(11-03-2015 05:11 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 11:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 07:30 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look, everybody approaches realignment from the wrong end of the rope. Who would the SEC take? Who does the Big 10 want? Who does the ACC go after? That's all hooey! The question is who does ESPN want, especially if they are up against budget cuts? The answer is they want the most bang for the fewest dollars. That's as plain as the nose on your face. Who does that for them? Notre Dame all in boosts the entire value of the ACC. If it means that you take a Cincy to do that then that's relatively cheap. What does the SEC need to do for ESPN? Land Oklahoma and preferably Texas, or settle for Kansas. Either way for the price of just 4 more schools ESPN dominates the top inventory in terms of revenue producers (7 of the top 10), in terms of attendance, in terms of viewership, in terms of pedigree, and in terms of multiple sports.

Then the Mouse doesn't need much of the Big 10 except a slice of their T1 and they don't need more than the lease they already have on the PAC. The Big 10 is a 4 or 5 team conference where those top 4 or 5 don't even all play each other. The rest of the conference wreaks. You don't need 2nd or 3rd pick every week in the Big 10 to find inventory. All you need are 1st picks. The ACC & SEC lock down the property they want more of an exclusive hold over. But all they want of the SEC and ACC in return is that we play ball with their desires. That's the Chapel Hill issue that has to be overcome. They are extremely resistant to other dominant programs and the challenge they would pose to Heel dominance of the ACC.

I think the question then is what makes ESPN the most money?

Content matters, quality of content matters, market penetration matters, overall ratings matter.

Does ESPN profit more from consolidating leagues and pawning the schools left out to a leftover league? Something akin to the old system where the Big East provided some bargain content while the major leagues provided the Tier 1 stuff?

Currently, the ACC is underfunded which causes instability because certain programs need more money to compete with their rivals. The ACCN has been delayed while apparently a bump in pay has been added to stem the tide. The question is does that payment mean ESPN is committed to an ACCN or that they are just stalling? Dan Wolken's comments suggest that the ACC is on the outside looking in and that the clock is ticking.

The B1G contract is coming up and I imagine ESPN wants a nice slice of the pie. Even though most of the league is very average, the average ratings are still better than the ACC.

The SEC is the cash cow and would certainly be a home for the major products from the ACC that ESPN wants to keep. The same could be said for the Big 12 although ESPN doesn't have full control over that conference.

The vote to deregulate conference championships is coming in Jan. What effect does this have on potential realignment?

ND is not going to join the ACC unless it's proven they can't make the playoff with a reasonable resume.

Texas, I don't think, wants to join the ACC or any other league because they have a fiefdom in the Big 12. They get to play neighbors and be the boss although time is ticking on the LHN and the media footprint for the league is abysmal for creating their own network. The Big 12 was overpaid to stay together in part because FOX wanted a tent pole for their new venture. My theory as well is that ESPN went along with it because realignment was happening too fast. They weren't in total control so they used a new Big 12 TV contract to hit the pause button. They still maintain control of Texas, however.

So what makes ESPN the most money given all the fluid dynamics of the situation?

Oklahoma and Texas to the SEC. Notre Dame and whoever Notre Dame wants to the ACC. That's what makes them the most money.

Tejas has always been the SEC's #1 target. While Oklahoma is not nearly as valuable, they do offer great history, content, and cache'.
I would also consider pairing Tejas with Kansas, if the SEC plans to keep Missouri. That move may push Oklahoma to the PAC with Okie Lite, Texas Tech and Kansas State. Looking through ESPN's eyes, the SEC already has enough football product, but may need to worry about content the other 6-8 months of the year.

Hey, taking Ren's suggestion the SEC takes Texas, OU, Okie St., and Kansas. The ACC takes T.C.U., Baylor, Kansas State, & West Virginia. Texas Tech and Iowa State are left to fend for themselves. Or the SEC takes OU, Kansas, Iowa State, and West Virginia and the ACC takes Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and T.C.U.

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 02:47 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  VT, SU, BC, Pitt to Big Ten. They get a more solid footing in the East to balance out the Midwest, reunites former Big East programs, gives Maryland an old partner, gains an AAU, a former AAU, a strong private and a near AAU school.

SEC would have to bring in NC State to make the UNC/Duke pairing a reality. So those three plus UVA and you win the heart of the ACC.

