(05-05-2014 04:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 01:25 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Sure they physically work harder but anybody can do the job (ie, very high supply) at any time. On the flip side of that you'd never (or at least it would take a very long time) be able to train the girl running the cash register or the burger flipper to be a CFO of the corporation without higher education. People aren't paid based on how much they sweat.

But by the same token, many people who work behind a desk all day long would not have the physical capabilities to do physical labor.

I worked in a boxing department loading trucks with heavy boxes for 11 years. I knew right then that I didn't want to do that the rest of my life.

So, you think those folks make minimum wage? For the MOST part those aren't minimum wage jobs. You're talking about unskilled construction labor, working the boxes at UPS/USPS/FedEx, etc... all of which pay higher than minimum wage. Perhaps you should consider who ACTUALLY gets paid minimum wage. Since you clearly didn't open my link... anybody can do these jobs.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...imum-wage/

1. Food prep & service (1,555,000 persons)
2. Sales and related (546,000)
3. Personal care (268,000)
4. Transportation and material moving (240,000)
5. Bldg grounds cleaning & maintenance (231,000)
6. Office / admin support (227,000)

So, the qualifications for these jobs are pretty much, nil, besides a driver's license for #4. Some physical labor involved with 4 and 5 but nothing like you experienced loading boxes all day... and again, that's not a minimum wage job.

I didn't work for UPS. I worked for a local company and I did make minimum wage for a long, long time.

Back then, minimum wage was 3.25 an hour.

(05-05-2014 04:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 01:25 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Sure they physically work harder but anybody can do the job (ie, very high supply) at any time. On the flip side of that you'd never (or at least it would take a very long time) be able to train the girl running the cash register or the burger flipper to be a CFO of the corporation without higher education. People aren't paid based on how much they sweat.

But by the same token, many people who work behind a desk all day long would not have the physical capabilities to do physical labor.

I worked in a boxing department loading trucks with heavy boxes for 11 years. I knew right then that I didn't want to do that the rest of my life.

So, you think those folks make minimum wage? For the MOST part those aren't minimum wage jobs. You're talking about unskilled construction labor, working the boxes at UPS/USPS/FedEx, etc... all of which pay higher than minimum wage. Perhaps you should consider who ACTUALLY gets paid minimum wage. Since you clearly didn't open my link... anybody can do these jobs.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...imum-wage/

1. Food prep & service (1,555,000 persons)
2. Sales and related (546,000)
3. Personal care (268,000)
4. Transportation and material moving (240,000)
5. Bldg grounds cleaning & maintenance (231,000)
6. Office / admin support (227,000)

So, the qualifications for these jobs are pretty much, nil, besides a driver's license for #4. Some physical labor involved with 4 and 5 but nothing like you experienced loading boxes all day... and again, that's not a minimum wage job.

I didn't work for UPS. I worked for a local company and I did make minimum wage for a long, long time.

Back then, minimum wage was 3.25 an hour.

Didn't say you were working UPS, I just giving an example of "unskilled labor" that makes well above minimum wage nowadays. Not sure why you'd stay in a job like that for so long if that's true.

(05-05-2014 04:40 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 01:25 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Sure they physically work harder but anybody can do the job (ie, very high supply) at any time. On the flip side of that you'd never (or at least it would take a very long time) be able to train the girl running the cash register or the burger flipper to be a CFO of the corporation without higher education. People aren't paid based on how much they sweat.

But by the same token, many people who work behind a desk all day long would not have the physical capabilities to do physical labor.

I worked in a boxing department loading trucks with heavy boxes for 11 years. I knew right then that I didn't want to do that the rest of my life.

So, you think those folks make minimum wage? For the MOST part those aren't minimum wage jobs. You're talking about unskilled construction labor, working the boxes at UPS/USPS/FedEx, etc... all of which pay higher than minimum wage. Perhaps you should consider who ACTUALLY gets paid minimum wage. Since you clearly didn't open my link... anybody can do these jobs.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...imum-wage/

1. Food prep & service (1,555,000 persons)
2. Sales and related (546,000)
3. Personal care (268,000)
4. Transportation and material moving (240,000)
5. Bldg grounds cleaning & maintenance (231,000)
6. Office / admin support (227,000)

So, the qualifications for these jobs are pretty much, nil, besides a driver's license for #4. Some physical labor involved with 4 and 5 but nothing like you experienced loading boxes all day... and again, that's not a minimum wage job.

I didn't work for UPS. I worked for a local company and I did make minimum wage for a long, long time.

Back then, minimum wage was 3.25 an hour.

Didn't say you were working UPS, I just giving an example of "unskilled labor" that makes well above minimum wage nowadays. Not sure why you'd stay in a job like that for so long if that's true.

