(08-22-2014 07:03 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  Question: If the Sun Belt is not pressed in getting to 12 schools and hosting a championship game, then why did they extend Idaho and NMSU lifelines?

Some could say it was because of Benson's familiarity with them, but the SBC did not owe them anything especially since they left the SBC on their own. Plus the addition of NMSU as a football-only invite does not seem to be a power-move considering that their best sport is in basketball.

I think it came down to knowing that we might lose a few more schools and needed them to guarantee scheduling.

(08-19-2014 10:41 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Liberty is doing everything in their power to try and prove to the SBC that they would be a perfect addition.

I'm not near as negative on them as some on here are...but you have to give them credit for trying no matter how it works out.

Liberty isn't doing everything in their power to prove that they'd be a perfect addition. Staver and Barber are still the Dean/Assoc. Deans at their law school and still making outrageous comments. They still discriminate in hiring.

When they start working on those items, I'll know they are serious.

As far as the football goes, there's still not much there yet.

Baylor and Liberty have more in common than most people realize.

Enrollment figures are comparable as well. Liberty's campus enrolment is 13,500. I believe Baylor has 15,000. Liberty expects 16,000 soon.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/V...TE=DEFAULT

I have to laugh heartily when people use analogies to compare us to Westboro Baptist. Do we have some rules and regs....sure, but there are even MORE conservative schools out there that make us look like a couch burning West Virginia campus by comparison, and even THOSE schools have nothing on Westboro Baptist. On a board full of "experts" it is hard to take some of these comments seriously.

(08-22-2014 08:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-19-2014 10:41 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Liberty is doing everything in their power to try and prove to the SBC that they would be a perfect addition.

I'm not near as negative on them as some on here are...but you have to give them credit for trying no matter how it works out.

Liberty isn't doing everything in their power to prove that they'd be a perfect addition. Staver and Barber are still the Dean/Assoc. Deans at their law school and still making outrageous comments. They still discriminate in hiring.

When they start working on those items, I'll know they are serious.

As far as the football goes, there's still not much there yet.

We have debated the hiring situation ad nauseam. Just as the DNC won't hire outspoken Tea Party conservatives, so Liberty won't hire outspoken atheists. If you cannot understand that you have never led or even been strongly involved in an organization with a strong mission, with core values that must be upheld to protect culture.

As for Staver and Barber, many here agree with you, and as more and more of the red-blooded traditional Republicans are replaced by students that lean more Libertarian, that number will grow.

And finally in regards to football, I have no rebuttal there. We need to win and do it now. I do think our best days are ahead of us.

Are we back to talking about Liberty again?

They were denied... They won't even be a consideration at best until the end of the season (if at all).

(08-22-2014 07:40 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 07:07 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 06:50 AM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  I think C-USA comes calling. With JMU out of the picture, the Virginian Pilot newspaper reported that ODU was lobbying for us to be their travel partner. I think Liberty prefers the Sun Belt footprint for recruiting though. Heard APP State also wanted us as travel partner. Time will tell.

CUSA is full so the only ticket in town is at the SBC. It wouldn't surprise me if Liberty got another look but I would like to see the NCAA give them a wavier to move up as an independent. Liberty is one of the few schools in the country that could take that route IMHO.

Agreed... I feel that Liberty is an independent school trying to "fit in" with other schools to join a conference...

Falwell, Jr.'s trips to Ark State and UL-L was just to deliver his "Hey, we're just like you" speech. At the end of the day, it still boiled down to a private, Christian-based school trying to link up with public, non-religious universities.

Independence in football does not work unless you have a conference home for your Olympic sports.

Could you not leave your Olympic sports in the Big South and make the move as an independent if the NCAA granted you a wavier to do so?

All the talk about how financially capable LU is actually hurts them in regards to SB membership, not helps. Why would we want to add a U that has a helluva lot more money than we do, and is not subject to the same constraints and interference that we are from State budget processes? Go independent, leave the SB alone.

