I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

(05-19-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

There is just one problem, the modern terms liberal and conservative don't apply.

while having political balance is nice. the reality is that every once in a while we need another 1862 where the conservatives can get their a.s.s absolutely handed to them politically. doing that every 75 years will do wonders for this country.

(05-19-2014 11:08 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

There is just one problem, the modern terms liberal and conservative don't apply.

the political parties may be different, but the regions & tendencies of conservatives & liberals are pretty similar

(05-19-2014 11:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:08 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

There is just one problem, the modern terms liberal and conservative don't apply.

the political parties may be different, but the regions & tendencies of conservatives & liberals are pretty similar

They aren't even remotely close. They can't be because we don't have the same issues or economic problems etc.

You simply can't apply modern political terms to things that far in the past. You won't find a single honest historian who will.

(05-19-2014 10:42 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

and idiots who believe this ignore the paygo which was allowed to expire by republicans and once it expired the republicans went on a spending rampage accomplishing exactly what the paygo was meant to prevent.

(05-19-2014 11:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:08 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

There is just one problem, the modern terms liberal and conservative don't apply.

the political parties may be different, but the regions & tendencies of conservatives & liberals are pretty similar

They aren't even remotely close. They can't be because we don't have the same issues or economic problems etc.

You simply can't apply modern political terms to things that far in the past. You won't find a single honest historian who will.

lets see:

today you have your conservative, more religious party, that wants to block gay rights & womens rights. mostly located in the south they push for smaller govt, more states rights, and actively look for ways to weaken the federal govt or lower its total $$$$. Oh and they are hell bent on lower taxes.

Does that sound anything like the conservatives of the 1860s??????

to anything BUT a conservative political hick ==> it wouldn't.

(05-19-2014 09:19 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  LULZ... Internet memes.

Cons only bash 'em when they don't agree with them, eh?

(05-19-2014 11:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:08 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

There is just one problem, the modern terms liberal and conservative don't apply.

the political parties may be different, but the regions & tendencies of conservatives & liberals are pretty similar

They aren't even remotely close. They can't be because we don't have the same issues or economic problems etc.

You simply can't apply modern political terms to things that far in the past. You won't find a single honest historian who will.

lets see:

today you have your conservative, more religious party, that wants to block gay rights & womens rights. mostly located in the south they push for smaller govt, more states rights, and actively look for ways to weaken the federal govt or lower its total $$$$. Oh and they are hell bent on lower taxes.

Does that sound anything like the conservatives of the 1860s??????

to anything BUT a conservative political hick ==> it wouldn't.

Gay rights were a major party issue in 1860

The issue of states rights have always been an issue in the US but neither political party in existence at any time, with the exception of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists, have ever had a strangle hold on states rights issues. Each has sought to use the issue to further their own needs.

Liberal and conservative just have no place in 1860s politics, no mater how much you wish they did.

Besides, it was the Republican Party, who viewed themselves as the moral party who did all the things you are so happy about. They were the party of "personal responsibility."

Parties and ideologies are products of their time; there is no getting around that. They don't match up in whole or in part because the circumstances underpinning their rationale are so very different.

(05-19-2014 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:08 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  There is just one problem, the modern terms liberal and conservative don't apply.

the political parties may be different, but the regions & tendencies of conservatives & liberals are pretty similar

They aren't even remotely close. They can't be because we don't have the same issues or economic problems etc.

You simply can't apply modern political terms to things that far in the past. You won't find a single honest historian who will.

lets see:

today you have your conservative, more religious party, that wants to block gay rights & womens rights. mostly located in the south they push for smaller govt, more states rights, and actively look for ways to weaken the federal govt or lower its total $$$$. Oh and they are hell bent on lower taxes.

Does that sound anything like the conservatives of the 1860s??????

to anything BUT a conservative political hick ==> it wouldn't.

Gay rights were a major party issue in 1860

The issue of states rights have always been an issue in the US but neither political party in existence at any time, with the exception of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists, have ever had a strangle hold on states rights issues. Each has sought to use the issue to further their own needs.

Liberal and conservative just have no place in 1860s politics, no mater how much you wish they did.

