(06-23-2014 07:29 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 06:48 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(06-22-2014 03:12 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Let me add to this discussion a definition (kind of like definitions in a dictionary 1. 2. 3...) of "Straw Man" from Wikipedia:

"Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical."

if you're looking for a straw man argument, read an article by Mitch Album. Our complaints about Murphy are legit. Your constant need to defend him and discredit those complaints doesn't make sense to me.

Wow. What complaints???? EMU79 wants more recruiting press releases and Hoopster wants the staff to leak on recruiting news.

Anything else? Lackluster offense?

Sure there were issues with a few players but that is past and no sense re-tilling things. The past is the past.

Why are folks criticizing a HC who has done the job he has done taking over a program which was mediocre and sinking quickly under the previous coach?

on a personal/message board level, it's frustrating that you are so dismissive of other people's comments.

i think Murphy has been positive for the team overall, but there are a lot of valid complaints about they way he has conducted himself on (yes, they're better than under Rams, but they still have a lot of shortcomings) and off the court (marketing, internal dustups with school administrators, James Still situation).

i agree with you about recruiting. i don't care if we get transfers from CA or HS kids from MI. i also don't care about a press release. but telling people who do care about those things that they're making a straw man argument is unnecessary and an incorrect use of the term straw man.

(06-23-2014 10:27 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 07:29 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 06:48 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(06-22-2014 03:12 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Let me add to this discussion a definition (kind of like definitions in a dictionary 1. 2. 3...) of "Straw Man" from Wikipedia:

"Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical."

if you're looking for a straw man argument, read an article by Mitch Album. Our complaints about Murphy are legit. Your constant need to defend him and discredit those complaints doesn't make sense to me.

Wow. What complaints???? EMU79 wants more recruiting press releases and Hoopster wants the staff to leak on recruiting news.

Anything else? Lackluster offense?

Sure there were issues with a few players but that is past and no sense re-tilling things. The past is the past.

Why are folks criticizing a HC who has done the job he has done taking over a program which was mediocre and sinking quickly under the previous coach?

on a personal/message board level, it's frustrating that you are so dismissive of other people's comments.

i think Murphy has been positive for the team overall, but there are a lot of valid complaints about they way he has conducted himself on (yes, they're better than under Rams, but they still have a lot of shortcomings) and off the court (marketing, internal dustups with school administrators, James Still situation).

i agree with you about recruiting. i don't care if we get transfers from CA or HS kids from MI. i also don't care about a press release. but telling people who do care about those things that they're making a straw man argument is unnecessary and an incorrect use of the term straw man.

Let me take another viewpoint:

For a team which had a very nice season we had incredible amounts of sharp disagreements, some incredibly rancorous threads (esp. after a few games), etc.

Sometimes I would like to just enjoy the season and skip all of the negativity, esp. it seems we go through it ad infinitum and re-hash and re-hash.

Sorry, but re-hashing and re-hashing the negative is neither informative or a positive.

I come here hoping for some NEW news or new views...

I enjoy this forum because of the diverse opinions that are often discussed here. In 1986 the year I graduated from Eastern our EMU basketball program was competitive. The majority of our basketball recruits were from Michigan. Appreciate what coach Murphy is recruiting, the long arms of Murphy and his staff appear to reach wherever he can find a quality player.

Although, there has not been much conversation discussing him here the little I have found indicates that Timmy Bond is the real.

Lets go back for just a second, my original comment had zero regarding transfers, no comment about Murphy's offense, none of that stuff. I related a conversation I had where I actually defended Murphy for winning 22 games last season. But unfortunately we have people who post here who rather than read the comment want to read in whatever they want in people's comments because they want to be Mr. Message Board President (aka control freak) and tell others what they can or cannot post and subject matter. God forbid there be an honest and open discuss about problems at EMU with programs or coaches. Whether we like it or not there is plenty positive and negative about EMU sports, not discussing the negative is like hiding the truth as some past EMU presidents have done. Apparently other posters have some concerns about Murphy.

I'm not surprised at the person's comments, recall when Murphy got hired he had TWO websites one promoting him and the other him being coach at EMU, guess which one was more professional? Then after one season he decides he would like to be a scout at Orlando in the NBA but doesn't have the money for the buyout. Throw in James Still which was a black eye for the AD and the program, add Glenn Bryant. Now I'm sure Murphy has rubbed some of those decision makers the wrong way. Then he wins 22 games and the program really doesn't get a lot of respect post season and well the program actually gets hammered by one of its own players for 300 odd people showing up-again not a good selling point for the school and the program-I'm not blaming that one on Murphy but just point out how all of things add up. Honestly our 22 win season hasn't translated into any positive buzz among Michigan high school players or even recruiting wise. We struggled to recruit a back up center for Murphy's sake. On the marketing of the program lets look at the publicity for CC's first football camp and Murphy's what fourth invisible basketball camp. I rest my case. Would it kill Murphy to tweet the camp information to the numerous SE Michigan basketball blogs or Steve Bell?

