(08-10-2014 03:41 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:36 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  We just need to hope that it stays at five conferences and that they are all forced to go to 16 teams therefore leaving the SEC or big 12 nowhere to turn but Memphis basically by default.

Why would they be forced to go to 16 teams each?

The one good reason I can see that would be unavoidable is some kind of playoff structure that requires 2 - 8 team divisions.

(08-10-2014 06:49 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:46 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Yep I think unc is a great matchup for the sec. UK & unc every year twice??? Wow! Unc & Louisville make a lot of sense for the sec.

UNC is probably the school the $EC and B1G would love to add the most after Texas. But I think UNC likes it's ACC influence.

Louisville adds nothing to the $EC they don't already have.

Are you sure the SEC wouldn't want to have 100% of the TVs in the state of Kentucky rather than 60%?

(08-10-2014 08:51 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:21 PM)Tigerbythetail Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 05:56 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I repeat, there is no incentive for P5 conferences to expand any more. TV revenue has been maximized. Nobody on the outside looking in brings additional value.

There is nothing magic about the number 16. The CFP distribution is capped at 12 teams.

The only thing left that could encourage more expansion in the P5 is the conference networks. Everybody now has one except the B12. But if they take more, it will be from each other, or from the B12.

In either case, that will simply give us a shot at a weakened league, much like what happened with the Big East.

There is a big negative that I don't see anyone talking about based on the current discussion. The one thing that those on the outside looking in bring is their audience. Yes, there will be some college football fans who will continue to be a part of the audience even though there school is no longer part of the picture. But there will be many, myself included, who would have no interest in following college football if my school is no longer a part of it. Sure, the P5 will have the lion's share of profits, but how are they going to increase or hold on to their existing profit levels with a diminished viewing audience? You cannot convince me that they will be able to grow those profits ad infinitum when they cut their collective noses off to spite their face by excluding all but the P5.

The lower tier P5 teams reportedly outdraw most G5 teams, and the lower-tier teams get bigger ratings when they play each other, as opposed to playing a G5 team, so your premise doesn't seem to be supported by the actual TV ratings, assuming what others have posted is accurate, b/c I'm not interested enough to research it myself.

You are not understanding who he is talking about CFB losing, and I agree with him. The casual fan of the big Alabama/LSU match-up on "x" night oft times is also a big-time fan of ... say.... a Memphis type team. I believe with all my heart if this thing goes doomsday as advertised, I, and a whole bunch of others, will NEVER watch another down of CFB again. Period.

(08-10-2014 11:16 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 08:51 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:21 PM)Tigerbythetail Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 05:56 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I repeat, there is no incentive for P5 conferences to expand any more. TV revenue has been maximized. Nobody on the outside looking in brings additional value.

There is nothing magic about the number 16. The CFP distribution is capped at 12 teams.

The only thing left that could encourage more expansion in the P5 is the conference networks. Everybody now has one except the B12. But if they take more, it will be from each other, or from the B12.

In either case, that will simply give us a shot at a weakened league, much like what happened with the Big East.

There is a big negative that I don't see anyone talking about based on the current discussion. The one thing that those on the outside looking in bring is their audience. Yes, there will be some college football fans who will continue to be a part of the audience even though there school is no longer part of the picture. But there will be many, myself included, who would have no interest in following college football if my school is no longer a part of it. Sure, the P5 will have the lion's share of profits, but how are they going to increase or hold on to their existing profit levels with a diminished viewing audience? You cannot convince me that they will be able to grow those profits ad infinitum when they cut their collective noses off to spite their face by excluding all but the P5.

The lower tier P5 teams reportedly outdraw most G5 teams, and the lower-tier teams get bigger ratings when they play each other, as opposed to playing a G5 team, so your premise doesn't seem to be supported by the actual TV ratings, assuming what others have posted is accurate, b/c I'm not interested enough to research it myself.

You are not understanding who he is talking about CFB losing, and I agree with him. The casual fan of the big Alabama/LSU match-up on "x" night oft times is also a big-time fan of ... say.... a Memphis type team. I believe with all my heart if this thing goes doomsday as advertised, I, and a whole bunch of others, will NEVER watch another down of CFB again. Period.

That's not what the TV ratings seem to be showing. At that level, most casual fans simply watch football, and aren't that discriminating about the teams. And they still watch the SEC teams, even the lousy ones, b/c they are more familiar with their names.

As for disgusted fans who might give up, you are generally talking about the specific fans of the G5 teams, who represent a small percentage of the TV audience, not enough to make a significant difference.

