One thing to kind of think about. With SEC games gone to SEC network- Pac 12 and Big 12 games all split up with Fox(and P12 network)- what does that do with regards to the Big Ten negotiations and an actual ACC network. I mean, if ESPN right now is airing around 45-50 Big Ten games. Will ESPN fight harder to keep Big Ten only on ESPN?

If ESPN does lose some Big Ten games to Fox, can ESPN then afford to do an ACC network? I'd kind of think the answer would be no.

(07-22-2014 09:45 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 10:26 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  With SEC, Pac & B1G games disappearing from non conference network, wouldnt that add more value to ACC & Big 12 games as the networks scramble to find quality replacement games for them?

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Only the PAC takes games that ESPN would want to show.

The Big Ten's Network is solely Tier 2. That means ESPN can take any match up they wish for. The Big Ten then takes the rest and shows it on the conference network. You are portraying the situation wrong. Is that purposeful or just ignorant?

I imagine the SEC's situation is the same considering ESPN is running the SEC Network. If there are any match ups on the SEC Network that most folks would consider worthy of ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 then it will be on the SEC Network due to ESPN choosing to put it there in order to build the SEC Network value early on in regards to getting more providers to sign on.

Wishful thinking. The ACC will get games on by it's own value. Try not to depend on the other conferences pulling a move like the NFL and putting top of the line content onto their own Network.

Judging by the intelligent answers that followed I would say my question wasn't "ignorant".

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(07-22-2014 09:45 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The Big Ten's Network is solely Tier 2. That means ESPN can take any match up they wish for. The Big Ten then takes the rest and shows it on the conference network. You are portraying the situation wrong. Is that purposeful or just ignorant?

Just an FYI, your statement is not accurate. While it is mostly true, the Big Ten does have clauses that allow them to have 2 and or 3rd pick of games in some weeks. So while ESPN can protect any single matchup they want, the BTN could take other matchups ESPN wants should they chose. That is how they were able to put the screws to NJ and MD residents with the threat to pull all of their games and put them on BTN. Because they can. But they typically don't. They will put a couple of middle tier games on the network, ones that ESPN would want but may not truly miss. But they want maximum coverage for their marquee games, so they don't try to take them. But they could.

(07-23-2014 07:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Far for me to be an ACC fan- but I think you may be a bit wrong here. I do think with the SEC network, probably about 15-20 games that would have been aired on one of the ESPN networks will now be on the SEC network. Those slots have to be replaced.

Not really. The last two years for example, after expansion, here were the games that did not make it to an ESPN NEtwork:


*Info courtesy of MAttsarz.com

If you look at this, that is 41.5 games per year. The SEC Network plans to show 45 live football games, which means only about 4-5 total games will be removed from the ESPN inventory, which matches the old contract as ESPN had been carrying about 6-7 "extra" games per year since Mizzou and aTm joined and they could not find outlets to distribute the extra games (no one would buy knowing the SECN was coming in two years).

Now it is possible that during the first couple of years, you may find 4-5 MORE games that would be on ESPN NEtworks moved to the SECN (in a trade) to make the network more appealing while they try to negotiate subscription deals, but by and large, numbers wise, you won't see any less games on ESPN Networks than you did in 2012.

Looking at Mattsarz's webpage- there are 8 games that are sublicensed to FSN as well that are on your list. So you're looking at 12-13 that would have been on ESPN that won't be. At least for this year.....

(07-23-2014 09:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Looking at Mattsarz's webpage- there are 8 games that are sublicensed to FSN as well that are on your list. So you're looking at 12-13 that would have been on ESPN that won't be. At least for this year.....

You caught me while I was fixing it. These all came from Mattsarz website. It includes all games that were not on an ESPN cable network. Disregard the original heading (that came from something else in my database). And yes it is from 2012 and 2013 -when I first opened the database, I forgot to look one column to the left off screen to find the year. I made this list sometime after last football season. So this is the bulk of the inventory for the SEC Network. As I said, I imagine typically 4-5 mid level games that would have been on ESPN U in the past will find their way here as they were actually broadcasting more SEC games then they were supposed to, and in the first two years, I think 3-4 "ESPN level" games will be there to boost awareness and distribution to start.

(07-23-2014 08:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  One thing to kind of think about. With SEC games gone to SEC network- Pac 12 and Big 12 games all split up with Fox(and P12 network)- what does that do with regards to the Big Ten negotiations and an actual ACC network. I mean, if ESPN right now is airing around 45-50 Big Ten games. Will ESPN fight harder to keep Big Ten only on ESPN?