Is Murphy ever going to take us back to the NCAA or NIT or move up a level? Do we move forward in year four and build on a 22 win season or move backward? Those are good questions in my opinion.

(06-24-2014 08:13 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Lets go back for just a second, my original comment had zero regarding transfers, no comment about Murphy's offense, none of that stuff. I related a conversation I had where I actually defended Murphy for winning 22 games last season. But unfortunately we have people who post here who rather than read the comment want to read in whatever they want in people's comments because they want to be Mr. Message Board President (aka control freak) and tell others what they can or cannot post and subject matter. God forbid there be an honest and open discuss about problems at EMU with programs or coaches. Whether we like it or not there is plenty positive and negative about EMU sports, not discussing the negative is like hiding the truth as some past EMU presidents have done. Apparently other posters have some concerns about Murphy.

I'm not surprised at the person's comments, recall when Murphy got hired he had TWO websites one promoting him and the other him being coach at EMU, guess which one was more professional? Then after one season he decides he would like to be a scout at Orlando in the NBA but doesn't have the money for the buyout. Throw in James Still which was a black eye for the AD and the program, add Glenn Bryant. Now I'm sure Murphy has rubbed some of those decision makers the wrong way. Then he wins 22 games and the program really doesn't get a lot of respect post season and well the program actually gets hammered by one of its own players for 300 odd people showing up-again not a good selling point for the school and the program-I'm not blaming that one on Murphy but just point out how all of things add up. Honestly our 22 win season hasn't translated into any positive buzz among Michigan high school players or even recruiting wise. We struggled to recruit a back up center for Murphy's sake. On the marketing of the program lets look at the publicity for CC's first football camp and Murphy's what fourth invisible basketball camp. I rest my case. Would it kill Murphy to tweet the camp information to the numerous SE Michigan basketball blogs or Steve Bell?

Is Murphy ever going to take us back to the NCAA or NIT or move up a level? Do we move forward in year four and build on a 22 win season or move backward? Those are good questions in my opinion.

I understand your criticisms.
However, I would like to point out that the camp that you referred to as "invisible" had 40 or so high school teams in attendance and some very competitive basketball games. I only say that to say that just because you (read: we) don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The word was out among the high school hoops circuit and it was the best turnout that a camp the program has run has had in quite some time.

I agree that your concluding questions are good ones. Great one's even. I'll throw out there that I expect this year's team to be as good or better than last year's team. I believe that Talley, Lee, and Ward will make bigger strides from their 1st to 2nd years than Bryant, Riley, and Harrison did. Provided that the new bigs are serviceable (and I believe they're better than serviceable) our team should be just fine.

(06-24-2014 08:13 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Lets go back for just a second, my original comment had zero regarding transfers, no comment about Murphy's offense, none of that stuff. I related a conversation I had where I actually defended Murphy for winning 22 games last season. But unfortunately we have people who post here who rather than read the comment want to read in whatever they want in people's comments because they want to be Mr. Message Board President (aka control freak) and tell others what they can or cannot post and subject matter. God forbid there be an honest and open discuss about problems at EMU with programs or coaches. Whether we like it or not there is plenty positive and negative about EMU sports, not discussing the negative is like hiding the truth as some past EMU presidents have done. Apparently other posters have some concerns about Murphy.

I'm not surprised at the person's comments, recall when Murphy got hired he had TWO websites one promoting him and the other him being coach at EMU, guess which one was more professional? Then after one season he decides he would like to be a scout at Orlando in the NBA but doesn't have the money for the buyout. Throw in James Still which was a black eye for the AD and the program, add Glenn Bryant. Now I'm sure Murphy has rubbed some of those decision makers the wrong way. Then he wins 22 games and the program really doesn't get a lot of respect post season and well the program actually gets hammered by one of its own players for 300 odd people showing up-again not a good selling point for the school and the program-I'm not blaming that one on Murphy but just point out how all of things add up. Honestly our 22 win season hasn't translated into any positive buzz among Michigan high school players or even recruiting wise. We struggled to recruit a back up center for Murphy's sake. On the marketing of the program lets look at the publicity for CC's first football camp and Murphy's what fourth invisible basketball camp. I rest my case. Would it kill Murphy to tweet the camp information to the numerous SE Michigan basketball blogs or Steve Bell?

