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"Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #1
"Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
More insanity.

But read the part I bolded towards the bottom. Why charge companies carbon fees who will only turn around and charge us more for their products? And then this guy says we'll get back 60% of the carbon fees, so what's the point of the tax in the first place?

Quote:The scientific community is clear: Global warming is real and it is caused by human activity. In terms of droughts, heat waves, floods, forest fires, disease, rising sea levels and extreme weather disturbances, global warming is already causing devastating problems. The simple truth is that if we do not act boldly and quickly these problems will only get much worse in the years to come. Global warming is the greatest environmental threat facing the planet and averting a planetary disaster will require a major reduction in the burning of coal, oil and other fossil fuels.

Meanwhile, the fossil fuel industry for too long has shifted these enormous costs of carbon pollution onto the public, walking away with billions in profits while their emissions help destroy the planet. The top five oil and gas companies alone made over $1 trillion in the past decade. That's over $250 million per day. The fossil fuel industry is destroying the planet with impunity and getting rich while doing it.

That must end.

A carbon tax must be a central part of our strategy for dramatically reducing carbon pollution, a view shared by economists on both ends of the political spectrum, from Arthur Laffer and Gregory Mankiw on the right to Robert Reich and Paul Krugman on the left. In fact, a wide array of unexpected voices support a carbon tax, including former Republican Congressman Bob Inglis, former Treasury Secretaries George Schultz and Robert Rubin, and the four former EPA Administrators, all of whom served under Republican administrations, who testified here in the U.S. Congress just last month.

Why does a carbon tax enjoy this type of support? Why does a carbon tax make so much sense?

For one thing, a carbon tax is the most straight-forward and efficient strategy for quickly reducing greenhouse gas emissions. As the Congressional Budget Office explained in a 2008 report, "A tax on emissions would be the most efficient incentive-based option for reducing emissions and could be relatively easy to implement."

Taxing carbon will also mean that the price of fossil fuels will reflect their real costs to our communities. The dirtier the fuel, the more expensive it will be.

Finally, a carbon tax will help give energy efficiency and renewable energy the level playing field they deserve, making these technologies even more affordable. In fact, as clean energy sources like solar, wind and geothermal become even more accessible their cost will drop even more. And renewable energy isn't subject to the wild price swings of gasoline, fuel oil, propane and other fossil fuels that are so harmful to American families and American businesses.

I am proud to have joined with Sen. Barbara Boxer, the chair of the environment committee in the Senate, in introducing the Climate Protection Act last year. Our legislation, which creates a straightforward carbon and methane fee, is the boldest carbon bill ever introduced. Now is the time to rally the American people in support of this bill.

The carbon fee would apply to only 2,869 of the largest fossil fuel polluters, covering about 85 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that the approach used in our bill will reduce greenhouse gas emissions levels by about 20 percent from 2005 levels by 2025 and will generate $1.2 trillion in revenue over 10 years. Our bill returns 60 percent of that revenue directly to American taxpayers to offset any efforts by the fossil fuel corporations to jack up their prices. The rest of the revenue would support large investments in renewable energy, weatherize a million homes a year (which itself would create hundreds of thousands of jobs and save each household hundreds of dollars a year on their energy bills), fund $1 billion a year in worker training, and put hundreds of billions of dollars into reducing the national debt.

Some of my colleagues here in the Congress are concerned about the cost of transitioning from a dirty, unsustainable, 20th-century energy system to a clean, renewable, 21st-century energy system. But they seem willing to overlook the enormous costs of not making this transition as quickly as possible. Climate change is already imposing enormous costs on consumers and our economy, and those costs will continue to escalate as the impacts of global warming worsen.

It is time for Congress to catch up with the scientific community and with the rest of the country, acknowledge the severity of the climate change crisis, and take bold action to reduce carbon emissions and leave a habitable planet for our grandchildren.

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07-11-2014 09:19 PM
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pharaoh0 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
Renewable energy is not ready for primetime. The problem is that it cost too much(except hydro), given what you get. Second, these members of Congress need to understand that you will always need coal/nuclear to go along with wind, solar, geo. Once the costs associated with alternative energy is competitive with carbon, people will naturally gravitate towards those resources. So, the best thing the government could do would be to get out of the way and let green energy compete with carbon energy.
07-11-2014 10:00 PM
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49RFootballNow Online
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
Your logic offends our one openly Socialist member of Congress.
07-11-2014 10:57 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
Carbon

Tax

Success


British Columbia has had both economic and environmental success with its revenue neutral carbon tax. It's a model worth considering.
07-12-2014 12:03 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #5
RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
Since his first statement is a lie, I thought I'd stop there.
07-12-2014 02:38 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
(07-12-2014 12:03 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Carbon
Tax
Success
British Columbia has had both economic and environmental success with its revenue neutral carbon tax. It's a model worth considering.

Definitely a concept worth exploring.

Some history is worth considering. In the 40s and 50s, LBJ and Sam Rayburn convinced first FDR, then Truman, then Ike, that cheap energy was essential for the US economy, and in order to secure cheap energy and promote domestic production a number of tax breaks were enacted. Now the shoe is somewhat on the other foot, and we need to be conserving energy going forward. So perhaps it is time to reverse things, and this would be one way to do so.

