They would be appalled by the size of the government and the overreaching of the government. They would say that we've turned into Britain of 1776.

(06-27-2014 06:51 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  They would be appalled by the size of the government and the overreaching of the government. They would say that we've turned into Britain of 1776.

And probably that Britain is most like the nation they hoped to create.

The size and complexity of the Internal Revenue Code.

Wouldn't the concept of a "stateless enemy," i.e. the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc. be completely alien to them?

(I also think they'd be disgusted at our refusal to ever change the things we complain about.)

(06-28-2014 12:58 AM)JSF Wrote:  Wouldn't the concept of a "stateless enemy," i.e. the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc. be completely alien to them?

(I also think they'd be disgusted at our refusal to ever change the things we complain about.)

Pirates.

Think by the end of the day they would wonder why such a small country back then could
have such great thinkers compared to this huge monster of a country now that really has
so few lucid thoughts.

(06-28-2014 08:32 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Think by the end of the day they would wonder why such a small country back then could
have such great thinkers compared to this huge monster of a country now that really has
so few lucid thoughts.

This ^^^^^

(06-28-2014 07:42 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 12:58 AM)JSF Wrote:  Wouldn't the concept of a "stateless enemy," i.e. the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc. be completely alien to them?

(I also think they'd be disgusted at our refusal to ever change the things we complain about.)

Pirates.

Good one. But I don't think it's quite the same as terrorist organizations. Pirates were just trying to make a living, y'know?

(06-28-2014 07:42 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 12:58 AM)JSF Wrote:  Wouldn't the concept of a "stateless enemy," i.e. the Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc. be completely alien to them?

(I also think they'd be disgusted at our refusal to ever change the things we complain about.)

Pirates.

It is a very interesting parallel in history. The newly established US had to deal with pirate ships and crews from the North African states of Tripoli, Tunis, Morrocco and Algiers (the Barbary Coast). The "Barbary Pirates" were Muslim.

In the early days of the nation, Congress followed the tradition of Europe and appropriated yearly tribute to the Barbary states. A young Thomas Jefferson (at the time Minister to France) basically put his foot down and convinced everyone it would be cheaper to build up our Navy than to pay the pirates tribute. We continued to pay tribute to the pirates but we also built up our Navy. By the time Jefferson became president in 1801 he put a stop to it. Tripoli declared war on the US and Jefferson dispatched vessels to fight them. The American show of forced weakened the coalition of the various pirate regimes. We fought them for a period of five years but eventually won the day.

Native American tribes normally were stateless tribes that had to be wooed back in the time of the founding fathers by enticements to get them to move in the right direction.

During the time of Andrew Jackson the move was to cleanse the Southeast from the tribes. In Florida the Natives were restless and fought a Vietnam style guerrilla war against the US government. There were 3 Seminole Wars in 1814-1819, 1835-1842, 1855-1858. The summer conditions were so intense that the US had to take a break in operations during the summer months.

It wasn't until the 1920's that the last military battles with the Native American tribes were fought out West. It was a 300 year process of subduing the continent. There are still conflicts that vary in significance from tribe to tribe. Some tribes made out ok on land deals like the ones in the Coachella Valley that own most of Palm Springs. Then you have the Navejo Code Talkers in WWII. It was a mixed relationship between the Native Americans and US Government over the years.

(06-27-2014 07:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 06:51 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  They would be appalled by the size of the government and the overreaching of the government. They would say that we've turned into Britain of 1776.

And probably that Britain is most like the nation they hoped to create.

Britain is kind of a crap hole.

There is a reason why punk rock originated from Britain. It sucks.

And America invented disco, which is far worse than punk rock IMO. So what's your point?

BTW, I've been to Britain, and have seen far worse in the USA. Have you ever been there? Or for that matter, have you seen much of this nation? I've traveled around the world, and found that people are pretty much the same the world over. The only thing that changes is the language or accent. But human nature never changes. More's the pity.

(06-29-2014 08:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Native American tribes normally were stateless tribes that had to be wooed back in the time of the founding fathers by enticements to get them to move in the right direction.

During the time of Andrew Jackson the move was to cleanse the Southeast from the tribes. In Florida the Natives were restless and fought a Vietnam style guerrilla war against the US government. There were 3 Seminole Wars in 1814-1819, 1835-1842, 1855-1858. The summer conditions were so intense that the US had to take a break in operations during the summer months.

It wasn't until the 1920's that the last military battles with the Native American tribes were fought out West. It was a 300 year process of subduing the continent. There are still conflicts that vary in significance from tribe to tribe. Some tribes made out ok on land deals like the ones in the Coachella Valley that own most of Palm Springs. Then you have the Navejo Code Talkers in WWII. It was a mixed relationship between the Native Americans and US Government over the years.

