(03-14-2022 07:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  In all likelihood 1 of 4 things will appeal to ESPN:

1. Protect the Brands: Duke, North Carolina, Clemson and FSU to the SEC.

2. Protect the Markets: Florida State, Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia Tech/UVa

3. Build Hoops: Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia

4. Build Hoops and Markets: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, FSU/Miami/S.Florida


1. Simple it builds and protects brands and then ESPN merges B12 and ACC schools into one 20 school conference.

2. Could work but UNC isn't coming w/o Duke.

3. This could easily appeal to ESPN who would want Clemson and FSU along with Va Tech and Miami to anchor the value of the new conference.

4. This could also appeal to ESPN and expand SEC presence in Fla.

Every addition needs to add value to the existing members in one of two ways:
1. Value of new school is above the medium value of SEC schools (with OU & UT in the fold, that leaves Ohio State, Michigan and Norte Dame).
2. Business model format changes and new school is the best fit willing to join.

Unless the Big Ten can overcome the G.O.R. and pull apart the ACC in a couple of years, I don’t see any movement from there in the horizon unless NIL leads to a creation of a new semi-pro college league which would void the grant.

(03-15-2022 08:20 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-14-2022 07:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  In all likelihood 1 of 4 things will appeal to ESPN:

1. Protect the Brands: Duke, North Carolina, Clemson and FSU to the SEC.

2. Protect the Markets: Florida State, Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia Tech/UVa

3. Build Hoops: Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia

4. Build Hoops and Markets: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, FSU/Miami/S.Florida


1. Simple it builds and protects brands and then ESPN merges B12 and ACC schools into one 20 school conference.

2. Could work but UNC isn't coming w/o Duke.

3. This could easily appeal to ESPN who would want Clemson and FSU along with Va Tech and Miami to anchor the value of the new conference.

4. This could also appeal to ESPN and expand SEC presence in Fla.

Every addition needs to add value to the existing members in one of two ways:
1. Value of new school is above the medium value of SEC schools (with OU & UT in the fold, that leaves Ohio State, Michigan and Norte Dame).
2. Business model format changes and new school is the best fit willing to join.

Unless the Big Ten can overcome the G.O.R. and pull apart the ACC in a couple of years, I don’t see any movement from there in the horizon unless NIL leads to a creation of a new semi-pro college league which would void the grant.

1. The addition of North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC adds over 20 million and the content value UNC and UVa would add to basketball alone would be major. Duke would make the presidents salivate and if ESPN wanted the deal and paid pro rata then no problem. As to a Florida school almost anyone increases our add rates in Florida. FSU is top 10 in revenue generation. Kansas has a higher hoops value than UNC & Duke, and a higher football value as well.

Still, none of those schools add enough unless basketball is freed from the NCAA and monetized. That's hurdle #1.

Hurdle #2 is not NIL which is law now. Hurdle #2 would be an affirmative SCOTUS ruling on pay for play because that action has legal precedent for the voidance of GOR's in the entertainment industry, would essentially end the organizing principle of the NCAA (amateurism) and would necessitate each school's ability to make a decision with regard to their athletics moving forward therefore by precedent a legal change to pre-existing contracts which adversely impacts one or both parties would require new contracts including GOR's.

Hoops can be built further; however, the SEC and a few other conferences need to put the NCAA and their media partners on notice about their "selection committees" going forward. This year's selection committee needs thoroughly assessed as to their slanted decisions and an independent report presented.
Selecting Michigan not even as a bubble team was absurd. They made sure Notre Dame crawled in there when there are arguably better teams, including one from the ACC that were left out.
The seedings of nine BIG teams were quite generous.

SEC basketball got undervalued and underrated again. It is beyond time not to tolerate this NCAA behavior.

Basketball powerhouses such as Duke and UNC won't be fond of coming into the SEC when pollsters and selection committees predetermine the SEC is not up to snuff in the pecking order and the BIG continues to be the designee for pre-crowning in a biased, subjective process loaded with rust belt favorites.

A good place to start is looking at these rankings. Well, for baseball anyway.

robsrankings.com

I am not sold on super-duper numbers for a mega-conference that is corporate media driven. Here's my stab at it, recognizing JRsec and others have put forth varying models.