As for the 16 team structure tied to some type of playoff structure, I haven't heard a single word in the legit media to support that idea. It just doesn't make any sense.

(08-10-2014 11:09 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 06:49 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:46 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Yep I think unc is a great matchup for the sec. UK & unc every year twice??? Wow! Unc & Louisville make a lot of sense for the sec.

UNC is probably the school the $EC and B1G would love to add the most after Texas. But I think UNC likes it's ACC influence.

Louisville adds nothing to the $EC they don't already have.

Are you sure the SEC wouldn't want to have 100% of the TVs in the state of Kentucky rather than 60%?

Yes.

TV contracts would be the same whether it's 60% of Kentucky or 100% of Kentucky.

It's still Kentucky.

Only two states smaller in the $EC than Kentucky are Mississippi and Arkansas.

(08-11-2014 05:49 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 11:16 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 08:51 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:21 PM)Tigerbythetail Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 05:56 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I repeat, there is no incentive for P5 conferences to expand any more. TV revenue has been maximized. Nobody on the outside looking in brings additional value.

There is nothing magic about the number 16. The CFP distribution is capped at 12 teams.

The only thing left that could encourage more expansion in the P5 is the conference networks. Everybody now has one except the B12. But if they take more, it will be from each other, or from the B12.

In either case, that will simply give us a shot at a weakened league, much like what happened with the Big East.

There is a big negative that I don't see anyone talking about based on the current discussion. The one thing that those on the outside looking in bring is their audience. Yes, there will be some college football fans who will continue to be a part of the audience even though there school is no longer part of the picture. But there will be many, myself included, who would have no interest in following college football if my school is no longer a part of it. Sure, the P5 will have the lion's share of profits, but how are they going to increase or hold on to their existing profit levels with a diminished viewing audience? You cannot convince me that they will be able to grow those profits ad infinitum when they cut their collective noses off to spite their face by excluding all but the P5.

The lower tier P5 teams reportedly outdraw most G5 teams, and the lower-tier teams get bigger ratings when they play each other, as opposed to playing a G5 team, so your premise doesn't seem to be supported by the actual TV ratings, assuming what others have posted is accurate, b/c I'm not interested enough to research it myself.

You are not understanding who he is talking about CFB losing, and I agree with him. The casual fan of the big Alabama/LSU match-up on "x" night oft times is also a big-time fan of ... say.... a Memphis type team. I believe with all my heart if this thing goes doomsday as advertised, I, and a whole bunch of others, will NEVER watch another down of CFB again. Period.

That's not what the TV ratings seem to be showing. At that level, most casual fans simply watch football, and aren't that discriminating about the teams. And they still watch the SEC teams, even the lousy ones, b/c they are more familiar with their names.

As for disgusted fans who might give up, you are generally talking about the specific fans of the G5 teams, who represent a small percentage of the TV audience, not enough to make a significant difference.

As for the 16 team structure tied to some type of playoff structure, I haven't heard a single word in the legit media to support that idea. It just doesn't make any sense.

Not sure what you watch or listen to, but every radio talk show & tv sports show I watch has said something about 4 16 team conferences over that past year. & I would know because I dvr the hell out of them. Hell, even sports reporters on Sunday morning has talked about it. Pti mentions it at least once a week.

(08-11-2014 05:49 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 11:16 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 08:51 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:21 PM)Tigerbythetail Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 05:56 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I repeat, there is no incentive for P5 conferences to expand any more. TV revenue has been maximized. Nobody on the outside looking in brings additional value.

There is nothing magic about the number 16. The CFP distribution is capped at 12 teams.

The only thing left that could encourage more expansion in the P5 is the conference networks. Everybody now has one except the B12. But if they take more, it will be from each other, or from the B12.

In either case, that will simply give us a shot at a weakened league, much like what happened with the Big East.

There is a big negative that I don't see anyone talking about based on the current discussion. The one thing that those on the outside looking in bring is their audience. Yes, there will be some college football fans who will continue to be a part of the audience even though there school is no longer part of the picture. But there will be many, myself included, who would have no interest in following college football if my school is no longer a part of it. Sure, the P5 will have the lion's share of profits, but how are they going to increase or hold on to their existing profit levels with a diminished viewing audience? You cannot convince me that they will be able to grow those profits ad infinitum when they cut their collective noses off to spite their face by excluding all but the P5.

The lower tier P5 teams reportedly outdraw most G5 teams, and the lower-tier teams get bigger ratings when they play each other, as opposed to playing a G5 team, so your premise doesn't seem to be supported by the actual TV ratings, assuming what others have posted is accurate, b/c I'm not interested enough to research it myself.

