(06-05-2014 03:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 02:30 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  [quote='ken d' pid='10810185' dateline='1401986558']
Other P5 wannabes include UCF ($18 million true revenue) and Houston ($16 million). IMO, this says to me they have no place in the P5. A school that appears not to even have a place in the FBS is UMass, with a revenue of under $6 million and expenses of $31 million. What are they thinking?

True. A valid point. But how much of that is conference revenue? In the case of both Houston and UCF, it was around $2M from CUSA. supplant that with say a $20M revenue stream from a conference such as the XII, and now you're looking at UCF or Houston earning around $35M each. Now that's much more in the ballpark of a P5 school. It's still a little short, but one would think that ticket sales and contributions would go up with a conference move as well.

The most recent tax filing I can find for CUSA has UH getting 3,542,904 for the 2011-12 year and UCF getting 2,851,558.

All of CUSA averaged 3.1 million with the highest (USM) getting 4.159 million and the lowest (Tulane) getting 2.47 million.

2,470,912 Tulane
2,505,389 Rice
2,675,154 UAB
2,704,073 UTEP
2,851,558 UCF
2,894,776 ECU
3,231,762 Memphis
3,405,685 Marshall
3,542,904 Houston
3,546,511 Tulsa
3,612,591 SMU
4,159,637 Southern Miss

Subtracting these amounts from the Big 12's 22 million for the 8 original members during the 12-13 year (which USA Today's numbers come from) gives the following boost to each school.

Tulane 19,529,088
Rice 19,494,611
UAB 19,324,846
UTEP 19,295,927
UCF 19,148,442
ECU 19,105,224
Memphis 18,768,238
Marshall 18,594,315
Houston 18,457,096
Tulsa 18,453,489
SMU 18,387,409
So Miss 17,840,363

So it would help but I would think that at least some of the tv money would go toward reducing the dependency on 26mm subsidy for UH or the 22.8 subsidy at UCF.

(06-05-2014 03:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 02:30 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 11:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  Other P5 wannabes include UCF ($18 million true revenue) and Houston ($16 million). IMO, this says to me they have no place in the P5. A school that appears not to even have a place in the FBS is UMass, with a revenue of under $6 million and expenses of $31 million. What are they thinking?

True. A valid point. But how much of that is conference revenue? In the case of both Houston and UCF, it was around $2M from CUSA. supplant that with say a $20M revenue stream from a conference such as the XII, and now you're looking at UCF or Houston earning around $35M each. Now that's much more in the ballpark of a P5 school. It's still a little short, but one would think that ticket sales and contributions would go up with a conference move as well.

If you want to measure against the Big 12, the reasonable measure is against the newest members, TCU and WVU. Looking at the newest members is probably the best way to answer the question, "What's it going to take to get in this league today?"

WVU, on this USA Today list, has annual revenue of $77.7 million ($4.4 million of that is "subsidy"), and TCU is at $71.9 million per the federal government's Equity in Athletics database. Both TCU and WVU are still being shorted by the Big 12 in revenue distribution and won't get full shares until, IIRC, 2014-15, so they might each go up another $5-10 million after they start getting full revenue shares.

OK. WVU has been in an AQ conference from the beginning. They were not really "moving up" in the same sense that TCU was. Now TCU is a fair comparison, though, but they are private and have had money for a long time too. I was thinking more along the lines of Utah. Utah without their subsidy and assumingly only getting a partial share in the PAC is at $36M in true revenue.

(06-05-2014 06:49 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 03:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 02:30 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 11:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  Other P5 wannabes include UCF ($18 million true revenue) and Houston ($16 million). IMO, this says to me they have no place in the P5. A school that appears not to even have a place in the FBS is UMass, with a revenue of under $6 million and expenses of $31 million. What are they thinking?

True. A valid point. But how much of that is conference revenue? In the case of both Houston and UCF, it was around $2M from CUSA. supplant that with say a $20M revenue stream from a conference such as the XII, and now you're looking at UCF or Houston earning around $35M each. Now that's much more in the ballpark of a P5 school. It's still a little short, but one would think that ticket sales and contributions would go up with a conference move as well.