SEC - west
Louisiana State
Arkansas
Mizzou
Texas
Tex A&M
Oklahoma
Kansas

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Kentucky
Miami

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville

Whose unhappy?

(04-14-2022 11:58 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I am not sold on super-duper numbers for a mega-conference that is corporate media driven. Here's my stab at it, recognizing JRsec and others have put forth varying models.

SEC - west
Louisiana State
Arkansas
Mizzou
Texas
Tex A&M
Oklahoma
Kansas

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Kentucky
Miami

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville

Whose unhappy?

Texas and Oklahoma who were not allowed to bring Texas Tech and Oklahoma State. Add Kansas State to that list as well. Now we need Baylor (oldest university in Texas) and we are at 32.

32? What the heck.

SEC - west
Texas Tech
Kansas State
Baylor
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Arkansas

(Texas & their old buds again? SEC is asking for headaches.)

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Mizzou
LSU
Texas A&M
(Let Mizzou & Texas A&M have their freedom from the first group.)

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State
Miami
(I like this one the most.)

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville
Kentucky
(Not the toughest, but need one with respectable compatibility.)

(04-14-2022 01:57 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  32? What the heck.

SEC - west
Texas Tech
Kansas State
Arkansas
Baylor
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
(Texas & their old buds again? SEC is asking for headaches.)

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Mizzou
Arkansas
Texas A&M
(Let Mizzou, Texas A&M, & Arkansas have their freedom from the first group.)

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State
Miami
(I like this one the most.)

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville
Kentucky
(Not the toughest, but need one with respectable compatibility.)

Here are the likeliest to the least likely options:

SEC at 20:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida State/Miami

Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


SEC at 24:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida, Florida State/Miami, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


SEC at 32 (at this size a P2 only emerges and I have a hard time seeing the upside)

Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Miami, South Carolina, Tennessee

Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt

Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

(04-14-2022 02:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 01:57 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  32? What the heck.

SEC - west
Texas Tech
Kansas State
Arkansas
Baylor
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
(Texas & their old buds again? SEC is asking for headaches.)

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Mizzou
Arkansas
Texas A&M
(Let Mizzou, Texas A&M, & Arkansas have their freedom from the first group.)

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State
Miami
(I like this one the most.)

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville
Kentucky
(Not the toughest, but need one with respectable compatibility.)

Here are the likeliest to the least likely options:

SEC at 20:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida State/Miami

Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


SEC at 24:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida, Florida State/Miami, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


SEC at 32 (at this size a P2 only emerges and I have a hard time seeing the upside)

Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Miami, South Carolina, Tennessee

Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt

Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

I had to correct my post. Screwed-up placing LSU & had Arkansas incorrectly.

Yes, I expect to be fewer also.

Incremental adding may happen vs a larger bulk at once. Adding ACC schools may be the exception.

B12 schools can sit where they are until someone comes calling. I seriously doubt the SEC wants to pursue schools such as Baylor and TTU.

Wake, GT, and Miami, for example, may be a stretch as to being ACC schools that end up in the SEC. But I won't say it is impossible.

(04-14-2022 12:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 11:58 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I am not sold on super-duper numbers for a mega-conference that is corporate media driven. Here's my stab at it, recognizing JRsec and others have put forth varying models.

SEC - west
Louisiana State
Arkansas
Mizzou
Texas
Tex A&M
Oklahoma
Kansas

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Kentucky
Miami

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville

Whose unhappy?

Texas and Oklahoma who were not allowed to bring Texas Tech and Oklahoma State. Add Kansas State to that list as well. Now we need Baylor (oldest university in Texas) and we are at 32.

(04-14-2022 03:59 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 02:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 01:57 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  32? What the heck.

SEC - west
Texas Tech
Kansas State
Arkansas
Baylor
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
(Texas & their old buds again? SEC is asking for headaches.)

SEC - central
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Mizzou
Arkansas
Texas A&M
(Let Mizzou, Texas A&M, & Arkansas have their freedom from the first group.)

SEC - east south
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State
Miami
(I like this one the most.)