I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Ahhhh Fitbud, but you also admit that you were doing it to improve yourself. Most people do that when they first enter the job market (min. wage) and if they're going to be content with staying there then it would be their decision. How many, even here in El Paso, do you hear of that started out as minimum wage and are now doctors, lawyers, school administrators, etc? The minimum wage is a staring point and should not be the end all of ones career. I started out at $1 dollar an hour and the pay in the military wasn't all that great either but it gave me an incentive and the training to become someone better than a minimum wage employee.

Sorry, if you're anyone other than a kid doing some menial task, typically a first, maybe second job ever, and making minimum wage then you only have yourself to blame. Did I do it? Yep. And I did it because I could pile up all kinds of hours. So, in essence, once it got to 50, 60 + hours it isn't minimum wage any longer is it? Time and a half and I could make okay money. Would I have made more by going back to being a waiter or busboy, yes, easily, but I hated those jobs cause you don't learn anything more along the way. *See Ollies point above.

I was always fond of telling my staff that the most important person in the place wasn't the Chef, the head waiter/waitress or bartenders. It was the dishwashers. Without them the whole place grinds to a halt. If I found a good one i.e. actually show up, show up sober, work, not cigarette break every ten minutes, and finish on time, he or she made the minimum for exactly 1- maybe 2 pay periods. They got fed off the regular menu, free of charge. Any mistakes by the pastry chef, they got their pick of a key lime pie, toll house, jelly roll or whatever didn't make the cut that day. Take it home with you and enjoy it.

In other words, the so-called lowest man on the totem pole (is that racist, or sexist?) only made minimum if they chose too. It can be done, and is every day.

This is another shiny object the left is throwing out there to distract from their abysmal record on creating "real" jobs that will necessarily demand higher wages.

Hell my 14 YO daughter kicks the minimum wages asss. She's a freakin' babysitter.

Get to work losers.

Why should anyone be paid more than the value of the goods and/or services that s/he produces?

Why is it immoral for a CEO to be paid more than someone thinks s/he is worth, but not immoral for some minimally qualified person to demand to be paid more that s/he is capable of producing?

This is where the dolts in California got it wrong. I was talking to a person who had just returned from LA where she needed weed abatement around some of her properties. So she goes to Home Depot to pick up some day laborers (illegals) and figured that would be that. But hold on a minute. The laborers wanted $15 cash under the table and tax free. They also wanted lunch served to them along with two 15 minute breaks where my friend would have to provide them with something lite to eat and drink. And it was like this at every Lowe's/Home Depot she went to.

Eventually she went into Orange County and found some illegals that would do the same job for $60 each and they had their own lunch and drinks with them.

Who do you think she hired?

(05-05-2014 08:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  This is where the dolts in California got it wrong. I was talking to a person who had just returned from LA where she needed weed abatement around some of her properties. So she goes to Home Depot to pick up some day laborers (illegals) and figured that would be that. But hold on a minute. The laborers wanted $15 cash under the table and tax free. They also wanted lunch served to them along with two 15 minute breaks where my friend would have to provide them with something lite to eat and drink. And it was like this at every Lowe's/Home Depot she went to.

Eventually she went into Orange County and found some illegals that would do the same job for $60 each and they had their own lunch and drinks with them.

Who do you think she hired?

Interesting how the illegals thought they were in the position to demand anything. It's almost as if they through they should be treated as citizens. Imagine that.

(05-05-2014 07:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Why should anyone be paid more than the value of the goods and/or services that s/he produces?

Why is it immoral for a CEO to be paid more than someone thinks s/he is worth, but not immoral for some minimally qualified person to demand to be paid more that s/he is capable of producing?

You are asking questions way too hard for some folks...Owl.

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

(05-06-2014 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

But you have to understand that you and I are rare not because we other people are lazy but because college isn't for everyone or because they just don't know any better.

I went to college because my brother and sisters went to college. I have cousins however where college never crossed their mind. It's just foreign territory for a lot of people.

(05-06-2014 10:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

But you have to understand that you and I are rare not because we other people are lazy but because college isn't for everyone or because they just don't know any better.

I went to college because my brother and sisters went to college. I have cousins however where college never crossed their mind. It's just foreign territory for a lot of people.

You don't need college to do well in life, that is a total myth. IT's also a myth to assume majoring in philosophy will make you better off than an ITT Tech student, a community college grad, or a GED holder.

What is special is not that "you lived with your parents" while you attended school but that while you had your McJob and lived with your parents you had direction and acted on it.

(05-06-2014 10:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

But you have to understand that you and I are rare not because we other people are lazy but because college isn't for everyone or because they just don't know any better.

I went to college because my brother and sisters went to college. I have cousins however where college never crossed their mind. It's just foreign territory for a lot of people.