If you want to measure against the Big 12, the reasonable measure is against the newest members, TCU and WVU. Looking at the newest members is probably the best way to answer the question, "What's it going to take to get in this league today?"

WVU, on this USA Today list, has annual revenue of $77.7 million ($4.4 million of that is "subsidy"), and TCU is at $71.9 million per the federal government's Equity in Athletics database. Both TCU and WVU are still being shorted by the Big 12 in revenue distribution and won't get full shares until, IIRC, 2014-15, so they might each go up another $5-10 million after they start getting full revenue shares.

OK. WVU has been in an AQ conference from the beginning. They were not really "moving up" in the same sense that TCU was. Now TCU is a fair comparison, though, but they are private and have had money for a long time too. I was thinking more along the lines of Utah. Utah without their subsidy and assumingly only getting a partial share in the PAC is at $36M in true revenue.

If this is 2012-13 academic year data, Utah received a half-share of $10 million or so of Pac revenue that year. (Other Pac schools received less than $20 million because the Pac paid to buy out each school's pre-network Tier 3 media rights, and then subtracted that money from the school's 2012-13 Pac-12 share.)

The top 5 or 10 G5 programs could generate revenue like Utah did before joining the Pac. Whether that's enough depends on whether the circumstances are as fortunate as they were for Utah -- the conference needed a 12th team to go with Colorado, the western options are extremely limited, the only other viable option was a school whose restrictions on academic freedom make Pac presidents uncomfortable, etc.

Info From Equity in Athletics

Total Revenues by Team

001.) The University of Texas at Austin - $165,691,486
002.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $146,366,405
003.) The University of Alabama - $143,393,059
004.) University of Florida - $129,505,644
005.) University of Oklahoma Norman - $123,805,661
006.) Ohio State University - $123,604,626
007.) University of Michigan-Ann Arbor - $122,742,252
008.) Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College - $117,457,398
009.) The University of Tennessee - $109,925,351
010.) University of Notre Dame - $108,509,683

011.) University of Iowa - $106,703,779
012.) Pennsylvania State University - $104,751,468
013.) Auburn University - $102,864,769
014.) University of Arkansas - $99,769,099
015.) University of Minnesota-Twin Cities - $98,203,198
016.) University of Georgia - $98,120,889
017.) University of Southern California - $97,802,254
018.) University of Louisville - $96,193,329
019.) University of Kansas - $93,114,168
020.) University of California-Berkeley - $91,815,125

021.) Stanford University - $90,490,234
022.) University of South Carolina-Columbia - $90,484,422
023.) Florida State University - $89,145,159
024.) University of Nebraska-Lincoln - $86,916,001
025.) University of Kentucky - $86,570,579
026.) University of Washington-Seattle - $85,072,886
027.) University of Virginia - $84,402,712
028.) University of California-Los Angeles - $83,926,720
029.) University of Oregon - $81,374,469
030.) Michigan State University - $79,369,587

031.) Texas A & M University-College Station - $78,530,133
032.) Baylor University - $78,412,938
033.) University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - $78,141,093
034.) West Virginia University - $77,706,696
035.) Oklahoma State University - $76,638,487
036.) Duke University - $76,366,113
037.) Syracuse University - $76,329,618
038.) Indiana University-Bloomington - $75,738,695
039.) Purdue University - $74,481,250
040.) North Carolina State University at Raleigh - $73,446,347

041.) Texas Christian University - $71,932,668
042.) Rutgers University-New Brunswick - $71,851,419
043.) University of Missouri-Columbia - $71,149,002
044.) Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University - $69,845,483
045.) Kansas State University - $69,250,204
046.) Clemson University - $68,163,948
047.) University of Miami - $67,253,273
048.) Northwestern University - $66,413,894
049.) University of Arizona - $66,327,515
050.) University of Colorado Boulder - $66,327,498

051.) University of Mississippi - $66,233,842
052.) University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - $65,967,262
053.) Arizona State University - $63,770,785
054.) Georgia Institute of Technology - $63,630,964
055.) University of Connecticut - $63,374,981
056.) Iowa State University - $62,357,760
057.) Texas Tech University - $62,087,832
058.) Mississippi State University - $62,004,404
059.) Vanderbilt University - $61,122,469
060.) Boston College - $60,770,300