If ESPN does lose some Big Ten games to Fox, can ESPN then afford to do an ACC network? I'd kind of think the answer would be no.

When the ACC was renegotiating with ESPN the last time, it was reported that they discussed an ACC Network Channel at that time, and it was said that ESPN proposed converting ESPNU into the ACC Network. Not sure why, but ACC turned down that offer. However, given what you have written above, I can certainly see why ESPN would want to do that and, tbh, that may be the way it finally goes down...

I think the Big 10 does a deal similar to the Pac 12 and Big 12 sharing the contract with ESPN and Fox.

With 14 teams, they now have 57 games on BTN (assuming 7 home games per school). The ESPN contract is "up to" 41 games. They really have too many games for the BTN. If they kept 45 on BTN like the SEC Network, that would leave 53 to be split between ESPN and Fox.

ESPN really has more inventory than they can use. They have approximately 22 Pac 12 games, 30 Big 12, 38 SEC, 41 Big 10 and 67 ACC (31 additional are licensed to Raycom). That's 198 time slots. They also have at least 11 MAC, 22 MWC, 1 CUSA, 7 Sun Belt and 59 AAC. Fox only has the 30 Big 12, 22 Pac 12 and 20 CUSA. That's just enough for 1 game on Fox and 2 on FS1 and FS2 each Saturday, so they have a lot more capacity.

actually reading mattsarz's website- it was 41- but has gone up with the expansion this year.

also have to remember for Big 10- the number of games will change(going to 9 conference games). The most they could have in 2016 is 105- that would mean EVERY ooc game was a home game. So the real number is going to be closer to 90 total. So if BTN got 45 games, that would leave 45 for ESPN/Fox to split.

AS far as your 198 time slots sounding like a lot. It's over 13 weeks. So about 15 per week.
Tue 1 game
Wed 1 game
Thu 2 games(1 espn, 1 espn2 or u)
Fri 1 game
Sat 3 ESPN, 2 ABC, 3 ESPN2, 3 ESPNU, 2 ESPNews. 13 games

so that right there is 18 games pretty easily. Some weekends they could have 4 games on one of the networks(noon, 330, 7, 1030)

And that's on 13 weeks. It's actually either 13 or 14 plus the CCG week. This year it's 14 weeks. 198/14 is a smidge over 14 games per week. Oh and the CCG week they have like 5 or 6 games, so that takes the number to about 13.5 per week in the regular season. So I wouldn't say at all that ESPN has more inventory than they can use.

(07-23-2014 01:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  actually reading mattsarz's website- it was 41- but has gone up with the expansion this year.

also have to remember for Big 10- the number of games will change(going to 9 conference games). The most they could have in 2016 is 105- that would mean EVERY ooc game was a home game. So the real number is going to be closer to 90 total. So if BTN got 45 games, that would leave 45 for ESPN/Fox to split.

AS far as your 198 time slots sounding like a lot. It's over 13 weeks. So about 15 per week.
Tue 1 game
Wed 1 game
Thu 2 games(1 espn, 1 espn2 or u)
Fri 1 game
Sat 3 ESPN, 2 ABC, 3 ESPN2, 3 ESPNU, 2 ESPNews. 13 games

so that right there is 18 games pretty easily. Some weekends they could have 4 games on one of the networks(noon, 330, 7, 1030)

And that's on 13 weeks. It's actually either 13 or 14 plus the CCG week. This year it's 14 weeks. 198/14 is a smidge over 14 games per week. Oh and the CCG week they have like 5 or 6 games, so that takes the number to about 13.5 per week in the regular season. So I wouldn't say at all that ESPN has more inventory than they can use.

They usually just do one on ABC. And they like to have some alternative sports programming some of the day, so they probably don't want 3 on both ESPN and ESPN2. So that's 1 + 3 + 2 +3 on ESPNU + 1 spillover on ESPN News for 11 per week and maybe a late night MWC or Pac 12 game on ESPN2 or ESPNU for 12/week. That gets to 168 over 14 weeks. And that 198 is just P5.

(note-I'm pulling the number of games from their press releases-they may have syndicated some or revised some contracts).

Big 10-original contract was "up to" 41 games. If every team averages 7 home games, that leaves 57 for the BTN. Originally, it was "35+."
Pac 12-22 games for Fox and 22 for ESPN. ESPN was primetime Saturday and 8 TH/F, so basically no Pac games in the noon or 4 ET time slot. Balance of games to the Pac 12 Network (7X12=84, less 22 and 22=40 for P12N).
Big 12-one reserved for schools with rest split Fox and ESPN. So that's 30/30/10 for the schools.
ACC-all to ESPN, but 31 were syndicated to Raycom. 14 teams X 7 =98 less 31, leaves 67 for ESPN.
SEC-15 games for CBS and approximately 45 for SECN, leaving 38 for ESPN (14X7-15-45=38).