Besides, it was the Republican Party, who viewed themselves as the conservative and moral party who did all the things you are so happy about. They were the party of "personal responsibility."

dude you continue to annoy me with your massive stupidity and lack of reasoning. do you not see how the party blocking the civil rights issue of its time in 1860 is not the same as the party blocking the civil rights issue of our time in 2014????

no you can't because you have either this extreme stupidity or massive troll tendencies which come out when you have clearly lost a debate. It is like the "corporate" argument all over again. It is extremely pathetic and I am gonna put you on ignore the next time you do this.

(05-19-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I absolutely 100% agree with the OP. Whenever this debate gets brought up all you need to do is point to 1862 and the 37th congress to prove it. All the Southern politicians walked out allowing the northern congressmen to pass their agenda virtually unopposed. The end result was arguably the greatest single legislative year in the history of our nation.

Just to highlight how big a year this was if you ever go on wiki where they list "major legislation" by congress it goes like this:

32: 0
33: 1
34: 0
35: 1
36: 2
37: 17
38: 2

just to list the big ones from that era:

-established the income tax
-landgrant college act
-homestead act
-pacific railway acts
-legal tender act (establishment of paper money)
-Formation of the IRS
-national banking acts (creation of a national banking system)
-False claims act
-established department of agriculture
-outlawed polygamy
-capped church ownership (fixed a lot of problems in utah)

these are major laws that played a huge role in either building our country or are still playing crucial roles today.

If you ever want to trace where the US took off as a national power, it's the civil war. The war was the best thing to ever happen to this country because it stamped out so many types of political mentalities that were holding us back (king cotton, nullification, states rights) and ended decades of political gridlock that hindered our industrial, population, & western growth. All while ushering some of the greatest legislation that this country has ever seen.

There's a shocker.

(05-19-2014 10:48 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 10:43 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Here you go.

Pretty normal pattern for a down business cycle. Happens all the time. Note that the turnaround occurred at almost the precise time Obama took office, which is too soon for any of his policies to have had any impact at all.

What is abnormal about it is if you extend the chart to the right, you find that the pace of recovery has trailed badly every recession since the 1930s. Of course, the 1930s were the last time that Keynesian "stimulus" was tried in response to a recession. Hmmmm....

Good points. If you go back to the 1930's however, you would see that soon after Keynesian polices improved the Great Depression, the government did exactly what it did this time around. It started cutting back for fear of spending too much money.

Isn't history grand?

(05-19-2014 11:34 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the political parties may be different, but the regions & tendencies of conservatives & liberals are pretty similar

They aren't even remotely close. They can't be because we don't have the same issues or economic problems etc.

You simply can't apply modern political terms to things that far in the past. You won't find a single honest historian who will.

lets see:

today you have your conservative, more religious party, that wants to block gay rights & womens rights. mostly located in the south they push for smaller govt, more states rights, and actively look for ways to weaken the federal govt or lower its total $$$$. Oh and they are hell bent on lower taxes.

Does that sound anything like the conservatives of the 1860s??????

to anything BUT a conservative political hick ==> it wouldn't.

Gay rights were a major party issue in 1860

The issue of states rights have always been an issue in the US but neither political party in existence at any time, with the exception of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists, have ever had a strangle hold on states rights issues. Each has sought to use the issue to further their own needs.

Liberal and conservative just have no place in 1860s politics, no mater how much you wish they did.

Besides, it was the Republican Party, who viewed themselves as the conservative and moral party who did all the things you are so happy about. They were the party of "personal responsibility."

dude you continue to annoy me with your massive stupidity and lack of reasoning. do you not see how the party blocking the civil rights issue of its time in 1860 is not the same as the party blocking the civil rights issue of our time in 2014????

no you can't because you have either this extreme stupidity or massive troll tendencies which come out when you have clearly lost a debate. It is like the "corporate" argument all over again. It is extremely pathetic and I am gonna put you on ignore the next time you do this.

You started calling people stupid, guess you can't counter anything. What's pathetic is your education.

BTW, there was no "civil rights" issue in 1860. The term is not accurate.

(05-19-2014 11:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:34 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  They aren't even remotely close. They can't be because we don't have the same issues or economic problems etc.