061.) Oregon State University - $60,193,022
062.) University of Maryland-College Park - $58,107,950
063.) University of Pittsburgh - $57,606,235
064.) Brigham Young University-Provo - $54,644,578
065.) Southern Methodist University - $52,029,002
066.) University of Utah - $51,792,903
067.) Washington State University - $50,154,279
068.) Wake Forest University - $48,830,266
069.) University of South Florida - $45,102,784
070.) University of Cincinnati - $45,065,244

071.) University of Memphis - $43,148,158
072.) San Diego State University - $42,380,968
073.) University of Central Florida - $41,957,141
074.) Temple University - $41,558,322
075.) Old Dominion University - $36,929,483
076.) University of Houston - $35,514,862
077.) East Carolina University - $35,459,448
078.) University of Hawaii at Manoa - $33,971,200
079.) Boise State University - $33,219,370
080.) University of Tulsa - $32,541,245

081.) Colorado State University-Fort Collins - $32,535,454
082.) Rice University - $32,294,612
083.) University of Nevada-Las Vegas - $32,288,243
084.) University of New Mexico - $32,146,734
085.) California State University-Fresno - $32,016,817
086.) Texas State University-San Marcos - $30,469,793
087.) University of Wyoming - $29,731,941
088.) Tulane University of Louisiana - $29,441,104
089.) Miami University-Oxford - $28,955,007
090.) University at Buffalo - $28,661,287

091.) University of Massachusetts Amherst - $28,659,514
092.) Florida International University - $28,332,259
093.) Central Michigan University - $27,680,624
094.) University of Alabama at Birmingham - $27,430,624
095.) Ohio University - $27,265,061
096.) University of Akron - $26,479,926
097.) Western Kentucky University - $26,109,720
098.) University of North Texas - $25,910,370
099.) Kent State University at Kent - $25,871,038
100.) San Jose State University - $25,854,038

101.) Marshall University - $25,724,120
102.) The University of Texas at El Paso - $25,723,452
103.) Western Michigan University - $25,458,301
104.) University of Nevada-Reno - $25,404,564
105.) Middle Tennessee State University - $24,845,231
106.) The University of Texas at San Antonio - $24,828,401
107.) New Mexico State University - $24,811,219
108.) Georgia State University - $24,763,930
109.) Utah State University $24,446,189
110.) University of Toledo - $23,654,142

111.) Florida Atlantic University - $22,854,201
112.) Ball State University - $22,644,535
113.) Northern Illinois University - $22,552,032
114.) Eastern Michigan University - $21,904,183
115.) UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY - $21,620,575
116.) Appalachian State University - $20,930,831
117.) Bowling Green State University - $20,643,645
118.) University of Southern Mississippi - $19,667,859
119.) Troy University - $17,452,843
120.) University of Louisiana at Lafayette - $17,257,822

121.) Louisiana Tech University - $16,876,487
122.) University of South Alabama - $16,328,668
123.) University of Idaho - $14,840,070
124.) Arkansas State University - $13,565,978
125.) Georgia Southern University - $10,696,878
126.) University of Louisiana-Monroe - $9,194,173
127.) Air Force - Not Available
128.) Navy - Not Available


American Athletic Conference

01.) University of Connecticut - $63,374,981
02.) Southern Methodist University - $52,029,002
03.) University of South Florida - $45,102,784
04.) University of Cincinnati - $45,065,244
05.) University of Memphis - $43,148,158
06.) University of Central Florida - $41,957,141
07.) Temple University - $41,558,322
08.) University of Houston - $35,514,862
09.) East Carolina University - $35,459,448
10.) University of Tulsa - $32,541,245
11.) Tulane University of Louisiana - $29,441,104


Atlantic Coast Conference

01.) University of Louisville - $96,193,329
02.) Florida State University - $89,145,159
03.) University of Virginia - $84,402,712
04.) University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - $78,141,093
05.) Duke University - $76,366,113
06.) Syracuse University - $76,329,618
07.) North Carolina State University at Raleigh - $73,446,347
08.) Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University - $69,845,483
09.) Clemson University - $68,163,948
10.) University of Miami - $67,253,273
11.) Georgia Institute of Technology - $63,630,964
12.) Boston College - $60,770,300
13.) University of Pittsburgh - $57,606,235
14.) Wake Forest University - $48,830,266