Is Murphy ever going to take us back to the NCAA or NIT or move up a level? Do we move forward in year four and build on a 22 win season or move backward? Those are good questions in my opinion.

Gee, I guess after John Kerry returns to the United States after trying to broker a peace in Iraq he can come here and try to broker a peace on this board.

P.S. when you post such inflammatory comments about other posters I hope you aren't standing in front of a mirror shaving, lest you cut your face...

(06-24-2014 10:42 AM)KPJ Wrote:  I understand your criticisms.
However, I would like to point out that the camp that you referred to as "invisible" had 40 or so high school teams in attendance and some very competitive basketball games. I only say that to say that just because you (read: we) don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The word was out among the high school hoops circuit and it was the best turnout that a camp the program has run has had in quite some time.

There are many pearls of wisdom in KPJ's post.

Lot of posters are not on campus, and that obviously includes me, just do not know what is happening on campus with things like recruiting, camps, etc.

As KPJ is found of saying "if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it doesn't mean it didn't fall."

I understood EMU had many prospects on campus for recruiting visits this spring even though I didn't have their names.

KPJ just posted that 40 teams were on campus for summer camp.

I just don't see the problems with recruiting or camps.

Why Steve Bell, e.g., hasn't Tweeted on the camps? I'd suggest someone ask HIM. Let Steve Bell speak for Steve Bell (I used to do e-mail with Steve, subscribe to his publication, "The Bank" over say 5 - 7 years but have gotten out of the recruiting stuff in recent years.) I doubt I have a good e-mail for him (his e-mail changed a few times).

I HIGHLY value emu79's posts. No one else has provided more information about this spring's recruiting prospects, updates, and signings EMU.

I am quite pleased with this class, emu79 is not so much. Let him complain. It is his right. And he is very, very valuable to this board and EMU.

I agree with Steve's point to take the good with the bad with Murphy. There is more to like than dislike. Why dwell on the negative.

I will take that further and say afford emu79 that same respect. He deserves it for all his valuable posts.

I'm about to return to vacation again.

I'll try to address a bunch of issues which have been raised in this thread:

1). We had 'trouble' recruiting locally (MI) in spring as it was picked clean, for the most part in Fall and spring 'developments'. Maten 'blew up' and went big time, Dieng in Grand Rapids (reported in the press) wanted to play on the western part of the state to be close to his American host family, Goins was a MSU fan for life and walked on, Clyburn was grades or (as he did) go prep, etc. Some other Detroit kids had grade issues, etc. Those kids off the top of my head. Twenty two wins doesn't help with locals if the local kids aren't there to be signed.

2). This is pure speculation: I don't know if Murphy thought we could offer two scholarships to redshirt candidates at the same position, Nobles and Wilson. My guess: IF we had not signed Nobles we would have signed Wilson. I just didn't see Murphy giving four scholarships to forwards (Okoloji, Nazione, Nobles and Wilson). I believe it has been noted here, but Nobles was nursing an injury for part (how much?) of the season and did have a lackluster senior year. Thinks that cemented him as a redshirt candidate. I think Murphy needed to go with experience from JUCO or graduate transfers.

3). Centers were a big point of contention reading the thread. In early May I did receive word from someone NOT on this board about signing Samuels and maybe another center (assume it was Hunter, but I didn't get a name). When Super mentioned the 'mystery seven footer' I assumed it was he. There were a couple JUCO PF/C discussed heavily here on the board. My question: Did WE not offer (or withhold the offer) them at the end as we had one center in hand and maybe a second and a number of forwards, e.g., Okoloji, Nazione, etc. Any statement that we got 'beat' for those JUCO players the one who signed with TN-Martin maybe incorrect. Sometimes the situation is very dynamic, and changing: one who agrees first gets the scholarship and the next one gets nothing. I assume Murphy is happy with his front court signees.

4). Someone, again not on this forum, says Price is a player, very good shooter.

5). I really don't know will happen with scholarship #13. As we know, 'recruiting' (e.g., transfers, etc.) can literally stretch into late August. (I know of a grad eligible transfer T&F a few years ago whose father talked to EMU say August 20 and the student was in school the first week for class. I told the transfer's father about EMU and he carried the ball calling Dr. Gragg. The athlete's family was shocked how EMU could get an athlete in school in less than 10 days). As has been suggested to me, recruiting really never stops. Players are signing on and transferring even now. Of course, Hughley was a summer add last year.

