(07-02-2014 02:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:37 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-01-2014 06:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Next Question

Is your red the same as my red?

Too general a question.

For people with normal vision (you and me) we could both look at red colored swatch and agree that it is red. However, what if your red looks like my green or a shade I am not able to see at all?

Does red look the same to you that it does me.

It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

(07-02-2014 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:37 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-01-2014 06:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Next Question

Is your red the same as my red?

Too general a question.

For people with normal vision (you and me) we could both look at red colored swatch and agree that it is red. However, what if your red looks like my green or a shade I am not able to see at all?

Does red look the same to you that it does me.

It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

You are misunderstanding the question. There is no confusion about the color. We are in agreement that it is red.

Does the red you see resemble the red I see? Does your brain produce a color I've never seen, or would what you call red appear green to me if I could see what you see?

It's octarine.

And if you figure out what color that is, you'll understand considerably more about my opinion on the side track to this thread.

(07-02-2014 03:06 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:37 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-01-2014 06:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Next Question

Is your red the same as my red?

Too general a question.

For people with normal vision (you and me) we could both look at red colored swatch and agree that it is red. However, what if your red looks like my green or a shade I am not able to see at all?

Does red look the same to you that it does me.

It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

You are misunderstanding the question. There is no confusion about the color. We are in agreement that it is red.

Does the red you see resemble the red I see? Does your brain produce a color I've never seen, or would what you call red appear green to me if I could see what you see?

No, not really. In posting these you are generally trying to offer some scientific theory/fact/observation to back up a answer you already know.

If we were in the SAME ROOM with the SAME LIGHTING and the SAME "red" object standing in the same spot then unless either of us is color blind it would look the same.

(07-02-2014 03:21 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:06 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:37 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Too general a question.

For people with normal vision (you and me) we could both look at red colored swatch and agree that it is red. However, what if your red looks like my green or a shade I am not able to see at all?

Does red look the same to you that it does me.

It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

You are misunderstanding the question. There is no confusion about the color. We are in agreement that it is red.

Does the red you see resemble the red I see? Does your brain produce a color I've never seen, or would what you call red appear green to me if I could see what you see?

No, not really. In posting these you are generally trying to offer some scientific theory/fact/observation to back up a answer you already know.

If we were in the SAME ROOM with the SAME LIGHTING and the SAME "red" object standing in the same spot then unless either of us is color blind it would look the same.

yes. We are both in a controlled environment with controlled lighting. We are standing two fee from each other and we are handed a red swatch. Like this:


We both agree that it is red. BUT...does your red look like my red in your mind? What if what you always associated as red looked like blue in my mind.
If you are inserting more variables like distance and lighting...you are not understanding the question. Assume that we both see the same image clearly and under the same setting.

(07-02-2014 03:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:21 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:06 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  For people with normal vision (you and me) we could both look at red colored swatch and agree that it is red. However, what if your red looks like my green or a shade I am not able to see at all?

Does red look the same to you that it does me.

It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

You are misunderstanding the question. There is no confusion about the color. We are in agreement that it is red.

Does the red you see resemble the red I see? Does your brain produce a color I've never seen, or would what you call red appear green to me if I could see what you see?

No, not really. In posting these you are generally trying to offer some scientific theory/fact/observation to back up a answer you already know.

If we were in the SAME ROOM with the SAME LIGHTING and the SAME "red" object standing in the same spot then unless either of us is color blind it would look the same.

yes. We are both in a controlled environment with controlled lighting. We are standing two fee from each other and we are handed a red swatch. Like this:


We both agree that it is red. BUT...does your red look like my red in your mind? What if what you always associated as red looked like blue in my mind.
If you are inserting more variables like distance and lighting...you are not understanding the question. Assume that we both see the same image clearly and under the same setting.

Since we're discussing this question via the internet, you have to take into account the quality, refresh rate, and resolution of the various monitors available. Depending on the age, resolution, and and refresh rate, the shade a person sees could vary quite a bit.