Big Ten Conference

01.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $146,366,405
02.) Ohio State University - $123,604,626
03.) University of Michigan-Ann Arbor - $122,742,252
04.) University of Iowa - $106,703,779
05.) Pennsylvania State University - $104,751,468
06.) University of Minnesota-Twin Cities - $98,203,198
07.) University of Nebraska-Lincoln - $86,916,001
08.) Michigan State University - $79,369,587
09.) Indiana University-Bloomington - $75,738,695
10.) Purdue University - $74,481,250
11.) Rutgers University-New Brunswick - $71,851,419
12.) Northwestern University - $66,413,894
13.) University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - $65,967,262
14.) University of Maryland-College Park - $58,107,950


Big XII Conference

01.) The University of Texas at Austin - $165,691,486
02.) University of Oklahoma Norman - $123,805,661
03.) University of Kansas - $93,114,168
04.) Baylor University - $78,412,938
05.) West Virginia University - $77,706,696
06.) Oklahoma State University - $76,638,487
07.) Texas Christian University - $71,932,668
08.) Kansas State University - $69,250,204
09.) Iowa State University - $62,357,760
10.) Texas Tech University - $62,087,832


Conference USA

01.) Old Dominion University - $36,929,483
02.) Rice University - $32,294,612
03.) Florida International University - $28,332,259
04.) University of Alabama at Birmingham - $27,430,624
05.) Western Kentucky University - $26,109,720
06.) University of North Texas - $25,910,370
07.) Marshall University - $25,724,120
08.) The University of Texas at El Paso - $25,723,452
09.) Middle Tennessee State University - $24,845,231
10.) The University of Texas at San Antonio - $24,828,401
11.) Florida Atlantic University - $22,854,201
12.) University of Southern Mississippi - $19,667,859
13.) Louisiana Tech University - $16,876,487


Mid-American Conference

01.) Miami University-Oxford - $28,955,007
02.) University at Buffalo - $28,661,287
03.) University of Massachusetts Amherst - $28,659,514
04.) Central Michigan University - $27,680,624
05.) Ohio University - $27,265,061
06.) University of Akron - $26,479,926
07.) Kent State University at Kent - $25,871,038
08.) Western Michigan University - $25,458,301
09.) University of Toledo - $23,654,142
10.) Ball State University - $22,644,535
11.) Northern Illinois University - $22,552,032
12.) Eastern Michigan University - $21,904,183
13.) Bowling Green State University - $20,643,645


Mountain West Conference

01.) San Diego State University - $42,380,968
02.) University of Hawaii at Manoa - $33,971,200
03.) Boise State University - $33,219,370
04.) Colorado State University-Fort Collins - $32,535,454
05.) University of Nevada-Las Vegas - $32,288,243
06.) University of New Mexico - $32,146,734
07.) California State University-Fresno - $32,016,817
08.) University of Wyoming - $29,731,941
09.) San Jose State University - $25,854,038
10.) University of Nevada-Reno - $25,404,564
11.) Utah State University $24,446,189
12.) Air Force - Not Available


Pacific-12 Conference

01.) University of Southern California - $97,802,254
02.) University of California-Berkeley - $91,815,125
03.) Stanford University - $90,490,234
04.) University of Washington-Seattle - $85,072,886
05.) University of California-Los Angeles - $83,926,720
06.) University of Oregon - $81,374,469
07.) University of Arizona - $66,327,515
08.) University of Colorado Boulder - $66,327,498
09.) Arizona State University - $63,770,785
10.) Oregon State University - $60,193,022
11.) University of Utah - $51,792,903
12.) Washington State University - $50,154,279


Southeastern Conference

01.) The University of Alabama - $143,393,059
02.) University of Florida - $129,505,644
03.) Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College - $117,457,398
04.) The University of Tennessee - $109,925,351
05.) Auburn University - $102,864,769
06.) University of Arkansas - $99,769,099
07.) University of Georgia - $98,120,889
08.) University of South Carolina-Columbia - $90,484,422
09.) University of Kentucky - $86,570,579
10.) Texas A & M University-College Station - $78,530,133
11.) University of Missouri-Columbia - $71,149,002
12.) University of Mississippi - $66,233,842
13.) Mississippi State University - $62,004,404
14.) Vanderbilt University - $61,122,469