So what? It doesn't take a college degree to learn bricklaying. Some parts of the country you simply can't find a bricklayer for weeks or even months. My understanding is they can command 30+ bucks an hour for a good one. Become a good one.
Don't like being outdoors in the mud? Learn to cook. Start at the bottom, learn the entire place top to bottom, make yourself indispensable. There are, quite literally, a million other examples.

But here's the dirty little secret- most of these people either think these jobs are beneath them or simply don't want to work.

This is the part that is so freaking foreign to me I can't even get my head around it- an unemployed person finds a legit, paying job beneath them. Wut?

(05-06-2014 10:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 04:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I stayed at that job because they allowed me to go to school and make my own hours. I was able to finish college in 6 years and worked 40 hours a week.

Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

But you have to understand that you and I are rare not because we other people are lazy but because college isn't for everyone or because they just don't know any better.

I went to college because my brother and sisters went to college. I have cousins however where college never crossed their mind. It's just foreign territory for a lot of people.

Wll then, they should not expect $15/hour flipping burgers, etc unless they learn a craft such as electricion, plumbing, etc.

(05-06-2014 11:13 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Bravo. The sad thing today is that someone would be expected to be commended for doing what you did. Back in the day, what you did was just expected and it was just understood working the minimum wage job was precursor to bigger and better things, not a final destination job.

This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

But you have to understand that you and I are rare not because we other people are lazy but because college isn't for everyone or because they just don't know any better.

I went to college because my brother and sisters went to college. I have cousins however where college never crossed their mind. It's just foreign territory for a lot of people.

So what? It doesn't take a college degree to learn bricklaying. Some parts of the country you simply can't find a bricklayer for weeks or even months. My understanding is they can command 30+ bucks an hour for a good one. Become a good one.
Don't like being outdoors in the mud? Learn to cook. Start at the bottom, learn the entire place top to bottom, make yourself indispensable. There are, quite literally, a million other examples.

But here's the dirty little secret- most of these people either think these jobs are beneath them or simply don't want to work.

This is the part that is so freaking foreign to me I can't even get my head around it- an unemployed person finds a legit, paying job beneath them. Wut?

I work part time painting and doing small jobs for elderly people that can not find anyone to do them. I have all the work I want just through word of mouth. Believe it or not...I make more in cash doing this per week than I do my regular job sometimes. The work is out there if you have the skills and are willing to go find it.

(05-06-2014 11:46 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 11:13 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:49 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:28 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  This....

Yep, I worked minimum wage througout highschool and then only for a little more through college. As college graduation approached my boss said to me, "I guess you'll be leaving soon better find someone else". Like I said, it was just expected back then.

But you have to understand that you and I are rare not because we other people are lazy but because college isn't for everyone or because they just don't know any better.

I went to college because my brother and sisters went to college. I have cousins however where college never crossed their mind. It's just foreign territory for a lot of people.

So what? It doesn't take a college degree to learn bricklaying. Some parts of the country you simply can't find a bricklayer for weeks or even months. My understanding is they can command 30+ bucks an hour for a good one. Become a good one.
Don't like being outdoors in the mud? Learn to cook. Start at the bottom, learn the entire place top to bottom, make yourself indispensable. There are, quite literally, a million other examples.

But here's the dirty little secret- most of these people either think these jobs are beneath them or simply don't want to work.

This is the part that is so freaking foreign to me I can't even get my head around it- an unemployed person finds a legit, paying job beneath them. Wut?

I work part time painting and doing small jobs for elderly people that can not find anyone to do them. I have all the work I want just through word of mouth. Believe it or not...I make more in cash doing this per week than I do my regular job sometimes. The work is out there if you have the skills and are willing to go find it.

As do I! I basically redid the entire house my Mother bought when she moved south to be closer to family. She also, being the good church lady she is, told her fellow choir members ALL about it as it unfolded over a couple of years. Mind you this was a brand new Church for her, didn't know these people in the least.

BUT, that was good enough for them. Completely unsolicited and totally out of the blue (I wasn't looking at all and don't need to do it) my phone starts ringing. A LOT.
Painting, wallpaper, tile, basic carpentry stuff, fixing this, moving that whatever. I actually DID entertain the idea for a bit about finding a crew and making another little profit center for myself, but just don't have the time.

But, you make the point also. There is work out there, most everywhere. You just gotta wanna do it.

Do these people realize folks are laughing at them?

fast food workers threaten global protest. AGAIN.

Keep on keeping on protestors and this is your fate.

Some people just aren't mechanically inclined or book smart. What other option do they have except to flip burgers.

We either raise the minimum wage for burger flippers or they continue to receive government assistance. Either way, taxpayers end up footing the bill.

At least with an increase in minimum wage, they have the extra dough to buy things and help the economy.