(08-22-2014 10:00 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 07:40 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 07:07 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 06:50 AM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  I think C-USA comes calling. With JMU out of the picture, the Virginian Pilot newspaper reported that ODU was lobbying for us to be their travel partner. I think Liberty prefers the Sun Belt footprint for recruiting though. Heard APP State also wanted us as travel partner. Time will tell.

CUSA is full so the only ticket in town is at the SBC. It wouldn't surprise me if Liberty got another look but I would like to see the NCAA give them a wavier to move up as an independent. Liberty is one of the few schools in the country that could take that route IMHO.

Agreed... I feel that Liberty is an independent school trying to "fit in" with other schools to join a conference...

Falwell, Jr.'s trips to Ark State and UL-L was just to deliver his "Hey, we're just like you" speech. At the end of the day, it still boiled down to a private, Christian-based school trying to link up with public, non-religious universities.

Independence in football does not work unless you have a conference home for your Olympic sports.

Could you not leave your Olympic sports in the Big South and make the move as an independent if the NCAA granted you a wavier to do so?

If a waiver ever became a reality then I'm positive they would make a request to the Big South. I'm sure the Big South would accommodate Liberty's Olympic sports since other schools in the Big South do not have football and Liberty is very competitive in other sports.

Personally speaking, I do not think Liberty want to go the independent route. Our president have said that Liberty will stay in the Big South until they're offered full-membership into another conference...Now if a football-only invite came along, I'm sure our president would change his stance.

(08-22-2014 07:03 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  Question: If the Sun Belt is not pressed in getting to 12 schools and hosting a championship game, then why did they extend Idaho and NMSU lifelines?

Some could say it was because of Benson's familiarity with them, but the SBC did not owe them anything especially since they left the SBC on their own. Plus the addition of NMSU as a football-only invite does not seem to be a power-move considering that their best sport is in basketball.

WKU wasn't supposed to leave. That's the 12th member. WKU was invited to CUSA after NMSU and Idaho were invited to the Sun Belt.

My question is: Why would Liberty push so hard to get into a conference that very few within the conference would welcome? I would never go where I am not wanted.

If Liberty becomes a power in FCS then I'm all for adding them. This is expansion is about football any way you look at it. The other sports are important, but football is driving this wagon. They have incredible facilities with every intention to make them even better. Everything about their sports makes me want to invite them as soon as their football is in the upper echelon of FCS.

(08-22-2014 11:06 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  If Liberty becomes a power in FCS then I'm all for adding them. This is expansion is about football any way you look at it. The other sports are important, but football is driving this wagon. They have incredible facilities with every intention to make them even better. Everything about their sports makes me want to invite them as soon as their football is in the upper echelon of FCS.

You make a point I've raised in the past... If Liberty has all these millions and millions of dollars, then why can't they excel at the FCS level? They haven't thus far. That isn't to say that they will not eventually dominate FCS, but so far they haven't.

(08-22-2014 11:24 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:06 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  If Liberty becomes a power in FCS then I'm all for adding them. This is expansion is about football any way you look at it. The other sports are important, but football is driving this wagon. They have incredible facilities with every intention to make them even better. Everything about their sports makes me want to invite them as soon as their football is in the upper echelon of FCS.

You make a point I've raised in the past... If Liberty has all these millions and millions of dollars, then why can't they excel at the FCS level? They haven't thus far. That isn't to say that they will not eventually dominate FCS, but so far they haven't.

That's also there. They play in one of the worst conferences in FCS. One that has an auto-bid. They've never made the playoffs. If all of these benefits will somehow materialize from Liberty in the Sun Belt, then why haven't we seen a greater prominence from the Big South?

I get that they want to jump, but we have to look at fit as well as how others will perceive the Sun Belt if we invite them. If JMU or Missouri State are reluctant to join the Sun Belt without Liberty in it, does anyone think that a Sun Belt WITH Liberty in it will be more attractive? less attractive? no difference? I think that adding Liberty will make it much harder for the Belt to find new teams if we need them in the future.

(08-22-2014 11:24 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:06 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  If Liberty becomes a power in FCS then I'm all for adding them. This is expansion is about football any way you look at it. The other sports are important, but football is driving this wagon. They have incredible facilities with every intention to make them even better. Everything about their sports makes me want to invite them as soon as their football is in the upper echelon of FCS.