Sun Belt Conference

01.) Texas State University-San Marcos - $30,469,793
02.) New Mexico State University - $24,811,219
03.) Georgia State University - $24,763,930
04.) Appalachian State University - $20,930,831
05.) Troy University - $17,452,843
06.) University of Louisiana at Lafayette - $17,257,822
07.) University of South Alabama - $16,328,668
08.) University of Idaho - $14,840,070
09.) Arkansas State University - $13,565,978
10.) Georgia Southern University - $10,696,878
11.) University of Louisiana-Monroe - $9,194,173


Independents

01.) University of Notre Dame - $108,509,683
02.) Brigham Young University-Provo - $54,644,578
03.) UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY - $21,620,575
04.) Navy - Not Available

Those numbers are actually old (from 2011-2012). They were accurate to that date, however.

Tulane made $29.5M during their C-USA down years. The recent bowl appearance, new stadium, and new conference revenues should push them into the $32-38M range going forward.

I'm curious to see what the 2015 numbers turn out to be.

The student government at KU campaigned to lower the per-student athletics fee from $25/semester to $6/semester. They got that done, but the athletic department just announced that they're changing the seating chart at Allen Fieldhouse to move some prime seating away from students and give it to high donors instead.

Looking at that last list, this is worth noting:
AAC took 7 of the 8 highest revenue CUSA schools (Rice was 7)
CUSA took the 5 highest revenue Sun Belt schools
Sun Belt took 4 of 6 who had higher revenues than any of the remaining 5 members
AAC is losing its 2 highest revenue members next year
TCU had the highest revenues of any school that was non-BCS prior to the latest round of realignment
Only BYU and SMU have higher revenue than Utah of the non-BCS schools.

(06-06-2014 02:01 AM)EnterSandman Wrote:  Info From Equity in Athletics

Total Revenues by Team

001.) The University of Texas at Austin - $165,691,486
002.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $146,366,405
003.) The University of Alabama - $143,393,059
004.) University of Florida - $129,505,644

Looks like USA Today finally got around to publishing the figures you posted back around Christmas!! LOL.

The only discrepancy I see right off are with UK and Michigan State. USA Today gives UK a $10 million dollar boost and gives Michigan State a $20 million boost. Texas' figures are to the exact penny as well as Louisville's and others, so I know it has to be from the same year. Did USA Today goof because it's obvious they got their numbers from the same source you so neatly laid out for us in your post?

Prior to this recent USA Today piece, people had been using the USA Today figures from a few years ago in recent discussions. The reason I knew, is because it was the year WVU had that $13 million deficit. People didn't notice and kept right on using the numbers like they were current. It's important to note that your figures and USA Today's recent report are from 7-1-2012 to 6-30-13, so in about a month a two, the 7-1-2013 to 6-30-14 figures will be out. So either wait for USA Today to get with the program a year later or keep checking SAndman's site he provided to have the latest figures! Equity in Athletics data analysis Cutting toolhttp://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

do these figures include Tier 3?? just kidding!

I suspect that chart uses some different accounting for donations. Oregon dropped from #9 to #29 ($34 million difference). A&M dropped from #21 to #31 ($15 million difference). Oregon gets lots of Nike donations and A&M had a huge capital campaign last year.

(06-06-2014 09:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at that last list, this is worth noting:
AAC took 7 of the 8 highest revenue CUSA schools (Rice was 7)
CUSA took the 5 highest revenue Sun Belt schools
Sun Belt took 4 of 6 who had higher revenues than any of the remaining 5 members
AAC is losing its 2 highest revenue members next year
TCU had the highest revenues of any school that was non-BCS prior to the latest round of realignment
Only BYU and SMU have higher revenue than Utah of the non-BCS schools.

Why is that worth noting?