You are not understanding who he is talking about CFB losing, and I agree with him. The casual fan of the big Alabama/LSU match-up on "x" night oft times is also a big-time fan of ... say.... a Memphis type team. I believe with all my heart if this thing goes doomsday as advertised, I, and a whole bunch of others, will NEVER watch another down of CFB again. Period.

That's not what the TV ratings seem to be showing. At that level, most casual fans simply watch football, and aren't that discriminating about the teams. And they still watch the SEC teams, even the lousy ones, b/c they are more familiar with their names.

As for disgusted fans who might give up, you are generally talking about the specific fans of the G5 teams, who represent a small percentage of the TV audience, not enough to make a significant difference.

As for the 16 team structure tied to some type of playoff structure, I haven't heard a single word in the legit media to support that idea. It just doesn't make any sense.

Thanks for the feedback. I do think the impact on CFB will be a significant decline in ratings over time if this power grab takes place. I would really like to see the P5 profit models with the new landscape in place, I think it's a bad business model.

Posted this in another thread but probably more applicable to the discussion here.

There are currently 65 teams in P5 conferences who provide excellent (in terms of revenue generated) TV coverage for the entire country.

I say this only to preface the point. The point being that the TV contracts for those 65 teams through their respective conferences across the country already "own" the desired TV markets of the entire USA. There is not enough market added by any G5 schools or conferences as a whole to add enough revenue to any of the P5 conferences to even maintain current P5 per-school payout averages much less increase per-school payouts. THEREFORE THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER EXPANSION AMONG THE P5. The P5 has the market & they are taking steps to eliminate any threats to their market. These step include autonomy, requiring P5 schools to play an OOC P5 school in their schedule, control of the major bowl invitations, removing the requirement to win 6 games to receive a bowl bid, etc. The motivation is maximizing revenues for the conferences & its member schools.

Logical steps by P5 member schools to further this process will include the potential for some P5 schools to consider moves from their current P5 conference affiliation to another P5 conference that can offer that school additional revenues. The ACC & others have erected barriers to that consideration by their stiff exit penalties. The one variable that still exists with some real potential to occur involves TX. The TX network is not shared by the B12 but is not functioning or performing as envisioned while the SEC network & the B1G networks have exceeded expectations. If TX continues to under-perform on the FB field & their TV network continues to under-perform, it may create an imbalance of revenues when comparing TX revenues to those received by the SEC or B1G schools. That scenario could lead TX to consider a move from the B12 to the SEC or the B1G or.....to the PAC12 where a TX addition would be a substantial financial boost to the PAC12 & may provide the additional revenue desired by TX.

This leaves the B12 vulnerable to the fate of the BE losing its BCS standing unless the B12 can reorganize by the adding of several G5 schools. And this depends upon what other B12 school(s) might go with TX or leave for greener pastures with a TX move. IMO, this is the only hope for our university to advance but much like our invitation to the BE, it soon became significantly devalued based upon the perception of the conference - and the other BCS schools (now reads P5) moved quickly to consolidate their positions to increase the revenue of the now smaller group by a full-scale elimination of the BE. The remaining P5 schools could do the same thing unless the remaining B12 schools have a plan in the works with ESPN to maintain the status-quo with the potential for a TX move. IMO this means a small potential of 3-6 (because TX takes OU & OKSt with them plus the B12 goes to 12 schools) G5 schools moving to the B12.

So the question: is our university one of the strong 3-6 contenders for the limited possibility of an invitation to the diluted B12? I say currently NO because our university is currently not performing to the level to receive serious consideration, our university has failed to make a serious investment in its FB program as Claw indicated above & because the likes of BYU, Cincy, Houston, SMU, Tulane, UCF/USF & Boise have. I believe the serious investment would include & require an OCS commitment (even if not begun) & being in the top 2-3 of those listed annually in terms of on-field performance.

So forget about the ideas of more butts in the seats, more market etc, they don't exist. It depends upon TX, what they do, who goes with them & can the B12 survive a TX exit.

The only reason I could see the P5 agreeing to expand to 16 schools each is the decision coming down that they will only play each other. They need some scrum, they need more schools in the pot so that all of those schools in those conferences can only play one another. And possibly keep those out of conference games within reasonable travel.

(08-10-2014 08:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:52 PM)ddramone Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:41 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:36 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  We just need to hope that it stays at five conferences and that they are all forced to go to 16 teams therefore leaving the SEC or big 12 nowhere to turn but Memphis basically by default.

Why would they be forced to go to 16 teams each? I never have understood that line of thinking. What is the incentive? If it doesn't make financial sense, they won't do it. And the government isn't going to force them.