SEC - mid-atlantic
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
Vanderbilt
Louisville
Kentucky
(Not the toughest, but need one with respectable compatibility.)

Here are the likeliest to the least likely options:

SEC at 20:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida State/Miami

Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


SEC at 24:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida, Florida State/Miami, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


SEC at 32 (at this size a P2 only emerges and I have a hard time seeing the upside)

Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Miami, South Carolina, Tennessee

Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt

Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

I had to correct my post. Screwed-up placing LSU & had Arkansas incorrectly.

Yes, I expect to be fewer also.

Incremental adding may happen vs a larger bulk at once. Adding ACC schools may be the exception.

B12 schools can sit where they are until someone comes calling. I seriously doubt the SEC wants to pursue schools such as Baylor and TTU.

Wake, GT, and Miami, for example, may be a stretch as to being ACC schools that end up in the SEC. But I won't say it is impossible.

About the only schools worth considering from the Big 12 would be Kansas and West Virginia. Kansas could be Big Ten bound as they would round out any PAC-12 additions. WVU could land in the ACC or in the SEC if a PAC school is added and a round number is desired. I still think the ACC stays together until 2036 with their GOR.

But if we are looking at schools that add value to the SEC, only a handful average more value that the SEC mean. Besides future new additions OU and UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Norte Dame and Penn State are above the SEC medium. Nebraska, Wisconsin, Florida State and a few more have high values.

So outside adding Michigan, OSU, ND or Penn State, you’re probably adding a school that could lower the per team payout unless a major change in scheduling or post season structure develops.

(04-19-2022 02:32 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  About the only schools worth considering from the Big 12 would be Kansas and West Virginia. Kansas could be Big Ten bound as they would round out any PAC-12 additions. WVU could land in the ACC or in the SEC if a PAC school is added and a round number is desired. I still think the ACC stays together until 2036 with their GOR.

But if we are looking at schools that add value to the SEC, only a handful average more value that the SEC mean. Besides future new additions OU and UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Norte Dame and Penn State are above the SEC medium. Nebraska, Wisconsin, Florida State and a few more have high values.

So outside adding Michigan, OSU, ND or Penn State, you’re probably adding a school that could lower the per team payout unless a major change in scheduling or post season structure develops.

Many years ago, I proposed that the SEC add all 10 schools from the Big 12 and form a 24 team behemoth. It wasn't meant to be, but the point of this concept was to get a certain amount of premier content under one roof.

This sort of consolidation creates value in and of itself. That will be even more true in a world of NIL and pay-for-play. The reason is because fewer and fewer squads will be able to afford to compete at the highest level.

I understand the reasoning behind every addition needing to add value to the median point, but I have ever only agreed with it up to a point. The point where that changes is the moment you can redefine the market with the level of content you have.

More games + more watchable brands + more interested markets

This is the formula that pro leagues use to capitalize on the diverse interests of Americans. There is a saturation point, certainly, but no college league has reached it.

24 for the SEC is fine as long as you're adding watchable brands from a wide swath of territory.

(04-19-2022 10:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(04-19-2022 02:32 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  About the only schools worth considering from the Big 12 would be Kansas and West Virginia. Kansas could be Big Ten bound as they would round out any PAC-12 additions. WVU could land in the ACC or in the SEC if a PAC school is added and a round number is desired. I still think the ACC stays together until 2036 with their GOR.

But if we are looking at schools that add value to the SEC, only a handful average more value that the SEC mean. Besides future new additions OU and UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Norte Dame and Penn State are above the SEC medium. Nebraska, Wisconsin, Florida State and a few more have high values.

So outside adding Michigan, OSU, ND or Penn State, you’re probably adding a school that could lower the per team payout unless a major change in scheduling or post season structure develops.

Many years ago, I proposed that the SEC add all 10 schools from the Big 12 and form a 24 team behemoth. It wasn't meant to be, but the point of this concept was to get a certain amount of premier content under one roof.

This sort of consolidation creates value in and of itself. That will be even more true in a world of NIL and pay-for-play. The reason is because fewer and fewer squads will be able to afford to compete at the highest level.