(06-06-2014 10:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  I suspect that chart uses some different accounting for donations. Oregon dropped from #9 to #29 ($34 million difference). A&M dropped from #21 to #31 ($15 million difference). Oregon gets lots of Nike donations and A&M had a huge capital campaign last year.

TCU and Oklahoma State, among others, are at least as dependent on donations as Oregon or Texas A&M. As is Stanford.

Maybe donations for a specific project like building/renovating a stadium or arena or training facility are listed differently than "general" athletic donations.

(06-05-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 11:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  A school that appears not to even have a place in the FBS is UMass, with a revenue of under $6 million and expenses of $31 million. What are they thinking?

Yeah, we could argue here all day about what percentage of "subsidy" in the budget is dangerously high for an athletic department. We wouldn't all agree on the exact number. But there's no doubt that when revenue only comprises 19% of a $30 million budget, that's unsustainable.

I think that's the right way to look at data like this. It may be fun to quibble about relatively small differences among schools, and how that affects where they are "ranked" for trash talk purposes, but there are some numbers that just slap you in the face.

What would disturb me even more about UMass' situation is their miniscule revenue from ticket sales. Their attendance numbers are already marginal by NCAA minimum standards for D-I (in fact, they are below the threshold). But with only $1.4 million in ticket revenue, including a modestly successful D-I basketball program, it appears that what seats are filled are taken by folks who are either paying nothing to attend or very little. That is to say, they probably can't even generate additional fan interest by literally giving tickets away.

Looks like they have some hard choices to make, and soon.

UMass is fine. Don't worry about us. Those numbers don't tell the whole truth.

(06-05-2014 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 11:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  A school that appears not to even have a place in the FBS is UMass, with a revenue of under $6 million and expenses of $31 million. What are they thinking?

Yeah, we could argue here all day about what percentage of "subsidy" in the budget is dangerously high for an athletic department. We wouldn't all agree on the exact number. But there's no doubt that when revenue only comprises 19% of a $30 million budget, that's unsustainable.

I think that's the right way to look at data like this. It may be fun to quibble about relatively small differences among schools, and how that affects where they are "ranked" for trash talk purposes, but there are some numbers that just slap you in the face.

What would disturb me even more about UMass' situation is their miniscule revenue from ticket sales. Their attendance numbers are already marginal by NCAA minimum standards for D-I (in fact, they are below the threshold). But with only $1.4 million in ticket revenue, including a modestly successful D-I basketball program, it appears that what seats are filled are taken by folks who are either paying nothing to attend or very little. That is to say, they probably can't even generate additional fan interest by literally giving tickets away.

Looks like they have some hard choices to make, and soon.

Yeah, UMass has a solid hoops program but they are not filling a large arena and it's unlikely they can charge premium prices for tickets. They averaged 5,255 per home game in 2012-13, which is ok but just outside the top 100 in D-I home attendance, and also slightly below the A-10 average for home attendance. (source)

Can they really have only $1.4 million in ticket revenue for the entire athletic department? Just for men's basketball, if they sell 5000 tickets x $20/ticket x 14 home games = $1.4 million.

I won't and can't get into specifics, but those UMass numbers that are reported don't tell the whole story. We're fine. Trust me.

(06-05-2014 02:23 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 11:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  A school that appears not to even have a place in the FBS is UMass, with a revenue of under $6 million and expenses of $31 million. What are they thinking?

Yeah, we could argue here all day about what percentage of "subsidy" in the budget is dangerously high for an athletic department. We wouldn't all agree on the exact number. But there's no doubt that when revenue only comprises 19% of a $30 million budget, that's unsustainable.

I think that's the right way to look at data like this. It may be fun to quibble about relatively small differences among schools, and how that affects where they are "ranked" for trash talk purposes, but there are some numbers that just slap you in the face.

What would disturb me even more about UMass' situation is their miniscule revenue from ticket sales. Their attendance numbers are already marginal by NCAA minimum standards for D-I (in fact, they are below the threshold). But with only $1.4 million in ticket revenue, including a modestly successful D-I basketball program, it appears that what seats are filled are taken by folks who are either paying nothing to attend or very little. That is to say, they probably can't even generate additional fan interest by literally giving tickets away.

Looks like they have some hard choices to make, and soon.