(07-23-2014 01:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  also have to remember for Big 10- the number of games will change(going to 9 conference games). The most they could have in 2016 is 105- that would mean EVERY ooc game was a home game. So the real number is going to be closer to 90 total. So if BTN got 45 games, that would leave 45 for ESPN/Fox to split.

You forgot that there are 2 more teams. If you assume an average of 7 home games per team, that is 98 total games, 63 conference games. Currently ESPN only gets up to 41 games. So that leaves the rest for the B10N. That can change with their new contract though.

Quote:AS far as your 198 time slots sounding like a lot. It's over 13 weeks. So about 15 per week.
Tue 1 game
Wed 1 game
Thu 2 games(1 espn, 1 espn2 or u)
Fri 1 game
Sat 3 ESPN, 2 ABC, 3 ESPN2, 3 ESPNU, 2 ESPNews. 13 games

so that right there is 18 games pretty easily. Some weekends they could have 4 games on one of the networks(noon, 330, 7, 1030)

The current college football season is really 15 weeks. 14 regular season plus championship week (which currently also includes games for conferences with no championship games. Using the math of your slots above, with 18 games per week (there will actually be two games on Fridays now, and some will have double header's with PAC 12/MWC teams getting a night slot) for 14 weeks, for 252 slots. Add in 7-8 slots on championship weekend and you are at 260. Consider Holidays (Labor Day weekend, Thanksgiving weekend, and you might have 270 slots. More if they choose to make ESPN News a block of games like the rest of the networks, or if the start to use ESPN Classic for live programming (they were going to do that before the bright idea to use ESPN News). You could easily have over 300 slots for games.

That said I just saw your post, so I have no idea what this is in relation to. Just helping you out with your point.

just looking.....
ABC had 36 games last year in 15 weeks. So about 2.4 per week. Only had like 2-3 weeks I think where they aired only 1 game....

Also, you are ignoring non Saturday telecasts. And also some weeks where they show 4 per Saturday.

Finally the 67 games for ACC is very misleading. A lot of that are dreg OOC games that are on ESPN3 only and that's where they belong. So roughly 20 of those slots aren't important.

(07-23-2014 01:35 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 01:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  also have to remember for Big 10- the number of games will change(going to 9 conference games). The most they could have in 2016 is 105- that would mean EVERY ooc game was a home game. So the real number is going to be closer to 90 total. So if BTN got 45 games, that would leave 45 for ESPN/Fox to split.

You forgot that there are 2 more teams. If you assume an average of 7 home games per team, that is 98 total games, 63 conference games. Currently ESPN only gets up to 41 games. So that leaves the rest for the B10N. That can change with their new contract though.

Quote:AS far as your 198 time slots sounding like a lot. It's over 13 weeks. So about 15 per week.
Tue 1 game
Wed 1 game
Thu 2 games(1 espn, 1 espn2 or u)
Fri 1 game
Sat 3 ESPN, 2 ABC, 3 ESPN2, 3 ESPNU, 2 ESPNews. 13 games

so that right there is 18 games pretty easily. Some weekends they could have 4 games on one of the networks(noon, 330, 7, 1030)

The current college football season is really 15 weeks. 14 regular season plus championship week (which currently also includes games for conferences with no championship games. Using the math of your slots above, with 18 games per week (there will actually be two games on Fridays now, and some will have double header's with PAC 12/MWC teams getting a night slot) for 14 weeks, for 252 slots. Add in 7-8 slots on championship weekend and you are at 260. Consider Holidays (Labor Day weekend, Thanksgiving weekend, and you might have 270 slots. More if they choose to make ESPN News a block of games like the rest of the networks, or if the start to use ESPN Classic for live programming (they were going to do that before the bright idea to use ESPN News). You could easily have over 300 slots for games.

That said I just saw your post, so I have no idea what this is in relation to. Just helping you out with your point.

Big Ten-
63 conference games
14*2 OOC games=28 OOC games
91 total games

bottom line ESPN has plenty of room. They hardly are wasting games..

(07-23-2014 01:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Big 10-original contract was "up to" 41 games. If every team averages 7 home games, that leaves 57 for the BTN. Originally, it was "35+."
Pac 12-22 games for Fox and 22 for ESPN. ESPN was primetime Saturday and 8 TH/F, so basically no Pac games in the noon or 4 ET time slot. Balance of games to the Pac 12 Network (7X12=84, less 22 and 22=40 for P12N).
Big 12-one reserved for schools with rest split Fox and ESPN. So that's 30/30/10 for the schools.
ACC-all to ESPN, but 31 were syndicated to Raycom. 14 teams X 7 =98 less 31, leaves 67 for ESPN.
SEC-15 games for CBS and approximately 45 for SECN, leaving 38 for ESPN (14X7-15-45=38).