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, Louisville and __ to XII, depending on who the __ could be. ND could join the XII on a similar deal or even in full if independence is no longer viable.

Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

If deregulation passes that would be the play for the ACC. ND should be happy because they would get to spread the brand around longer without having to play a full schedule, not to mention playing two private schools in the state of Texas. West Virginia reattaches the Eastern footprint without taking in an academy (and as JrSec has argued, the academies don't want that weekly punishment anyway).

The question is Fox Sports. How would they be accounted for their investment in the B12? With 20 programs there won't be enough space to put all the games on even with streaming. Fox may agree to give up 3rd tier rights in the ACC for being part of the pool for broadcast rights in a greatly expanded ACC. I don't know for sure.

(11-03-2015 06:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

(11-04-2015 10:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 06:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

It's not a dumb idea. 67-68 they made the 3rd place game in the NCAA tournament, and in 82-4 they were in the final fours. They have a history even if it is 30 years old at this point. I think it fits their MO, and it does add a major market. I admit I don't know much about their academics, which may be an issue. But if SEC/Big 10 raid the ACC or if they need a 16th, Houston does make sense. Backfilling could bring Memphis, Houston, and Cincy in, and I am more up on Temple than many. Toss in UConn and ND to get to 20 or 18 if it is a backfill. Interestingly, Memphis, Houston, and Cincy would all also be Big 12 candidates if they are not raided too.

(11-04-2015 10:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

I don't think Houston is a bad idea at all. Even if it was, posting dumb ideas is one of my favorite past times around here...

I think the Big 12, though, is going to implode sooner than later. The ACC should get a shot at Texas or at least a couple of the other TX schools.

(11-03-2015 06:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey, taking Ren's suggestion the SEC takes Texas, OU, Okie St., and Kansas. The ACC takes T.C.U., Baylor, Kansas State, & West Virginia. Texas Tech and Iowa State are left to fend for themselves. Or the SEC takes OU, Kansas, Iowa State, and West Virginia and the ACC takes Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and T.C.U.

I think finding a spot for all 10 current Big 12 teams is probably the best route. No one will be left behind to file a lawsuit or in the event that the Big 12 expands soon to try to add new markets then the original 10 would probably be needed to make it work anyway.

I think there's a lot of ways to do it and I like the idea of the SEC taking the remaining untapped markets with OU, KU, ISU, and WVU. Either way, the 2 leagues could benefit by splitting the remaining schools. The shifting Big 12 schools would be better off as well.

A lot of ways to do it:

SEC could take: OU, KU, ISU, WVU, TCU, and Cincinnati

ACC could take: UT, TT, Baylor, OSU, KSU, and one of Houston/Memphis/Tulane

Both would be at 20 with numerous overlapping markets. The networks of both leagues would benefit greatly especially if the 2 are bundled together.

Any word on the potential for a consortium being formed between the 2 leagues?

(11-04-2015 09:50 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 06:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey, taking Ren's suggestion the SEC takes Texas, OU, Okie St., and Kansas. The ACC takes T.C.U., Baylor, Kansas State, & West Virginia. Texas Tech and Iowa State are left to fend for themselves. Or the SEC takes OU, Kansas, Iowa State, and West Virginia and the ACC takes Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and T.C.U.

I think finding a spot for all 10 current Big 12 teams is probably the best route. No one will be left behind to file a lawsuit or in the event that the Big 12 expands soon to try to add new markets then the original 10 would probably be needed to make it work anyway.

I think there's a lot of ways to do it and I like the idea of the SEC taking the remaining untapped markets with OU, KU, ISU, and WVU. Either way, the 2 leagues could benefit by splitting the remaining schools. The shifting Big 12 schools would be better off as well.

A lot of ways to do it:

SEC could take: OU, KU, ISU, WVU, TCU, and Cincinnati

ACC could take: UT, TT, Baylor, OSU, KSU, and one of Houston/Memphis/Tulane

Both would be at 20 with numerous overlapping markets. The networks of both leagues would benefit greatly especially if the 2 are bundled together.

Any word on the potential for a consortium being formed between the 2 leagues?

If I had to guess, I would think that ESPN would rather put Texas in the ACC because, let's face it, they need the big brand name addition more. ESPN would benefit more by having 2 strong properties instead of one strong and one so-so.