I understand the reasoning behind every addition needing to add value to the median point, but I have ever only agreed with it up to a point. The point where that changes is the moment you can redefine the market with the level of content you have.

More games + more watchable brands + more interested markets

This is the formula that pro leagues use to capitalize on the diverse interests of Americans. There is a saturation point, certainly, but no college league has reached it.

24 for the SEC is fine as long as you're adding watchable brands from a wide swath of territory.

The next expansion, I would think the SEC would want to focus eastward. That will take immense maneuvering to crack the ACC GoR before it is due to expire. Essentially, near all ACC schools get promised a P-level placement elsewhere, or a big infusion of money and a reload if just a fraction of the conference leaves.

(04-20-2022 09:20 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(04-19-2022 10:18 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(04-19-2022 02:32 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  About the only schools worth considering from the Big 12 would be Kansas and West Virginia. Kansas could be Big Ten bound as they would round out any PAC-12 additions. WVU could land in the ACC or in the SEC if a PAC school is added and a round number is desired. I still think the ACC stays together until 2036 with their GOR.

But if we are looking at schools that add value to the SEC, only a handful average more value that the SEC mean. Besides future new additions OU and UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Norte Dame and Penn State are above the SEC medium. Nebraska, Wisconsin, Florida State and a few more have high values.

So outside adding Michigan, OSU, ND or Penn State, you’re probably adding a school that could lower the per team payout unless a major change in scheduling or post season structure develops.

Many years ago, I proposed that the SEC add all 10 schools from the Big 12 and form a 24 team behemoth. It wasn't meant to be, but the point of this concept was to get a certain amount of premier content under one roof.

This sort of consolidation creates value in and of itself. That will be even more true in a world of NIL and pay-for-play. The reason is because fewer and fewer squads will be able to afford to compete at the highest level.

I understand the reasoning behind every addition needing to add value to the median point, but I have ever only agreed with it up to a point. The point where that changes is the moment you can redefine the market with the level of content you have.

More games + more watchable brands + more interested markets

This is the formula that pro leagues use to capitalize on the diverse interests of Americans. There is a saturation point, certainly, but no college league has reached it.

24 for the SEC is fine as long as you're adding watchable brands from a wide swath of territory.

The next expansion, I would think the SEC would want to focus eastward. That will take immense maneuvering to crack the ACC GoR before it is due to expire. Essentially, near all ACC schools get promised a P-level placement elsewhere, or a big infusion of money and a reload if just a fraction of the conference leaves.

Seven to the SEC, Seven to merge with the Big 12 and the SEC picks up Kansas. Notre Dame remains independent.

Duke, UNC, Virginia, Clemson, FSU, Viginia Tech & Georgia Tech plus Kansas to the SEC.

Boston College, Louisville, Miami, N.C. State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest to the B12.

SEC:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M


NB12:

Baylor, Brigham Young, Colorado State, Houston, Texas Tech, Tulane

Connecticut, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Temple, West Virginia

Central Florida, N.C. State, Memphis, Miami, South Florida, Wake Forest

Cincinnati, Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian

* Notre Dame remains independent and ESPN helps them schedule between the NB12 and the SEC.

ESPN essentially converts 4 conferences into 2.

(09-05-2014 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 03:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think disparity in income is the new carrot with which to entice the final moves. We'll see.

Possibly, but since the ACC is owned by ESPN, the Mouse might feel inclined to keep the ACC within range of the SEC and B1G just on general principle. Its a move not without precedent as intervention from FOX and the WWL is the sole reason why the B12 still exists. I'm sure ESPN knows better than us any SEC---> ACC movement would bring into question the latter's stability and it is doubtful that ESPN could find a home for all 14 schools. And lets face it, an ACC addition only benefits to SEC in areas that are ancillary to play on the field.

If any conference is going away its definitely going to be the B12. Less members to disperse, the opportunity to do so is right around the corner, has the weaker brand and the logistics are easier for the rest of the P4 to swallow.