Yeah, UMass has a solid hoops program but they are not filling a large arena and it's unlikely they can charge premium prices for tickets. They averaged 5,255 per home game in 2012-13, which is ok but just outside the top 100 in D-I home attendance, and also slightly below the A-10 average for home attendance. (source)

Can they really have only $1.4 million in ticket revenue for the entire athletic department? Just for men's basketball, if they sell 5000 tickets x $20/ticket x 14 home games = $1.4 million.

I'm guessing that a lot of those seats are free to students, and free or reduced price for faculty. A season ticket for football games is only $100 for all six games, and that includes free parking. And there are discounted season tickets available as well.

Basketball tickets that aren't free go for $12, but you can get premium club seating for as high as $20. So, yeah, it's possible even though it sounds improbable.

The student tickets are paid for with an entertainment fee that every student pays.

(06-06-2014 09:37 AM)dopeordogfood Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:01 AM)EnterSandman Wrote:  Info From Equity in Athletics

Total Revenues by Team

001.) The University of Texas at Austin - $165,691,486
002.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $146,366,405
003.) The University of Alabama - $143,393,059
004.) University of Florida - $129,505,644

Looks like USA Today finally got around to publishing the figures you posted back around Christmas!! LOL.

The only discrepancy I see right off are with UK and Michigan State. USA Today gives UK a $10 million dollar boost and gives Michigan State a $20 million boost. Texas' figures are to the exact penny as well as Louisville's and others, so I know it has to be from the same year. Did USA Today goof because it's obvious they got their numbers from the same source you so neatly laid out for us in your post?

Prior to this recent USA Today piece, people had been using the USA Today figures from a few years ago in recent discussions. The reason I knew, is because it was the year WVU had that $13 million deficit. People didn't notice and kept right on using the numbers like they were current. It's important to note that your figures and USA Today's recent report are from 7-1-2012 to 6-30-13, so in about a month a two, the 7-1-2013 to 6-30-14 figures will be out. So either wait for USA Today to get with the program a year later or keep checking SAndman's site he provided to have the latest figures! Equity in Athletics data analysis Cutting toolhttp://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Sandman was way ahead of the curb...but that was just wrong and funny with the "Tier 3" jab....

(06-06-2014 10:11 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 09:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at that last list, this is worth noting:
AAC took 7 of the 8 highest revenue CUSA schools (Rice was 7)
CUSA took the 5 highest revenue Sun Belt schools
Sun Belt took 4 of 6 who had higher revenues than any of the remaining 5 members
AAC is losing its 2 highest revenue members next year
TCU had the highest revenues of any school that was non-BCS prior to the latest round of realignment
Only BYU and SMU have higher revenue than Utah of the non-BCS schools.

Why is that worth noting?

Money talks, UConn walks.

But UConn is next in line in the east for the P5. And it helps explains why the AAC didn't pull any MAC schools. And why Arkansas St. and ULL didn't get invited to CUSA.

(06-06-2014 10:11 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 09:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Looking at that last list, this is worth noting:
AAC took 7 of the 8 highest revenue CUSA schools (Rice was 7)
CUSA took the 5 highest revenue Sun Belt schools
Sun Belt took 4 of 6 who had higher revenues than any of the remaining 5 members
AAC is losing its 2 highest revenue members next year
TCU had the highest revenues of any school that was non-BCS prior to the latest round of realignment
Only BYU and SMU have higher revenue than Utah of the non-BCS schools.

Why is that worth noting?

Maybe he's saying that those are the next two in line for P5 inclusion in the west?

(06-06-2014 03:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  ....... And it helps explains why the AAC didn't pull any MAC schools. ....

Do you think that taking schools in the low 30s over schools in the high 20s is really a game changer?

(06-06-2014 05:37 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 03:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  ....... And it helps explains why the AAC didn't pull any MAC schools. ....

Do you think that taking schools in the low 30s over schools in the high 20s is really a game changer?

33 vs. 25 is 33%.
And those are the choices they made. If you look at on the field performance, Southern Miss should have gotten an AAC invite and ULL and Arkansas St. should have gotten CUSA invites. If you were looking at "markets," then NIU would have been invited. But that's not what happened.