As for any expansion coming in the west, all the major conferences are populated from the midwest to the east, except the Pac 12, so the western teams aren't going anywhere, unless it's to the Pac 12.

The ONLY chance left is if the Big12 (which is really only 10 teams now) is entice into a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, which would require 12 teams to do so. That is our only chance. Pac-12 has the requisite # of teams, as does the Big10, ACC, SEC. Big 12 could add 2 more teams simply to get to 12 for a championship game and the TV rights (Big 10 championship game nets the Big10 about $25 million/year).

Right. I agree. That's why we were talking to the B12 earlier this year. However, they put those talks on hold, when the proposal was made by the ACC to change the CCG requirements. It will likely be proposed in October, and passed in January. If so, the B12 can play a CCG, starting at the end of the 2015 season, w/o expanding to 12, and that kills our best chance to get into the B12.

The ACC is in favour of this because they are prime time to be raided if any of the other conferences add teams. If the dominoes start falling; the ACC would be in big trouble if the other 4 conferences decide to each grab two of their programs.

(08-11-2014 01:25 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 08:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:52 PM)ddramone Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:41 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:36 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  We just need to hope that it stays at five conferences and that they are all forced to go to 16 teams therefore leaving the SEC or big 12 nowhere to turn but Memphis basically by default.

Why would they be forced to go to 16 teams each? I never have understood that line of thinking. What is the incentive? If it doesn't make financial sense, they won't do it. And the government isn't going to force them.

As for any expansion coming in the west, all the major conferences are populated from the midwest to the east, except the Pac 12, so the western teams aren't going anywhere, unless it's to the Pac 12.

The ONLY chance left is if the Big12 (which is really only 10 teams now) is entice into a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, which would require 12 teams to do so. That is our only chance. Pac-12 has the requisite # of teams, as does the Big10, ACC, SEC. Big 12 could add 2 more teams simply to get to 12 for a championship game and the TV rights (Big 10 championship game nets the Big10 about $25 million/year).

Right. I agree. That's why we were talking to the B12 earlier this year. However, they put those talks on hold, when the proposal was made by the ACC to change the CCG requirements. It will likely be proposed in October, and passed in January. If so, the B12 can play a CCG, starting at the end of the 2015 season, w/o expanding to 12, and that kills our best chance to get into the B12.

The ACC is in favour of this because they are prime time to be raided if any of the other conferences add teams. If the dominoes start falling; the ACC would be in big trouble if the other 4 conferences decide to each grab two of their programs.

I agree. Depending on what happens with Texas, this scenario could apply to either the ACC or the Big 12 as you know the Big 10, SEC and Pac-12 would likely only pull from the current Power 5 schools to expand (if they were to expand). Whoever gets pillaged will be left looking to fill in the gaps AND trying to keep their seat at the "big boy" table.

(08-09-2014 09:01 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-09-2014 06:39 PM)TripleA Wrote:  So, what is the incentive for the current 65 teams in the P5 conferences to include 15 more? They make more money per team as is.

Ur butthurt because BIGDTiger's brain is ahead of the curve. Everyone knows that the P5 are going through all this so they can share revenue with Ohio, Nevada, Colorado State, Georgia State, UNLV, ECU, while doing everything humanly possible to leave out Notre Dame and BYU.

Next time you post, at least try to bring something to the table that makes sense. BIGDTiger knows where it's at; try and be more like him.

You peeps are getting good at this sarcasm thing

(08-11-2014 01:25 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 08:53 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 07:52 PM)ddramone Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:41 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:36 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  We just need to hope that it stays at five conferences and that they are all forced to go to 16 teams therefore leaving the SEC or big 12 nowhere to turn but Memphis basically by default.

Why would they be forced to go to 16 teams each? I never have understood that line of thinking. What is the incentive? If it doesn't make financial sense, they won't do it. And the government isn't going to force them.

As for any expansion coming in the west, all the major conferences are populated from the midwest to the east, except the Pac 12, so the western teams aren't going anywhere, unless it's to the Pac 12.

The ONLY chance left is if the Big12 (which is really only 10 teams now) is entice into a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, which would require 12 teams to do so. That is our only chance. Pac-12 has the requisite # of teams, as does the Big10, ACC, SEC. Big 12 could add 2 more teams simply to get to 12 for a championship game and the TV rights (Big 10 championship game nets the Big10 about $25 million/year).