You simply can't apply modern political terms to things that far in the past. You won't find a single honest historian who will.

lets see:

today you have your conservative, more religious party, that wants to block gay rights & womens rights. mostly located in the south they push for smaller govt, more states rights, and actively look for ways to weaken the federal govt or lower its total $$$$. Oh and they are hell bent on lower taxes.

Does that sound anything like the conservatives of the 1860s??????

to anything BUT a conservative political hick ==> it wouldn't.

Gay rights were a major party issue in 1860

The issue of states rights have always been an issue in the US but neither political party in existence at any time, with the exception of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists, have ever had a strangle hold on states rights issues. Each has sought to use the issue to further their own needs.

Liberal and conservative just have no place in 1860s politics, no mater how much you wish they did.

Besides, it was the Republican Party, who viewed themselves as the conservative and moral party who did all the things you are so happy about. They were the party of "personal responsibility."

dude you continue to annoy me with your massive stupidity and lack of reasoning. do you not see how the party blocking the civil rights issue of its time in 1860 is not the same as the party blocking the civil rights issue of our time in 2014????

no you can't because you have either this extreme stupidity or massive troll tendencies which come out when you have clearly lost a debate. It is like the "corporate" argument all over again. It is extremely pathetic and I am gonna put you on ignore the next time you do this.

You started calling people stupid, guess you can't counter anything. What's pathetic is your education.

BTW, there was no "civil rights" issue in 1860. The term is not accurate.

this is why you are a scummy poster. you play the technicality card anytime someone makes a totally legitimate point about and you can't make a counter argument.

"sorry but your perfectly rationed point does not hold any water because I cant tell the difference between big business interests/corporate interests and abolitionist/being in favor of civil rights"

^^^^
that is literally your talking point anytime you get boxed into a corner.

(05-19-2014 11:40 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:34 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  lets see:

today you have your conservative, more religious party, that wants to block gay rights & womens rights. mostly located in the south they push for smaller govt, more states rights, and actively look for ways to weaken the federal govt or lower its total $$$$. Oh and they are hell bent on lower taxes.

Does that sound anything like the conservatives of the 1860s??????

to anything BUT a conservative political hick ==> it wouldn't.

Gay rights were a major party issue in 1860

The issue of states rights have always been an issue in the US but neither political party in existence at any time, with the exception of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists, have ever had a strangle hold on states rights issues. Each has sought to use the issue to further their own needs.

Liberal and conservative just have no place in 1860s politics, no mater how much you wish they did.

Besides, it was the Republican Party, who viewed themselves as the conservative and moral party who did all the things you are so happy about. They were the party of "personal responsibility."

dude you continue to annoy me with your massive stupidity and lack of reasoning. do you not see how the party blocking the civil rights issue of its time in 1860 is not the same as the party blocking the civil rights issue of our time in 2014????

no you can't because you have either this extreme stupidity or massive troll tendencies which come out when you have clearly lost a debate. It is like the "corporate" argument all over again. It is extremely pathetic and I am gonna put you on ignore the next time you do this.

You started calling people stupid, guess you can't counter anything. What's pathetic is your education.

BTW, there was no "civil rights" issue in 1860. The term is not accurate.

this is why you are a scummy poster. you play the technicality card anytime someone makes a totally legitimate point about and you can't make a counter argument.

"sorry but your perfectly rationed point does not hold any water because I cant tell the difference between big business interests/corporate interests and abolitionist/being in favor of civil rights"

^^^^
that is literally your talking point anytime you get boxed into a corner.

There is a problem when you are the only one who feels your point is "perfectly rationed."

Calling issues in 1860 Civil rights issues is the heart of your problem, it draws a false comparison which you are using to hold up your point. You lack a foundation for your argument because you are ignorant.

John, conservatism is the only known ideology that works. Modern liberalism or the progressive movement is based on a failed ideology going back almost 800 years. Period.

(05-19-2014 11:42 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:40 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:34 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:26 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Gay rights were a major party issue in 1860

The issue of states rights have always been an issue in the US but neither political party in existence at any time, with the exception of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists, have ever had a strangle hold on states rights issues. Each has sought to use the issue to further their own needs.