From Mattsarz's webpage:
With the addition of Maryland and Rutgers in 2014, the number of games available to ESPN will increase from 41 to an undisclosed number.

B10 45
P12 22
B12 30
ACC 50(17 are junk that don't get on)
SEC 40
total of 187

And, you are assuming everyone will get 7 home games. I don't think you can make that assumption- especially in the 9 conf game schedules.

(07-23-2014 08:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  One thing to kind of think about. With SEC games gone to SEC network- Pac 12 and Big 12 games all split up with Fox(and P12 network)- what does that do with regards to the Big Ten negotiations and an actual ACC network. I mean, if ESPN right now is airing around 45-50 Big Ten games. Will ESPN fight harder to keep Big Ten only on ESPN?

If ESPN does lose some Big Ten games to Fox, can ESPN then afford to do an ACC network? I'd kind of think the answer would be no.

Just MHO but I think ESPiN will drop the Big Ten contract once it finishes to concentrate on SEC, B12 & ACC as part of their "Southern Strategy". Fox, NBC and either Turner or CBS will split the Big Ten package. The AAC might get better start times and dates as a consequence of this.

(07-23-2014 04:00 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 08:03 AM)stever20 Wrote:  One thing to kind of think about. With SEC games gone to SEC network- Pac 12 and Big 12 games all split up with Fox(and P12 network)- what does that do with regards to the Big Ten negotiations and an actual ACC network. I mean, if ESPN right now is airing around 45-50 Big Ten games. Will ESPN fight harder to keep Big Ten only on ESPN?

If ESPN does lose some Big Ten games to Fox, can ESPN then afford to do an ACC network? I'd kind of think the answer would be no.

Just MHO but I think ESPiN will drop the Big Ten contract once it finishes to concentrate on SEC, B12 & ACC as part of their "Southern Strategy". Fox, NBC and either Turner or CBS will split the Big Ten package. The AAC might get better start times and dates as a consequence of this.

i respect the B1G because you started your own network and in doing so gave espin the bird.....applause

(07-23-2014 07:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 07:24 AM)chess Wrote:  The Big Ten Network- All the Indiana football you can stuff down your throat.

To be fair, BTN will also be serving up Rutgers, Maryland, and Illinois football...

Quote:Villanova at Syracuse Friday 8/29, 7:30 PM
Delaware at Pittsburgh Saturday 8/30, 12:00 PM
Liberty at North Carolina Saturday 8/30, 6:00 PM
Elon at Duke Saturday 8/30, 6:00 PM
Georgia Southern at NC State Saturday 8/30, 12:30 PM
William & Mary at Virginia Tech Saturday 8/30, 4:00 PM

Wow. What a sad line up. The really sad part of this opening schedule is NC State fans can expect their entire out-of-conference lineup to look the same.

Thank you. I was wondering how long it would take an ECU fan to jump on NCSU. You guys are losing a step!

Of course if the ACC invited ECU...that weekend would improve considerably with North Carolina Central Eagles at ECU

(07-23-2014 01:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 01:35 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  You forgot that there are 2 more teams. If you assume an average of 7 home games per team, that is 98 total games, 63 conference games. Currently ESPN only gets up to 41 games. So that leaves the rest for the B10N. That can change with their new contract though.

Big Ten-
63 conference games
14*2 OOC games=28 OOC games
91 total games

bottom line ESPN has plenty of room. They hardly are wasting games..

So I counted the 9 conference games, but forgot that leaves them with only 3 OOC games. Whoops.

(07-28-2014 08:33 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 01:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 01:35 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  You forgot that there are 2 more teams. If you assume an average of 7 home games per team, that is 98 total games, 63 conference games. Currently ESPN only gets up to 41 games. So that leaves the rest for the B10N. That can change with their new contract though.

Big Ten-
63 conference games
14*2 OOC games=28 OOC games
91 total games

bottom line ESPN has plenty of room. They hardly are wasting games..

So I counted the 9 conference games, but forgot that leaves them with only 3 OOC games. Whoops.

lol

Will be very interesting to see what the Big Ten does. I guess I could see them maybe reducing a smidge the # of Big Ten Network games- but maybe allowing them a few more times where they get better selections- kind of similar to what the Pac 12 has done.

Is there a current affiliate list?