Right. I agree. That's why we were talking to the B12 earlier this year. However, they put those talks on hold, when the proposal was made by the ACC to change the CCG requirements. It will likely be proposed in October, and passed in January. If so, the B12 can play a CCG, starting at the end of the 2015 season, w/o expanding to 12, and that kills our best chance to get into the B12.

The ACC is in favour of this because they are prime time to be raided if any of the other conferences add teams. If the dominoes start falling; the ACC would be in big trouble if the other 4 conferences decide to each grab two of their programs.

Assume you think the ACC can't enforce its punitive penalties of $50M+ for a member school exiting the conference. In addition, the ACC has now acquired the media rights from the conference schools to be able to keep the TV revenues if a school decides to leave - in addition to the penalties. IMO, there are no ACC schools that will attempt to leave the ACC if those terms are enforceable - and apparently they may well be enforceable. The ACC & Maryland decided to settle out of court for $31M to the ACC rather than continue the court battles - and Maryland was only in the ACC for 2 mos after the penalties were enacted.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...31-million

(08-10-2014 06:49 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:46 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Yep I think unc is a great matchup for the sec. UK & unc every year twice??? Wow! Unc & Louisville make a lot of sense for the sec.

UNC is probably the school the $EC and B1G would love to add the most after Texas. But I think UNC likes it's ACC influence.

Louisville adds nothing to the $EC they don't already have.

Texas and Texas Tech will be a package deal. If any conference wants Texas they must take Tech also.

(08-12-2014 04:26 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 06:49 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 03:46 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Yep I think unc is a great matchup for the sec. UK & unc every year twice??? Wow! Unc & Louisville make a lot of sense for the sec.

UNC is probably the school the $EC and B1G would love to add the most after Texas. But I think UNC likes it's ACC influence.

Louisville adds nothing to the $EC they don't already have.

Texas and Texas Tech will be a package deal. If any conference wants Texas they must take Tech also.

That was the conventional thinking when the PAC took a run at TX. Not so sure that applies today. The TX network isn't performing as projected & TX isn't winning but TX fully intends to keep revenues ahead of A&M so I think they will do whatever it takes to achieve it. Still more likely TX winds up in the PAC along with TT, OU & OKSt or TX make the jump to the B1G with or without TT. I think the B1G could make it attractive for TX & OU as members to out flank the SEC & crown themselves the top FB conference in America in terms of attendance, revenues and TV audience.

But that said, IMO none of the P5 will do anything unless they see a top rival from another P5 gaining a distinct revenue advantage.

If and when this happens, all the schools not in the P5 should refuse to play them.. Let them play themselves..

What need to happen is the G5 need to work together with Espn, And others, Work on moving to Spring and create their own league and rules and say to heck all together with the NCAA...Yes it would take awhile for people to get use to it, but people love Football and would watch it, the casual fan would begin to tune in more and find themselves maybe enjoying it even....Just like the USFL was doing....Also they should try to not only do that, but work with Google, Hulu and create live sporting on the web, this and playing in the spring, And Maybe get a better Tv package for creating Spring ball....Once people were watching G5 in spring and P5 in the fall, you could create a bigger fan base and grow the support for it....June Jones makes a great point on this.....But heck that would be downright fighting back and innovative, which is why is probably won't happen although it should.....The World Is Ours Memphis....

So during the hot summer when families are on vacations & summer activities with kids. Sorry. It sounds good but it wouldn't work. The nfl & college football has a monopoly on the two days of the week that most people are off work & during some of the best weather in the world for 3 months. It's perfect

Oh I agree BigDtiger.....But think of the possibilities of Family time during Spring ball, when a lot of Families cant go on vacation, And need something to do, Or even on Vacation catch a good game possibly if they want to, and or able to watch it....Heck the way the weather has been acting who knows these days lol....But its better to try something new and innovative and like June Jones saud maybe be like a Usfl which had some success and make that work than to stand by and just take being kicked down a level in the not so distant future, and build something new instead.....And I bet if the G5 were to move to Spring ball and create their own league, and give networks and programming options for Spring and got more money, and began making it worked, see how they act then....But as I stated before, It takes guts to try something new and innovative and thinking outside the box, to become something great...Think of FedEx and how they told Fred his idea back then wouldn't work....Think of Amazon, and countless others....But because it would be taking guts, it will never happen because no one in the G5 seems to have the vision to try something new.....The World Is Ours Memphis.....

I like your enthusiasm but the G5 is the TrippleA to the P5A. The xfl tried it. The afl is still trying it. The usfl tried it. Amazon, fedex etc. had never been tried before. They answered a question. They solved a problem. They made things convenient. Moving the G5 to spring is a retread idea. I don't see it working.