There is a point of 'diminishing return' on expansion, particularly for a conference atop the heap such as the SEC. What that number may be is debatable.
My opinion is that the SEC is in a grand situation with the OU and UT additions. The SEC can be very choosy going forward. The ACC has a few high quality schools that may offer a net gain to the revenue of the current SEC schools.
The Big12, at varying times, has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, and now Texas and Oklahoma. What's left are not impressive standouts, and I say that includes Kansas outside their basketball program.

(04-23-2022 07:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 03:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think disparity in income is the new carrot with which to entice the final moves. We'll see.

Possibly, but since the ACC is owned by ESPN, the Mouse might feel inclined to keep the ACC within range of the SEC and B1G just on general principle. Its a move not without precedent as intervention from FOX and the WWL is the sole reason why the B12 still exists. I'm sure ESPN knows better than us any SEC---> ACC movement would bring into question the latter's stability and it is doubtful that ESPN could find a home for all 14 schools. And lets face it, an ACC addition only benefits to SEC in areas that are ancillary to play on the field.

If any conference is going away its definitely going to be the B12. Less members to disperse, the opportunity to do so is right around the corner, has the weaker brand and the logistics are easier for the rest of the P4 to swallow.

There is a point of 'diminishing return' on expansion, particularly for a conference atop the heap such as the SEC. What that number may be is debatable.
My opinion is that the SEC is in a grand situation with the OU and UT additions. The SEC can be very choosy going forward. The ACC has a few high quality schools that may offer a net gain to the revenue of the current SEC schools.
The Big12, at varying times, has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, and now Texas and Oklahoma. What's left are not impressive standouts, and I say that includes Kansas outside their basketball program.

We are headed for a P2 of what will eventually be about 48 schools.

So, O.F. which 8 do you wish to see in the SEC. The value is accretive because the current number of 65 hands in the pie will be reduced by 17 and revenues raised for better weekly match ups and for having a collection of brands which draw 2-3 million viewers or more each time they play.

I'd say the first 4 which would be the most accretive would be North Carolina and Virginia Tech for additional markets of 21 million. Florida State gives us 2 in a large state and gives us the 2 which deliver the most viewers. Clemson x anyone in the SEC lineup will be compelling TV. Beyond that it's what ESPN wants. Louisville is the best all around. Miami holds solid value and is easily recognized by casual viewers.
Georgia Tech is in the largest city in the South. Duke and Kansas are national draws in hoops.

Combining the PAC and B1G is a natural. Counting only AAU schools that's 9 + 14 assuming ND is #24.

If the SEC grows to 24 we need take 8 from the ACC & B12. The revenue increases with inventory, larger shares due to fewer members, and better matchups due to brand on brand play.

The SEC doesn't need anyone else. That's true. But if we are the nucleus for half of a new self contained league which 8 would you take?

(04-23-2022 08:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-23-2022 07:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 03:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think disparity in income is the new carrot with which to entice the final moves. We'll see.

Possibly, but since the ACC is owned by ESPN, the Mouse might feel inclined to keep the ACC within range of the SEC and B1G just on general principle. Its a move not without precedent as intervention from FOX and the WWL is the sole reason why the B12 still exists. I'm sure ESPN knows better than us any SEC---> ACC movement would bring into question the latter's stability and it is doubtful that ESPN could find a home for all 14 schools. And lets face it, an ACC addition only benefits to SEC in areas that are ancillary to play on the field.

If any conference is going away its definitely going to be the B12. Less members to disperse, the opportunity to do so is right around the corner, has the weaker brand and the logistics are easier for the rest of the P4 to swallow.

There is a point of 'diminishing return' on expansion, particularly for a conference atop the heap such as the SEC. What that number may be is debatable.
My opinion is that the SEC is in a grand situation with the OU and UT additions. The SEC can be very choosy going forward. The ACC has a few high quality schools that may offer a net gain to the revenue of the current SEC schools.
The Big12, at varying times, has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, and now Texas and Oklahoma. What's left are not impressive standouts, and I say that includes Kansas outside their basketball program.

We are headed for a P2 of what will eventually be about 48 schools.

So, O.F. which 8 do you wish to see in the SEC. The value is accretive because the current number of 65 hands in the pie will be reduced by 17 and revenues raised for better weekly match ups and for having a collection of brands which draw 2-3 million viewers or more each time they play.