We are probably not going to have a rational energy policy until gasoline gets above $5/gallon.
07-12-2014 03:06 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
Germany is producing 27% of their annual energy using renewables right now. At one point this Spring, they produced 74% of their energy consumption from renewable sources. Renewables have the ability to make up a significant portion of the energy portfolio right now and will continue to become more feasible and more economically rational as technology advances. Those who say renewables aren't ready for prime-time should take a second look.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2014 03:17 PM by UM2001GRAD.)
07-12-2014 03:16 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
(07-12-2014 03:16 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Germany is producing 27% of their annual energy using renewables right now. At one point this Spring, they produced 74% of their energy consumption from renewable sources. Renewables have the ability to make up a significant portion of the energy portfolio right now and will continue to become more feasible and more economically rational as technology advances. Those who say renewables aren't ready for prime-time should take a second look.

I believe those are percentages of electricity, not total energy. We really don't have a viable renewable option for anything more than a small fraction of the 20 million barrels of oil we use per day.

Under current US regulatory standards, renewables make more sense economically in states that have deregulated electricity. Texas currently gets up to 1/3 of its electricity from renewables on windy days.

Agree we need to move in that direction, but we need to be realistic about what can be accomplished.
07-12-2014 03:30 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
(07-12-2014 03:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 03:16 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Germany is producing 27% of their annual energy using renewables right now. At one point this Spring, they produced 74% of their energy consumption from renewable sources. Renewables have the ability to make up a significant portion of the energy portfolio right now and will continue to become more feasible and more economically rational as technology advances. Those who say renewables aren't ready for prime-time should take a second look.

I believe those are percentages of electricity, not total energy. We really don't have a viable renewable option for anything more than a small fraction of the 20 million barrels of oil we use per day.

Under current US regulatory standards, renewables make more sense economically in states that have deregulated electricity. Texas currently gets up to 1/3 of its electricity from renewables on windy days.

Agree we need to move in that direction, but we need to be realistic about what can be accomplished.

You're right. I was being too cavalier with energy/electricity. As for oil use, we don't have to bring that to zero immediately. What we need to do is encourage the expansion of clean energies as much as we feasibly can. That means not only being realistic about what alternatives can do and what they cost, but being realistic about what dirty energies actually cost.
07-12-2014 03:47 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
(07-12-2014 03:47 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 03:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-12-2014 03:16 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Germany is producing 27% of their annual energy using renewables right now. At one point this Spring, they produced 74% of their energy consumption from renewable sources. Renewables have the ability to make up a significant portion of the energy portfolio right now and will continue to become more feasible and more economically rational as technology advances. Those who say renewables aren't ready for prime-time should take a second look.

I believe those are percentages of electricity, not total energy. We really don't have a viable renewable option for anything more than a small fraction of the 20 million barrels of oil we use per day.
Under current US regulatory standards, renewables make more sense economically in states that have deregulated electricity. Texas currently gets up to 1/3 of its electricity from renewables on windy days.
Agree we need to move in that direction, but we need to be realistic about what can be accomplished.
You're right. I was being too cavalier with energy/electricity. As for oil use, we don't have to bring that to zero immediately. What we need to do is encourage the expansion of clean energies as much as we feasibly can. That means not only being realistic about what alternatives can do and what they cost, but being realistic about what dirty energies actually cost.

And see, I'm not even calling you a liar. LOL.

The way I see it, we can probably get rid of up to 2-3 million barrels a day by converting railroads back to electricity, like Europe, and converting fleet usage to natural gas. Fleets make more sense than trying to go with widespread natural gas, because the infrastructure solutions are cheaper and easier, and also because our huge natural gas reserves don't look so huge any more if we started consuming at the rate we consume oil. We can probably replace a like amount with sugar cane ethanol from Latin America and West Africa. Maybe a bit more if we lift the trade restrictions on Cuba. We're still importing in that case, but from closer to home and we have more options, rather than being totally dependent on oil. And creating another cash crop for Latin America probably helps with drugs and illegal immigration. That gets us into the 14-15 million barrels a day range. Then it's a question of how quickly we can get the combination of improvement in electric cars and upgrading our electric infrastructure (which is of course already required for the rail change above). And obviously to the extent we can increase domestic production from the current 8 million barrels a day range, we can reduce imports and improve balance of trade. It could also be useful to pursue solutions to the CO2 problem with coal gasification and liquifaction, because solutions there would give us additional domestic supplies and more flexibility and leverage to deal with price fluctuations. The single biggest thing right now is probably battery technology, because that is the answer to making electric cars practical on a widespread scale.

This is a balanced approach. It's not the only way to go. It's certainly not perfect, but nothing else is either. THe best approach is probably to push all options for now, and switch resources to the most promising answers as time goes on.
07-12-2014 04:02 PM
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Old Dominion Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
But wouldn't much of this conversion require government intervention in the form of tax subsidies and other incentives? Seriously, isn't this contrary to the libertarian view and just another form of socialist intervention?
07-12-2014 07:55 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: "Why We Need a Carbon Tax" by Bernie Sanders, US Senator
(07-12-2014 07:55 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  But wouldn't much of this conversion require government intervention in the form of tax subsidies and other incentives? Seriously, isn't this contrary to the libertarian view and just another form of socialist intervention?

Actually if you removed the current government incentives and deregulated electric rates, a lot of this would happen.
07-12-2014 07:59 PM
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