You make a point I've raised in the past... If Liberty has all these millions and millions of dollars, then why can't they excel at the FCS level? They haven't thus far. That isn't to say that they will not eventually dominate FCS, but so far they haven't.

Money does not give you championships, championships give you money. Alabama wins a football title (or three), and all sports facilities benefit. Auburn wins a championship and gets a new basketball arena. Oregon dominates their conference, new football facility, upgraded basketball arena. Win big, benefit big.

(08-22-2014 09:17 AM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  I have to laugh heartily when people use analogies to compare us to Westboro Baptist. Do we have some rules and regs....sure, but there are even MORE conservative schools out there that make us look like a couch burning West Virginia campus by comparison, and even THOSE schools have nothing on Westboro Baptist. On a board full of "experts" it is hard to take some of these comments seriously.

Sure, Pensacola Christian is worse than Liberty.

I think that the reason for the comparison is due to the attitude of Liberty's leadership. Its because the message many see coming from LU is "Politically incorrect since 1971" and that many in the LU leadership appear to take pride in offending others. I get that it isn't the entire school or all of its students, but it appears as that's what LU is selling.

I think LU is also tone deaf to the concerns of others. It seems as though some of their leadership falls into the trap of worrying about WHO is right and wrong rather than WHAT is right and wrong.

Here's where I land. Discrimination in hiring is wrong on the basis of religion, race, national origin, marital status, sexual orientation etc. Advocacy/Cheerleading of throwing someone in prison for the crime of consensual adult behavior is wrong. I don't see any contemporary interpretation of the Bible telling people "don't hire Jews" or "throw all the Gays in prison". The fact that LU's leadership presents this message by its actions while claiming Biblical authority to do so, might be a reason why people associate LU with Westboro Baptist.

Liberty's issues aren't unfixable, but I think the LU leadership doesn't realize that they are in a deep hole and yet they keep digging. By the way, watch out for that 'discrimination' issue....its going to look worse and worse and worse as time goes on. LU will eventually change its policies. That's not in question. The only question that LU has to answer is how much reputational damage are they going to do to their school, their alumni, and their fans before they change?

(08-22-2014 11:31 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:24 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:06 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  If Liberty becomes a power in FCS then I'm all for adding them. This is expansion is about football any way you look at it. The other sports are important, but football is driving this wagon. They have incredible facilities with every intention to make them even better. Everything about their sports makes me want to invite them as soon as their football is in the upper echelon of FCS.

You make a point I've raised in the past... If Liberty has all these millions and millions of dollars, then why can't they excel at the FCS level? They haven't thus far. That isn't to say that they will not eventually dominate FCS, but so far they haven't.

Money does not give you championships, championships give you money. Alabama wins a football title (or three), and all sports facilities benefit. Auburn wins a championship and gets a new basketball arena. Oregon dominates their conference, new football facility, upgraded basketball arena. Win big, benefit big.

Not a good example:

Alabama is the Flagship University. They will get the best 20 players every year from Alabama, Missisippi and Tennessee and sometimes even Florida. Money has never been the question at Alabama. A few get away, like Bo Jackson, Tee Martin, Pat White, Jameis Winston but UA definitely has the pick of the litter.

Oregon is also a Flagship University but it did not get traction until the 85 scholarship rule kicked into gear. Oregon always recruited players from California but that did not help them until the rosters at UCLA, USC and Cal were trimmed by about 120 players back in 1995. Then it also helps to have an Alumnus whose surname is NIKE.

Over the years, there have only been about 5 to 10 schools that could take the best players from other states:

Alabama
Michigan
Notre Dame
Georgia (from South Carolina until Spurrier)
Florida State (from Louisiana until Saban, Georgia, Virginia, and South Carolina)
Southern California (really did not need to raid other states)
Nebraska (back in the day)
Oklahoma (back in the day)

I think Michigan State would get its fair share as well. >> Plexico Burress.