(07-02-2014 04:04 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:21 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:06 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

You are misunderstanding the question. There is no confusion about the color. We are in agreement that it is red.

Does the red you see resemble the red I see? Does your brain produce a color I've never seen, or would what you call red appear green to me if I could see what you see?

No, not really. In posting these you are generally trying to offer some scientific theory/fact/observation to back up a answer you already know.

If we were in the SAME ROOM with the SAME LIGHTING and the SAME "red" object standing in the same spot then unless either of us is color blind it would look the same.

yes. We are both in a controlled environment with controlled lighting. We are standing two fee from each other and we are handed a red swatch. Like this:


We both agree that it is red. BUT...does your red look like my red in your mind? What if what you always associated as red looked like blue in my mind.
If you are inserting more variables like distance and lighting...you are not understanding the question. Assume that we both see the same image clearly and under the same setting.

Since we're discussing this question via the internet, you have to take into account the quality, refresh rate, and resolution of the various monitors available. Depending on the age, resolution, and and refresh rate, the shade a person sees could vary quite a bit.

color is an illusion. It is generated in the mind...not in the physical world.

(07-02-2014 04:04 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:21 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 03:06 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 02:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It also depends on your speed in relation to the object in question. It could be blue shifted if you're moving at the object in question at a good percentage of the speed of light, or red shifted if you're moving away from the object in question. This will result in a changing of the shade up or down the spectrum. There are many other factors to take into account that could result in confusion about the color in question.

You are misunderstanding the question. There is no confusion about the color. We are in agreement that it is red.

Does the red you see resemble the red I see? Does your brain produce a color I've never seen, or would what you call red appear green to me if I could see what you see?

No, not really. In posting these you are generally trying to offer some scientific theory/fact/observation to back up a answer you already know.

If we were in the SAME ROOM with the SAME LIGHTING and the SAME "red" object standing in the same spot then unless either of us is color blind it would look the same.

yes. We are both in a controlled environment with controlled lighting. We are standing two fee from each other and we are handed a red swatch. Like this:


We both agree that it is red. BUT...does your red look like my red in your mind? What if what you always associated as red looked like blue in my mind.
If you are inserting more variables like distance and lighting...you are not understanding the question. Assume that we both see the same image clearly and under the same setting.

Since we're discussing this question via the internet, you have to take into account the quality, refresh rate, and resolution of the various monitors available. Depending on the age, resolution, and and refresh rate, the shade a person sees could vary quite a bit.

I was about to go there and then you would also have the color settings of said monitor, and tech of the monitor itself.

(07-02-2014 04:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  color is an illusion. It is generated in the mind...not in the physical world.

So what is paint? Paint is physical. Mixing paint colors isn't the same thing as mixing light colors. And actually, how could color be an illusion? Light absorbs and reflects off any given object (sans a black hole), so whatever makes up an item constitutes what colors it will absorb and reflect.

(07-02-2014 04:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  color is an illusion. It is generated in the mind...not in the physical world.

So what is paint? Paint is physical. Mixing paint colors isn't the same thing as mixing light colors. And actually, how could color be an illusion? Light absorbs and reflects off any given object (sans a black hole), so whatever makes up an item constitutes what colors it will absorb and reflect.

Objects only have pigment molecules. The density of those molecules dictate what light frequencies they absorb or reflect. Our brain translates that light into color. Objects do not emit color. They emit light.

Obviously both of our brains produce an image we both identify as red. But do they look the same if we could swap that image in our mind?

(07-02-2014 04:27 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  color is an illusion. It is generated in the mind...not in the physical world.

So what is paint? Paint is physical. Mixing paint colors isn't the same thing as mixing light colors. And actually, how could color be an illusion? Light absorbs and reflects off any given object (sans a black hole), so whatever makes up an item constitutes what colors it will absorb and reflect.