My personal belief: A smart coach keeps a scholarship in his back pocket. (See Izzo: He picked up Harris from WVU and Forbes from CSU recycling scholarships that were freed very late).

I would like to see Albert but I have NOT heard anything about his recruitment. With two frosh, a JUCO guard is a good thing, IMO. I don't know if a frosh, say Boyd, replaces Combs. Lot to ask of a frosh.

6). H.S. camps went very well from our poster who is on campus. This suggests that there is no negative vibes to the program. BUT, remember basketball team camps and football position camps are very different. FB camps are for individuals and those players come to the camps looking to collect offers. They go to camps, collect offers and tell the FB recruiting analysts who just pump the stuff out. The focus of basketball team camps doesn't have the 'meat market' feel to it. (the 'meat market' is the AAU stuff where players display their stuff to get offers from coaches in attendance.). Big, big difference how FB and hoops recruiting info is processed by the 'analysts'. (I think one of our posters mentioned it).

7). I'll venture a guess that EMU does sign one or more MI h.s. kids in November. I see the 'stars in alignment' for that. I had heard that coaches were negatively recruiting against Murphy after his flirt with Orlando, but I'd guess that is 'old' news, eventually that dog won't hunt...

8). I do follow some recruiting Twitter sites. I do like following transfers which is fun. I prefer it to following h.s. recruiting. Players announce they are transferring and look for a new school ASAP. Things usually happen in a short timeline.

That's all I can think of...

Except for possibly one more recruit (if not, I'd give it to probably Perry), we are now in the 'dog days of Summer' for collegiate athletics.

Really nothing much happens except for gray turf at the Factory during Summer.

Tomorrow is Futbol. :) World Cup has been great. I didn't realize championship soccer could be so exciting. Go U.S.A.

Then in six weeks it will be American football.

Good post Steve. I agree with quite a few of your comments. Especially the dog days of summer. Maybe time for a break.

2014 EMU BASKETBALL RECRUITING CLASS
(summary of this thread.)

Fr 6-1 Ethan Alvano
Fr 6-5 Timmy Bonds
Fr 6-8 Jordan Nobles
Jr 6-7 Brandon Nazione
Jr 6-11 Mike Samuels
Sr 6-8 Anali Okoloji
Sr 6-8 Jerome Hunter

EMU 2014-2015 Probable Roster
(put in form of possible rotation- just for fun)

PG 6-0 Talley / 6-1 Alvano / 6-0 Farhat
SG 6-3 Lee / 6-5 Bonds / 6-3 Martin
SF 6-7 Price / 6-7 Nazione / 6-4 Perry
PF 6-7 Ward / 6-8 Okoloji / 6-8 Nobles
C 6-11 Ajavi/ 6-11 Samuels/ 6-8 Hunter

steve bell: sbell@bankhoops.com

Has little if anything to do with the EMU Hoops program, the B Ball Staff doesn't even subscribe to his local Michigan recruiting guide.

Sad!

WHY?

(06-26-2014 10:26 AM)Dennis Hoopster Wrote:  steve bell: sbell@bankhoops.com

Has little if anything to do with the EMU Hoops program, the B Ball Staff doesn't even subscribe to his local Michigan recruiting guide.

Sad!

WHY?

I'm not really sure why local hoop programs do.

I could see MAC schools in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, N.Y., etc. doing so (because it is harder for them to follow MI H.S. hoops) but does a program (EMU) which had 40 high schools on campus for teams bring their kids to the Convo need to pay for what they can 'get for free'?

I'd rather have Rob Murphy (and staff) doing the evaluation himself by observing the kids at a team camp.

I'd think after the camp, the staff gets together and say "I like this kid. He does (whatever) well. Seems like a good kid."

And, of course, is the football model where college coaches have all of these summer position/skill camps and they teach, evaluate, etc. and get the kids on campus for a brief peek. Basically the kids PAY to audition for college coaches.

Coaches don't really recruit from 'recruiting services'. Not much, esp. in the era of e-mail and texting is done through contacts. Coaches like Murphy have extensive contacts built up might it be in Detroit along the mid-Atlantic (where Murphy recruited for Syracuse), etc. Murphy recruited C.J. Fair and Jerami Grant (from Balto and D.C., respectively) for Syracuse. Our SG recruit, Boyd, went to the same h.s. as C.J. (Balto. City Collegiate H.S.).

The only thing I can see is that coaches might want a 'third party' to go to check rumors which they can't get directly themselves. Maybe a rumor the kid got in trouble or something like that. Otherwise, just contact the h.s. (or AAU) coach.