(08-22-2014 06:50 AM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  I think C-USA comes calling. With JMU out of the picture, the Virginian Pilot newspaper reported that ODU was lobbying for us to be their travel partner. I think Liberty prefers the Sun Belt footprint for recruiting though. Heard APP State also wanted us as travel partner. Time will tell.

CUSA isn't going to come calling for Racist/Prejudice/Homophobic U. No way would the majority of the universities approve Liberty in CUSA. And if they did I sure as hell hope Marshall would have an exit plan before Liberty ever arrived.

There is a reason Liberty has been in the Big South since 1991 and 7 institutions have moved on. I can bet that 90% of it doesn't have to do with athletics but has to do with perception of Liberty. No other conference wants to give Liberty a platform. I know Liberty applied to the SoCon when Marshall left in 1996 but they instead took a new DI school and former DII school Wofford instead.

Also there are very few schools worse than Liberty, Bob Jones, Pensacola Christian and a few others.

(08-22-2014 12:06 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:31 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:24 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 11:06 AM)bamaEagle Wrote:  If Liberty becomes a power in FCS then I'm all for adding them. This is expansion is about football any way you look at it. The other sports are important, but football is driving this wagon. They have incredible facilities with every intention to make them even better. Everything about their sports makes me want to invite them as soon as their football is in the upper echelon of FCS.

You make a point I've raised in the past... If Liberty has all these millions and millions of dollars, then why can't they excel at the FCS level? They haven't thus far. That isn't to say that they will not eventually dominate FCS, but so far they haven't.

Money does not give you championships, championships give you money. Alabama wins a football title (or three), and all sports facilities benefit. Auburn wins a championship and gets a new basketball arena. Oregon dominates their conference, new football facility, upgraded basketball arena. Win big, benefit big.

Not a good example:

Alabama is the Flagship University. They will get the best 20 players every year from Alabama, Missisippi and Tennessee and sometimes even Florida. Money has never been the question at Alabama. A few get away, like Bo Jackson, Tee Martin, Pat White, Jameis Winston but UA definitely has the pick of the litter.

Oregon is also a Flagship University but it did not get traction until the 85 scholarship rule kicked into gear. Oregon always recruited players from California but that did not help them until the rosters at UCLA, USC and Cal were trimmed by about 120 players back in 1995. Then it also helps to have an Alumnus whose surname is NIKE.

Over the years, there have only been about 5 to 10 schools that could take the best players from other states:

Alabama
Michigan
Notre Dame
Georgia (from South Carolina until Spurrier)
Florida State (from Louisiana until Saban, Georgia, Virginia, and South Carolina)
Southern California (really did not need to raid other states)
Nebraska (back in the day)
Oklahoma (back in the day)

I think Michigan State would get its fair share as well. >> Plexico Burress.

Uh, Auburn has more students, stricter admissions standards, and a higher academic reputation than Alabama. If you win all three, you're the 'effective flagship' if there is to be only one. I'd argue that Alabama has two flagships though. Alabama has had more success as far as national championships go, but many of those were 'made up' and many of Auburn's close misses were out of their control.

(08-22-2014 12:57 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 06:50 AM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  I think C-USA comes calling. With JMU out of the picture, the Virginian Pilot newspaper reported that ODU was lobbying for us to be their travel partner. I think Liberty prefers the Sun Belt footprint for recruiting though. Heard APP State also wanted us as travel partner. Time will tell.

CUSA isn't going to come calling for Racist/Prejudice/Homophobic U. No way would the majority of the universities approve Liberty in CUSA. And if they did I sure as hell hope Marshall would have an exit plan before Liberty ever arrived.

There is a reason Liberty has been in the Big South since 1991 and 7 institutions have moved on. I can bet that 90% of it doesn't have to do with athletics but has to do with perception of Liberty. No other conference wants to give Liberty a platform. I know Liberty applied to the SoCon when Marshall left in 1996 but they instead took a new DI school and former DII school Wofford instead.

Also there are very few schools worse than Liberty, Bob Jones, Pensacola Christian and a few others.

Racist? Strong words coming from a fan of a school located in West Virginia. 17% of LU students are black compared to 6% at Marshall. Please, tell me about how Liberty is racist. Posters here must hate me....I bring FACTS to the table.