(11-04-2015 10:11 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  If I had to guess, I would think that ESPN would rather put Texas in the ACC because, let's face it, they need the big brand name addition more. ESPN would benefit more by having 2 strong properties instead of one strong and one so-so.

I agree.

(11-04-2015 10:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 06:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

It's a really dumb idea.

(11-05-2015 08:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 10:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 06:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

It's a really dumb idea.

Yeah but I got you to read the whole thing and you'll never get that 5 minutes of your life back

(11-05-2015 08:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 10:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 06:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

It's a really dumb idea.

Sadly none of it will happen that way for those reasons. The moves when they happen will be from the networks perspective, not that of what is needed for conferences, and it will be economical in every sense of the word. The fewest possible teams taken that make the biggest economic impact. So we go back to OU, Texas, & Notre Dame. The only impact upon those three will be if they demand anyone else. If not put Kansas in the mix. If so put Oklahoma State, or a second Texas school in the mix.

ESPN might have to settle for using Texas as leverage for another conference and settling on Kansas and OU and Notre Dame might be their play.

Has anyone considered that Oklahoma to the SEC is viable should ESPN use Texas as leverage for the Big 10 or PAC.

Texas and 3 friends not named OU to the PAC in exchange for a % of rights to the PACN.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10 in exchange for a long term T1 deal.

The much ballyhooed Texas as an independent to the ACC utilizing the LHN for the ACCN.

Oklahoma to the SEC simply multiplies content value. Kansas would be a perk, or perhaps Virginia Tech becomes the second school.

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC with Kansas and Virginia Tech to the Big 10. Notre Dame, Cincinnati, and Connecticut/West Virginia to the ACC.

Anyway you look at it the moves will involve the brands that ESPN wants to control with niche markets in which they can find profit. And that is the simplicity that will govern the final moves whichever scenario they choose, and there certainly be combinations I haven't listed.

(11-02-2015 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Sadly none of it will happen that way for those reasons. The moves when they happen will be from the networks perspective, not that of what is needed for conferences, and it will be economical in every sense of the word. The fewest possible teams taken that make the biggest economic impact. So we go back to OU, Texas, & Notre Dame. The only impact upon those three will be if they demand anyone else. If not put Kansas in the mix. If so put Oklahoma State, or a second Texas school in the mix.

ESPN might have to settle for using Texas as leverage for another conference and settling on Kansas and OU and Notre Dame might be their play.

Has anyone considered that Oklahoma to the SEC is viable should ESPN use Texas as leverage for the Big 10 or PAC.

Texas and 3 friends not named OU to the PAC in exchange for a % of rights to the PACN.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10 in exchange for a long term T1 deal.

The much ballyhooed Texas as an independent to the ACC utilizing the LHN for the ACCN.

Oklahoma to the SEC simply multiplies content value. Kansas would be a perk, or perhaps Virginia Tech becomes the second school.

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC with Kansas and Virginia Tech to the Big 10. Notre Dame, Cincinnati, and Connecticut/West Virginia to the ACC.

Anyway you look at it the moves will involve the brands that ESPN wants to control with niche markets in which they can find profit. And that is the simplicity that will govern the final moves whichever scenario they choose, and there certainly be combinations I haven't listed.

It takes two to tango. The schools themselves will also have to have the motivation or desire to switch conferences or seriously look around.

(11-05-2015 06:14 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Sadly none of it will happen that way for those reasons. The moves when they happen will be from the networks perspective, not that of what is needed for conferences, and it will be economical in every sense of the word. The fewest possible teams taken that make the biggest economic impact. So we go back to OU, Texas, & Notre Dame. The only impact upon those three will be if they demand anyone else. If not put Kansas in the mix. If so put Oklahoma State, or a second Texas school in the mix.

ESPN might have to settle for using Texas as leverage for another conference and settling on Kansas and OU and Notre Dame might be their play.

Has anyone considered that Oklahoma to the SEC is viable should ESPN use Texas as leverage for the Big 10 or PAC.

Texas and 3 friends not named OU to the PAC in exchange for a % of rights to the PACN.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10 in exchange for a long term T1 deal.