I'd say the first 4 which would be the most accretive would be North Carolina and Virginia Tech for additional markets of 21 million. Florida State gives us 2 in a large state and gives us the 2 which deliver the most viewers. Clemson x anyone in the SEC lineup will be compelling TV. Beyond that it's what ESPN wants. Louisville is the best all around. Miami holds solid value and is easily recognized by casual viewers.
Georgia Tech is in the largest city in the South. Duke and Kansas are national draws in hoops.

Combining the PAC and B1G is a natural. Counting only AAU schools that's 9 + 14 assuming ND is #24.

If the SEC grows to 24 we need take 8 from the ACC & B12. The revenue increases with inventory, larger shares due to fewer members, and better matchups due to brand on brand play.

The SEC doesn't need anyone else. That's true. But if we are the nucleus for half of a new self contained league which 8 would you take?

Besides the $ value schools, the market schools and the matchup schools (Clemson as long as they maintain), I think there is a little room at 24 teams to play defense vs the Big 10. If the Big 10 doesn't want all 9 of the AAU schools from the PAC, for instance, they could still go for UNC/GT/etc. While I don't think the SEC needs to grab GT on its own merits, and might even let GT go to the new Big 10, a school like NC State might need to be taken along with Duke/UNC even if that gives us 3 north Carolina schools. NC state has good numbers on its own, but we would obviously take UNC/Duke first. But to stop the Big 10 from getting in our area, it might make sense.

I could also see a weird zipper model where:
Big 10 takes say
Kansas
Virginia
UNC/Duke

And we take
Virginia Tech
NC State

And create some solid other conference rivalry games on par with the Sec-Acc now.

(04-26-2022 09:47 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(04-23-2022 08:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-23-2022 07:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 03:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think disparity in income is the new carrot with which to entice the final moves. We'll see.

Possibly, but since the ACC is owned by ESPN, the Mouse might feel inclined to keep the ACC within range of the SEC and B1G just on general principle. Its a move not without precedent as intervention from FOX and the WWL is the sole reason why the B12 still exists. I'm sure ESPN knows better than us any SEC---> ACC movement would bring into question the latter's stability and it is doubtful that ESPN could find a home for all 14 schools. And lets face it, an ACC addition only benefits to SEC in areas that are ancillary to play on the field.

If any conference is going away its definitely going to be the B12. Less members to disperse, the opportunity to do so is right around the corner, has the weaker brand and the logistics are easier for the rest of the P4 to swallow.

There is a point of 'diminishing return' on expansion, particularly for a conference atop the heap such as the SEC. What that number may be is debatable.
My opinion is that the SEC is in a grand situation with the OU and UT additions. The SEC can be very choosy going forward. The ACC has a few high quality schools that may offer a net gain to the revenue of the current SEC schools.
The Big12, at varying times, has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, and now Texas and Oklahoma. What's left are not impressive standouts, and I say that includes Kansas outside their basketball program.

We are headed for a P2 of what will eventually be about 48 schools.

So, O.F. which 8 do you wish to see in the SEC. The value is accretive because the current number of 65 hands in the pie will be reduced by 17 and revenues raised for better weekly match ups and for having a collection of brands which draw 2-3 million viewers or more each time they play.

I'd say the first 4 which would be the most accretive would be North Carolina and Virginia Tech for additional markets of 21 million. Florida State gives us 2 in a large state and gives us the 2 which deliver the most viewers. Clemson x anyone in the SEC lineup will be compelling TV. Beyond that it's what ESPN wants. Louisville is the best all around. Miami holds solid value and is easily recognized by casual viewers.
Georgia Tech is in the largest city in the South. Duke and Kansas are national draws in hoops.

Combining the PAC and B1G is a natural. Counting only AAU schools that's 9 + 14 assuming ND is #24.

If the SEC grows to 24 we need take 8 from the ACC & B12. The revenue increases with inventory, larger shares due to fewer members, and better matchups due to brand on brand play.

The SEC doesn't need anyone else. That's true. But if we are the nucleus for half of a new self contained league which 8 would you take?