And the continent was finally subdued when most of the native population had been killed off, or herded into prisons called reservations.

(06-29-2014 10:43 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  And America invented disco, which is far worse than punk rock IMO. So what's your point?

BTW, I've been to Britain, and have seen far worse in the USA. Have you ever been there? Or for that matter, have you seen much of this nation? I've traveled around the world, and found that people are pretty much the same the world over. The only thing that changes is the language or accent. But human nature never changes. More's the pity.

Agreed that people are fundamentally the same in any culture. That is why I'm not a big fan international travel for the sake of culture. Going to see some amazing natural wonders or for something you really enjoy like a yearly trip to Iceland spas in the summer or hunting elk in Canada then it also makes sense. There are people in America who refuse to see most of the country because to them its all one culture. They need to be somewhere where they don't understand the language to count as travel.

I've never have been to Britain but I've watched a lot of films set there along with TV shows in different parts of the country and in different English cities. My conclusion is that its crap hole. I had I guy I worked with one time who left Great Britain because of the Lloyd administration nationalized the trucking industry. He couldn't make any money over there. The seeds of discontent were there to get the Punk Rock movement going.

Punk may have began in England but a lot of that genre moved into the New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Europe in general gravitated toward metal while America led by distribution networks of Fugazi and Bad Religion had pop punk blow up and become the driving force behind music. Punk and Christianity share that common feature; they started in Europe but now America owns the worldwide movement.

Disco I don't know even qualifies as a true genre since its a mixture of funk and R&B contemporary to the late 70's. It was more the dance and social culture in the Disco scene that earned its reputation more than the sound per se.

TV is NOT real life, no matter which country produces it. Imagine the opinions of people around the world who only see America through American TV. You and I both know it holds no relevance to real American life. Real people don't act that way.

So I have no idea why you think British TV is indicative to life in Britain. It isn't. Trust me.

However I do like the fact that British TV and movies have people who actually LOOK like real people, unlike American TV. Although every so often an American actor or actress comes along that looks real, instead of looking like they just stepped out of some beauty pageant or body builder magazine. But for the most part, American actors look nothing like real life. There aren't that many beautiful people in real life. At least the Brits are honest enough to recognize that fact. They pick actors on talent alone, not looks.

(06-27-2014 06:13 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 04:47 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What a troll is.

A man who interjects into a conversation, when he has nothing constructive to say. So he tries to be cute, and ends up being a smarta*s instead.

Get real. None of the posts on here are going to accomplish anything, hence are not constructive. Anyway, I was kidding - but for those that take themselves and this message board FAR too seriously, I'm sure that was hard to figure out.

(06-29-2014 06:46 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 06:13 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 04:47 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What a troll is.

A man who interjects into a conversation, when he has nothing constructive to say. So he tries to be cute, and ends up being a smarta*s instead.

Get real. None of the posts on here are going to accomplish anything, hence are not constructive. Anyway, I was kidding - but for those that take themselves and this message board FAR too seriously, I'm sure that was hard to figure out.

Your sarcasm meter must be broken. I thought we were playing Jeopardy.

(06-20-2014 01:20 PM)john01992 Wrote:  what would be the hardest things to explain to them?

id say:

1. US/UK/NATO all being allies

2. the concept that no race/religion is inferior to another and that notion is accepted by > 90% of americans

3. the US being the lone world super power

4. The size of the federal govt and it not being considered tyranny or a dictatorship

#4 would be incomprehensible to them. (As, indeed, it is incomprehensible to many people now alive).

The other 3 would probably raise an eyebrow but could be viewed as a part of the natural progression of change.

(07-01-2014 11:51 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 01:20 PM)john01992 Wrote:  what would be the hardest things to explain to them?

id say:

1. US/UK/NATO all being allies

2. the concept that no race/religion is inferior to another and that notion is accepted by > 90% of americans

3. the US being the lone world super power

4. The size of the federal govt and it not being considered tyranny or a dictatorship

#4 would be incomprehensible to them. (As, indeed, it is incomprehensible to many people now alive).

The other 3 would probably raise an eyebrow but could be viewed as a part of the natural progression of change.

Agree.

Would add regarding 4 that the concentration of power in the executive branch and executive agencies would astonish them, as it does me.

If the founding fathers showed up in 2014 America, they would certainly have trouble comprehending our modern way of life. They would be amazed at the technology we have created, and astonished by our nation's position of leadership in the world over the last hundred years, but they would probably hate the politicians and the overall population of our country. As a people, we are far removed from what the country was when they lived, and probably not the future they envisioned.

They would be amazed at the world we live in. People can b!tch all they want about the government. The so called founding fathers wouldn't give a second thought about the government after they saw a television , or a car.