Objects only have pigment molecules. The density of those molecules dictate what light frequencies they absorb or reflect. Our brain translates that light into color. Objects do not emit color. They emit light.

Obviously both of our brains produce an image we both identify as red. But do they look the same if we could swap that image in our mind?

Once again you are wrong. Color depends on light absorption, not emission. Each molecule absorbs certain frequencies in the light spectrum, which determines their color. Change the molecules in the air, and you change the air's color, while the sunlight passing through the air remains unchanged.

(07-02-2014 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:27 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  color is an illusion. It is generated in the mind...not in the physical world.

So what is paint? Paint is physical. Mixing paint colors isn't the same thing as mixing light colors. And actually, how could color be an illusion? Light absorbs and reflects off any given object (sans a black hole), so whatever makes up an item constitutes what colors it will absorb and reflect.

Objects only have pigment molecules. The density of those molecules dictate what light frequencies they absorb or reflect. Our brain translates that light into color. Objects do not emit color. They emit light.

Obviously both of our brains produce an image we both identify as red. But do they look the same if we could swap that image in our mind?

Once again you are wrong. Color depends on light absorption, not emission. Each molecule absorbs certain frequencies in the light spectrum, which determines their color. Change the molecules in the air, and you change the air's color, while the sunlight passing through the air remains unchanged.

Listen up bubba. Air does not affect pigment. Pigment dictates what light is reflected and absorbed. Color is generated in the mind. The bold part of your post would indicate you are trying to troll. If so, I can simply put you on ignore.

Participate if you wish. Otherwise, kindly bow out.

(07-02-2014 05:00 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:27 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  color is an illusion. It is generated in the mind...not in the physical world.

So what is paint? Paint is physical. Mixing paint colors isn't the same thing as mixing light colors. And actually, how could color be an illusion? Light absorbs and reflects off any given object (sans a black hole), so whatever makes up an item constitutes what colors it will absorb and reflect.

Objects only have pigment molecules. The density of those molecules dictate what light frequencies they absorb or reflect. Our brain translates that light into color. Objects do not emit color. They emit light.

Obviously both of our brains produce an image we both identify as red. But do they look the same if we could swap that image in our mind?

Once again you are wrong. Color depends on light absorption, not emission. Each molecule absorbs certain frequencies in the light spectrum, which determines their color. Change the molecules in the air, and you change the air's color, while the sunlight passing through the air remains unchanged.

Listen up bubba. Air does not affect pigment. Pigment dictates what light is reflected and absorbed. Color is generated in the mind. The bold part of your post would indicate you are trying to troll. If so, I can simply put you on ignore.

Participate if you wish. Otherwise, kindly bow out.

WRONG! Read up yourself on why.

Why is the sky blue?

(07-02-2014 06:06 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 05:00 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:27 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 04:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  So what is paint? Paint is physical. Mixing paint colors isn't the same thing as mixing light colors. And actually, how could color be an illusion? Light absorbs and reflects off any given object (sans a black hole), so whatever makes up an item constitutes what colors it will absorb and reflect.

Objects only have pigment molecules. The density of those molecules dictate what light frequencies they absorb or reflect. Our brain translates that light into color. Objects do not emit color. They emit light.

Obviously both of our brains produce an image we both identify as red. But do they look the same if we could swap that image in our mind?

Once again you are wrong. Color depends on light absorption, not emission. Each molecule absorbs certain frequencies in the light spectrum, which determines their color. Change the molecules in the air, and you change the air's color, while the sunlight passing through the air remains unchanged.

Listen up bubba. Air does not affect pigment. Pigment dictates what light is reflected and absorbed. Color is generated in the mind. The bold part of your post would indicate you are trying to troll. If so, I can simply put you on ignore.

Participate if you wish. Otherwise, kindly bow out.

WRONG! Read up yourself on why.

Why is the sky blue?

Look pal. If your variable had any validity in regards to this question, non of us would be able to agree on any color.