Besides the $ value schools, the market schools and the matchup schools (Clemson as long as they maintain), I think there is a little room at 24 teams to play defense vs the Big 10. If the Big 10 doesn't want all 9 of the AAU schools from the PAC, for instance, they could still go for UNC/GT/etc. While I don't think the SEC needs to grab GT on its own merits, and might even let GT go to the new Big 10, a school like NC State might need to be taken along with Duke/UNC even if that gives us 3 north Carolina schools. NC state has good numbers on its own, but we would obviously take UNC/Duke first. But to stop the Big 10 from getting in our area, it might make sense.

I could also see a weird zipper model where:
Big 10 takes say
Kansas
Virginia
UNC/Duke

And we take
Virginia Tech
NC State

And create some solid other conference rivalry games on par with the Sec-Acc now.

If the SEC and B1G do wind up picking the ACC apart, I see the B1G going after UVA, UNC and GT. I could see the SEC getting into a bidding war and taking Duke to secure UNC, while also acquiring VT, FSU, Clemson and one more to round the numbers out.

I think people get caught up in seeing Duke, North Carolina, and Virginia as academic-first schools fitting the B1G profile and North Carolina St and Virginia Tech as the opposite and fitting better with the SEC. I did and still do. I think it stems from wanting to see two or so balanced conferences at the top of the pile. Knowing the B1G “only” accepts AAU schools, it’s easy to slide those 3 into the B1G. From a 30,000 foot view, that’s nice and clean.

However, the SEC has a higher ceiling and is s much more well-rounded athletics conference than the B1G. Championships since the start of the BCS:

B1G
Football: 2
Basketball: 1 (2 - including Maryland)
Baseball: 0

SEC
Football: 14 (16 - including Oklahoma and Texas)
Basketball: 3
Baseball: 8 (10 - including Texas)

Duke / North Carolina / Virginia
Football: 0 - only 2 shy of the entire B1G
Basketball: 7 - more than both the B1G and SEC combined
Baseball: 1 - more than the entire B1G

(04-29-2022 07:56 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I think people get caught up in seeing Duke, North Carolina, and Virginia as academic-first schools fitting the B1G profile and North Carolina St and Virginia Tech as the opposite and fitting better with the SEC. I did and still do. I think it stems from wanting to see two or so balanced conferences at the top of the pile. Knowing the B1G “only” accepts AAU schools, it’s easy to slide those 3 into the B1G. From a 30,000 foot view, that’s nice and clean.

However, the SEC has a higher ceiling and is s much more well-rounded athletics conference than the B1G. Championships since the start of the BCS:

B1G
Football: 2
Basketball: 1 (2 - including Maryland)
Baseball: 0

SEC
Football: 14 (16 - including Oklahoma and Texas)
Basketball: 3
Baseball: 8 (10 - including Texas)

Duke / North Carolina / Virginia
Football: 0 - only 2 shy of the entire B1G
Basketball: 7 - more than both the B1G and SEC combined
Baseball: 1 - more than the entire B1G

Then clearly the SEC's lockdown move is to add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, and North Carolina.

(04-29-2022 08:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-29-2022 07:56 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I think people get caught up in seeing Duke, North Carolina, and Virginia as academic-first schools fitting the B1G profile and North Carolina St and Virginia Tech as the opposite and fitting better with the SEC. I did and still do. I think it stems from wanting to see two or so balanced conferences at the top of the pile. Knowing the B1G “only” accepts AAU schools, it’s easy to slide those 3 into the B1G. From a 30,000 foot view, that’s nice and clean.

However, the SEC has a higher ceiling and is s much more well-rounded athletics conference than the B1G. Championships since the start of the BCS:

B1G
Football: 2
Basketball: 1 (2 - including Maryland)
Baseball: 0

SEC
Football: 14 (16 - including Oklahoma and Texas)
Basketball: 3
Baseball: 8 (10 - including Texas)

Duke / North Carolina / Virginia
Football: 0 - only 2 shy of the entire B1G
Basketball: 7 - more than both the B1G and SEC combined
Baseball: 1 - more than the entire B1G

Then clearly the SEC's lockdown move is to add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, and North Carolina.

That’d make for a killer conference to watch year-round. More than it already is which is saying a lot.