norway they are most comfortable with Norwegian sounding names, and in Sudan, Sudanese sounding names... which is why Raj's cousin Sanji is 'Dave' from AT&T customer service. This is especially true if they are hard for Americans to pronounce. In general, people are uncomfortable using people's names if they think they are mispronouncing them and using someone's name is important to building relationships. Of course, some jobs LIKE 'foriegn' sounding people and names. If I'm a hiring manager sifting through 500 resume's, yes, all other things being equal, it could matter... depending on the job description and duties... In MANY cultures, the name means far more than it does in the US. We are a bit uninformed about most names and their origins... so while we might know that Patterson comes from the UK, The British know which counties it generally comes from. Americans associate far less with names than most countries... because almost EVERYONE here came from somewhere else.

But that isn't Jose's point here... no matter how hard you want it to be so. As I said, if he had claimed a 25% increase in the responses, I'd have agreed with you... but he implied he went from essentially zero to having a full mailbox.

It NEVER helps someone's case to so grossly overstate their position so as to make it unbelievable. If you are right and that was his point, then he is a fool because a) it is pedantic and b) he failed to make it... miserably.

I agree with your assessment Ham. There is very little difference in Jose and Joe Zamora. I take the entire story with a grain of salt.
My comment was shaped from experience in HR. The bigotry I relayed is no way universal...but...I can without any hesitation say it happens.

The exact same thing happened to my friend in AZ. Her name is "Caro" couldn't get a job. She changed it to Carol. Got a job within a week.

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