Liberal and conservative just have no place in 1860s politics, no mater how much you wish they did.

Besides, it was the Republican Party, who viewed themselves as the conservative and moral party who did all the things you are so happy about. They were the party of "personal responsibility."

dude you continue to annoy me with your massive stupidity and lack of reasoning. do you not see how the party blocking the civil rights issue of its time in 1860 is not the same as the party blocking the civil rights issue of our time in 2014????

no you can't because you have either this extreme stupidity or massive troll tendencies which come out when you have clearly lost a debate. It is like the "corporate" argument all over again. It is extremely pathetic and I am gonna put you on ignore the next time you do this.

You started calling people stupid, guess you can't counter anything. What's pathetic is your education.

BTW, there was no "civil rights" issue in 1860. The term is not accurate.

this is why you are a scummy poster. you play the technicality card anytime someone makes a totally legitimate point about and you can't make a counter argument.

"sorry but your perfectly rationed point does not hold any water because I cant tell the difference between big business interests/corporate interests and abolitionist/being in favor of civil rights"

^^^^
that is literally your talking point anytime you get boxed into a corner.

There is a problem when you are the only one who feels your point is "perfectly rationed."

Calling issues in 1860 Civil rights issues is the heart of your problem, it draws a false comparison which you are using to hold up your point. You lack a foundation for your argument because you are ignorant.

translation: I am a pathetic southerner who can't admit that my side was on the wrong side of history.

when your objective is to defeat my terminology not my actual points ==> clearly you have already lost.

if you don't want to call it civil rights, fine. however you have to be a total dumb*** to not see the connection or progression of rights for minorities from slavery to the civil rights era.

(05-19-2014 11:44 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  John, conservatism is the only known ideology that works. Modern liberalism or the progressive movement is based on a failed ideology going back almost 800 years. Period.

(05-19-2014 11:46 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:42 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:40 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 11:34 AM)john01992 Wrote:  dude you continue to annoy me with your massive stupidity and lack of reasoning. do you not see how the party blocking the civil rights issue of its time in 1860 is not the same as the party blocking the civil rights issue of our time in 2014????

no you can't because you have either this extreme stupidity or massive troll tendencies which come out when you have clearly lost a debate. It is like the "corporate" argument all over again. It is extremely pathetic and I am gonna put you on ignore the next time you do this.

You started calling people stupid, guess you can't counter anything. What's pathetic is your education.

BTW, there was no "civil rights" issue in 1860. The term is not accurate.

this is why you are a scummy poster. you play the technicality card anytime someone makes a totally legitimate point about and you can't make a counter argument.

"sorry but your perfectly rationed point does not hold any water because I cant tell the difference between big business interests/corporate interests and abolitionist/being in favor of civil rights"

^^^^
that is literally your talking point anytime you get boxed into a corner.

There is a problem when you are the only one who feels your point is "perfectly rationed."

Calling issues in 1860 Civil rights issues is the heart of your problem, it draws a false comparison which you are using to hold up your point. You lack a foundation for your argument because you are ignorant.

translation: I am a pathetic southerner who can't admit that my side was on the wrong side of history.

when your objective is to defeat my terminology not my actual points ==> clearly you have already lost.

if you don't want to call it civil rights, fine. however you have to be a total dumb*** to not see the connection or progression of rights for minorities from slavery to the civil rights era.

Southerner is capitalized.

You don't have a point because you are drawing false comparisons because you are ignorant of the differences in terms. There is a reason things have different terms, they represent different ideas. In this context the terms are not interchangeable and because you don't know the difference you are drawing false comparisons.

Slavery is separate and distinct from civil rights in that no party or majority felt freed slaves should have equal rights to white people. The slaughter house and civil rights cases of 1883 prove this. That is different from the civil rights era in which people did.

The parties of the time, 1860s were therefore neither conservative nor liberal by today's definition because their reasoning was different based on a different set of circumstances.

You're wrong; I'm sorry you had to throw a hissy fit over it.

I actually don't think you are a scummy poster, an idiot, or anything other than immature and you mostly just don't know.