The much ballyhooed Texas as an independent to the ACC utilizing the LHN for the ACCN.

Oklahoma to the SEC simply multiplies content value. Kansas would be a perk, or perhaps Virginia Tech becomes the second school.

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC with Kansas and Virginia Tech to the Big 10. Notre Dame, Cincinnati, and Connecticut/West Virginia to the ACC.

Anyway you look at it the moves will involve the brands that ESPN wants to control with niche markets in which they can find profit. And that is the simplicity that will govern the final moves whichever scenario they choose, and there certainly be combinations I haven't listed.

It takes two to tango. The schools themselves will also have to have the motivation or desire to switch conferences or seriously look around.

Money, and the need to be perceived to be with peers will be the motivation for the schools if it is the Big 12 schools that move. Money, money, money, will be the motivation for the ACC if it is their schools that move.

UH, FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Cincinnati, Louisville to Big 12

Virginia Tech and NC State to SEC

UNC, UVA, Duke and one more to Big Ten

Remnant conference has: Miami, USF, UCF, Wake, Memphis, UCONN, Syracuse, Pitt, BC, Navy, possibly Temple, Army or UMass. Notre Dame would be put in a spot.

(12-16-2015 06:32 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  UH, FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Cincinnati, Louisville to Big 12

Virginia Tech and NC State to SEC

UNC, UVA, Duke and one more to Big Ten

Remnant conference has: Miami, USF, UCF, Wake, Memphis, UCONN, Syracuse, Pitt, BC, Navy, possibly Temple, Army or UMass. Notre Dame would be put in a spot.

If the academics jump to the Big 10 I fully expect to see N.D. go with them, if not possibly Syracuse. The need to be a part of that Olympic sport contingent will be strong. Lacrosse, hoops, and baseball will be other reasons to try to keep that gang together for the Irish.

If the Big 10 moves to 18, look for the SEC to do the same. Virginia Tech, N.C. State, Clemson and Florida State. The latter two have value as content multipliers and they help to solidify the SEC brand in a way that N.C. State and Virginia Tech can't deliver. Then Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and B.Y.U. make sense for the Big 12.

Realistically, ESPN would do everything possible to prevent the core of the ACC from moving to the B1G unless they had looooong term broadcast rights at low, locked in rates (and for more that just tier 1 rights, too).
And even then it does not seem prudent to give away the southern football market, or the strong southeastern basketball market.
In fact if you really analyze the situation, ESPN wouldn't let the ACC go period. The fact of the matter is that ESPN can get much more year 'round content from the ACC that they can get from the SEC.

(12-16-2015 03:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  Realistically, ESPN would do everything possible to prevent the core of the ACC from moving to the B1G unless they had looooong term broadcast rights at low, locked in rates (and for more that just tier 1 rights, too).
And even then it does not seem prudent to give away the southern football market, or the strong southeastern basketball market.
In fact if you really analyze the situation, ESPN wouldn't let the ACC go period. The fact of the matter is that ESPN can get much more year 'round content from the ACC that they can get from the SEC.

Take off your baby blue goggles and look at the real world for a moment. SEC is tops in women's gymnastics, swimming & diving we are always in the mix if not winning it all, track & field we dominate, we are reemerging in women's hoops, have owned softball and baseball, especially as compared to the ACC, are coming on strong in women's soccer, and that doesn't even consider football. All you have is basketball and lacrosse, and nobody outside of the Northeastern Seaboard gives a flying fig about lacrosse!

Other than Duke and Carolina basketball the whole damned world would get along just fine without the ACC altogether. I can't think of anything more untrue that you have ever posted than this tripe.

College basketball brings in only 1/3rd of the money that football does. Baseball is a money sport in the SEC. Outside of that none of it matters. Shoot the SEC even holds its own in tennis and golf. Hands down we have more year round content that you do and it's not even close.

If you were valuable you would have a network. You don't! End of story.

The ACC still exists because ESPN wants N.D. and hopes to lure in Texas. Fail at that agenda and all bets are off. I do agree that they don't want the core basketball product bolting to the Big 10. Other than that ESPN won't care what logo is on the jersey as long as they own the rights to the product.

I would not be surprised if no Power 5 goes above 16 and since we are going away from the market model the B1G and SEC just take two state flagships or large public schools to complete the roster and then the other conferences are allowed to participate in an expanded CFP.

