Had social media & camera phones existed back then??

I'm going to say yes because China obviously didn't give a sh*t. Perhaps the massacre would've led to a revolt if there were camera phones and such.

(06-04-2014 10:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Had social media & camera phones existed back then??

No.... I don't believe it would have been different.

i think it would have been much different. IMO social media/camera phones played a pivotal role with the arab spring and we would of seen similar results in china

I don't know if we can compare China to the Arab spring. Different circumstances and different reasons for uprising and such.

(06-04-2014 11:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I don't know if we can compare China to the Arab spring. Different circumstances and different reasons for uprising and such.

yes there are differences, however it is now exponentially harder to contain information which makes a critical difference when it comes to crushing govt opposition.

(06-05-2014 12:15 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 11:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I don't know if we can compare China to the Arab spring. Different circumstances and different reasons for uprising and such.

yes there are differences, however it is now exponentially harder to contain information which makes a critical difference when it comes to crushing govt opposition.

But it wasn't contained. There is video of Tiananmen Square, to say nothing of all the bystanders that watched as well. For all of the 'social awareness' surrounding the Arab Spring, what positive changes have occurred in the region? Power still remains in the hands of the corrupt and religious zealots.

Wouldn't have made much difference. The government has bigger guns than the protesters and the Chinese government has no qualms of using them. The only thing that would have been magnified is global outrage.

Arab spring was orchestrated by the West and none of the governments overthrown have near the military or political power of China. Apples and oranges.

(06-05-2014 07:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Wouldn't have made much difference. The government has bigger guns than the protesters and the Chinese government has no qualms of using them. The only thing that would have been magnified is global outrage.

Arab spring was orchestrated by the West and none of the governments overthrown have near the military or political power of China. Apples and oranges.

The end result would have probably been the same; however, many many more Chinese would have seen the shootings etc via social media. Today, most kids in China have no idea June 4 ever even occured.

If the question is whether or not greater exposure would have led to a different outcome - I say no. Chinese culture traditionally values the welfare of the collective rather than that of individuals, and the protesters would have most likely been seen as individual actors threatening the collective.

But this question doesn't simply mention greater exposure. It mentions a specific type of exposure: social media. Therefore, we should tackle the question of "has social media led to a greater value being placed on the individual rather than the collective?" to determine how the Chinese populace would have reacted differently (if at all).

#notanks

I don't think that would have helped.

(06-04-2014 11:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think it would have been much different. IMO social media/camera phones played a pivotal role with the arab spring and we would of seen similar results in china

You cant compare the PLA and Chinese communist party to the govts in the Middle East... The chicoms are quite a bit more organized and based less on a personality. There is no dictator in China, just a dictatorial system, that system would have crushed the rebellion w or w/o cell phones.

(06-05-2014 07:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Wouldn't have made much difference. The government has bigger guns than the protesters and the Chinese government has no qualms of using them. The only thing that would have been magnified is global outrage.

Arab spring was orchestrated by the West and none of the governments overthrown have near the military or political power of China. Apples and oranges.

This... And at the time it happened China was not so dependent on international trade.

It would have changed nothing. The Chinese are a very insular people, and the government would have not been swayed in the least by social media, or world wide outrage. There was plenty of world wide outrage already from the TV coverage of the event, which China was unable to prevent.

I don't believe the Chinese Government's reaction to it would have been any different; but the rest of the world would have reacted much more negatively to actual proof of a massacre. I could see much harsher economic sanctions being imposed on China than what was done at the time. Also, China had yet to be the major economic factor then that it would be in the coming years.