The premise is already set. Everyone agrees that two people can agree an object is red. Pull your head out and examine the question.

Either you are a troll or just too dense to comprehend the question. Either way, your resistance is useless. It's something to ponder, yet you can't get passed a false variable.

I'd explain it further, but I doubt you'd get it.

I can agree that a red object is a red object, no matter the shade of red. But you never asked the question in that manner. You wanted an argument. So I obliged you.

However, you started pulling stuff out of your ( ! ) that was incorrect. So I pointed that error out. And then you didn't like it when I corrected your error. So you pulled out another incorrect assumption, which I then corrected. I notice you didn't like that either.

But this whole argument started when you said I couldn't agree with you about whether or not a red object was red. So I went along with it, for the sake of argument. But color is not in the mind, no matter what you think. It's in the way our eyes are constructed to perceive images. Our brain merely interprets the information it is given by the optic receptors within the eye, which are attuned only to red, green, and blue.

(07-02-2014 07:02 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I can agree that a red object is a red object, no matter the shade of red. But you never asked the question in that manner. You wanted an argument. So I obliged you.

However, you started pulling stuff out of your ( ! ) that was incorrect. So I pointed that error out. And then you didn't like it when I corrected your error. So you pulled out another incorrect assumption, which I then corrected. I notice you didn't like that either.

But this whole argument started when you said I couldn't agree with you about whether or not a red object was red. So I went along with it, for the sake of argument. But color is not in the mind, no matter what you think. It's in the way our eyes are constructed to perceive images. Our brain merely interprets the information it is given by the optic receptors within the eye, which are attuned only to red, green, and blue.

1. This was not an argument
2. You have struggled with comprehension this entire thread
3. Nothing I posted has been incorrect.
4. You have presented yourself as incompetent.

You are referring to cone cells in the retina. Cone cells contain different levels of pigment to match different wave lengths of light. They are what help the brain discern different colors by measuring the visible wavelengths of light. Color is manufactured in the brain. That is not debatable...that is fact

Now, the question is...does the red that your brain produces look the same as the red my brain manufactures...regardless of lighting or smoke or rain or whatever nonsense variable you want to add?

Go

The wavelength of light detected depends upon the medium through which that light travels. The makeup of our atmosphere determines the wavelengths that get through, and those that don't determine the color of the sky. Change the gases involved, and the wavelength of light that gets through changes, changing the color we perceive, as well as the color of the light illuminating any object within the atmosphere. The eye is irrelevant here.

The spectrum of light that is scattered - or absorbed - by the atmosphere is important in the determination of the color of the sky, and the color of the light that illuminates the object in question. All of this effects the color we perceive. You are looking at one aspect, focusing solely on that, while ignoring the rest. All are important. I don't know why you fail to grasp that concept.

At any rate, if you aren't able to comprehend what I'm trying to get through to you, let's just agree to disagree. I'm tired of arguing about this . It's unproductive.

(07-02-2014 09:53 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The wavelength of light detected depends upon the medium through which that light travels. The makeup of our atmosphere determines the wavelengths that get through, and those that don't determine the color of the sky. Change the gases involved, and the wavelength of light that gets through changes, changing the color we perceive, as well as the color of the light illuminating any object within the atmosphere. The eye is irrelevant here.

The spectrum of light that is scattered - or absorbed - by the atmosphere is important in the determination of the color of the sky, and the color of the light that illuminates the object in question. All of this effects the color we perceive. You are looking at one aspect, focusing solely on that, while ignoring the rest. All are important. I don't know why you fail to grasp that concept.

At any rate, if you aren't able to comprehend what I'm trying to get through to you, let's just agree to disagree. I'm tired of arguing about this . It's unproductive.

I'll PM you a source.

Either way we see the light that is reflected - if it's a red wall we see the red light that is reflected. Even if it's air, we see the light that is reflected, typically blue, unless we're looking directly at the sun.