Example:

OU, KU -> Big Ten

FSU, Clemson -> SEC

TCU, Baylor, UConn, West Virginia -> ACC
Texas, Notre Dame 6 games ACC

TCU, Baylor, Louisville, West Virginia
Pitt, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech
UNC, UVA, Duke, NCSU
Miami, Syracuse, UConn, BC

B12: Texas Tech, Houston, SMU, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, USF, UCF, ECU

In this case, the B12 even w/o their big 3 still has a lineup of interesting programs in three time zones. They'd be eligible to compete for an at-large, after the PAC, B1G, SEC and ACC all fulfill their spots. 4 automatics and 2 at-large to allow Texas, ND and B12 to fight for them.

(11-05-2015 08:35 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 08:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 10:04 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 06:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 04:45 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  Given the recent developments with the ACCN delay (I still hold out hope that ESPN will come through just because I think they would rather the ACC survive and thrive rather than be picked apart)...

here's a novel idea that Swofford is undoubtedly not smart enough to conjure himself: Conspire to cannibalize the Big12 with the SEC and ESPN. We need 8 votes to dissolve the conference and nullify the GOR. The SEC is negotiating from a position of strength, so let them have the two properties they desire the most: OU and Kansas. The ACC then takes 6 to destroy the Big12: WVU, KState, Okie State, Texas, Baylor, TCU. The elephant in the room is the Longhorn network. Let Texas keep it, but they get zero revenue from the ACCN. The ACC gets subscribers all through Texahoma, Kansas and probably into Missouri. The ACC and SEC get new interconference rivalries with Kansas-KState, OU-OSU, and just maybe Texas-aTm. Iowa State and TTech are hosed, but that's life.

That would result in a 16 team SEC and a 20 team ACC. The ACC would mix and match 5 team pods to form 2 divisions of 10 teams every year. They divide up rather nicely:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
WVU

UVa
VT
UNC
Duke
NCSU

WF
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Texas
TCU
Baylor
OSU
KState

WF gets murdered every year, but WF has a history of being the peacemaker that does what is best for the conference.

That's similar to some of the scenarios we talked about previously. The ACC would benefit most by tag teaming with the SEC to take down the Big 12.

It's probably the simplest plan for both leagues and ESPN to get what they want. Not sure if UNC would go for it, but the others really should just make it happen and save the league for the long term. If UNC doesn't want more power teams in the league then tell them to get over it.

I would propose this alignment:

OU, OSU, KU, TCU to the SEC

UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU, WVU to the ACC

ACC North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville(the old Big East basically)
ACC West: UT, Baylor, TT, KSU, ISU
ACC Atlantic: UVA, VT, UNC, Duke, NC State
ACC South: FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Wake

It would be a pretty good league actually.

we all love hypotheticals on this board, so here's another one. assuming the ACCN delay further pressures ND to go all in and they agree to do it. I had previously said, along with many others, that Cincy is the most likely 16th assuming no P5 team is available. However, let's consider a few points. I would also assume that the ACCN does come to fruition if ND is all in (probably a safe bet).

1. ND being all in changes the game. The 16th is of much less consequence given the gravity of ND joining.
2. The 16th should still be selected in terms of what they give the ACC that they don't already have: TV market/ACCN, recruiting territory, football prowess, basketball prowess.

UConn brings good basketball, but we already have basketball in spades. Football is dreadful and most likely always will be. There are very little recruits coming from that area. We already have a foothold in that TV market with Syracuse and ND.

Cincy brings decent football and basketball. It is also a good recruiting area. However, I would argue that Ohio is OSU territory and always will be. Adding Cincy will not put the ACC into Ohio any further than ND and Louisville already do for us.

Drum roll...

Houston: Large university with decent football with a much higher ceiling than the other options. New recruiting territory and TV markets for the ACCN. Also another possible ACC - SEC rivalry with aTm. Travel concerns are mitigated by 2 very large airports in Houston. It also further marginalizes the Big12.

Is it a dumb idea? Maybe, but this is a message board

It's a really dumb idea.

Yeah but I got you to read the whole thing and you'll never get that 5 minutes of your life back

Cause and effect? Why would the lack of an ACC conference network cause ND football to join?