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Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
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bamaEagle Offline
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Post: #21
Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
I'm all in for dumping Idaho as soon as possible and staying at 10 teams. While we are at 10 teams, EKU and MoSt can improve facilities and such. Take them in a few years down the road and all is well in the SBC.
04-16-2014 07:46 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
Coming to a SunBelt near you.... NMSU for all sports, UMass for football only. And it won't be a long wait.

Like Idaho, Umass will be a temporary deal. It's a convenient arrangement for them and the SB. They get time to build their football program up for the AAC and some other schools get time to prepare for the SunBelt.

I see a major realignment in the G5 conferences down the road. There is only so much TV money to go around. Once those funds are sucked out of the system by the P5 playoff, schools will be forced to realign into regional conferences in order to get the ridiculous travel expenses under control. That is why it is imperative to get a seat at the FBS table now. Once the door is closed and locked those on the outside will wander in the FCS wasteland for a long time.
04-16-2014 08:11 PM
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Libertygrad01 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 08:11 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Coming to a SunBelt near you.... NMSU for all sports, UMass for football only. And it won't be a long wait.

Like Idaho, Umass will be a temporary deal. It's a convenient arrangement for them and the SB. They get time to build their football program up for the AAC and some other schools get time to prepare for the SunBelt.

I see a major realignment in the G5 conferences down the road. There is only so much TV money to go around. Once those funds are sucked out of the system by the P5 playoff, schools will be forced to realign into regional conferences in order to get the ridiculous travel expenses under control. That is why it is imperative to get a seat at the FBS table now. Once the door is closed and locked those on the outside will wander in the FCS wasteland for a long time.

Is this something you've heard or just your opinion?
04-16-2014 08:28 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 08:11 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Coming to a SunBelt near you.... NMSU for all sports, UMass for football only. And it won't be a long wait.

Like Idaho, Umass will be a temporary deal. It's a convenient arrangement for them and the SB. They get time to build their football program up for the AAC and some other schools get time to prepare for the SunBelt.

I see a major realignment in the G5 conferences down the road. There is only so much TV money to go around. Once those funds are sucked out of the system by the P5 playoff, schools will be forced to realign into regional conferences in order to get the ridiculous travel expenses under control. That is why it is imperative to get a seat at the FBS table now. Once the door is closed and locked those on the outside will wander in the FCS wasteland for a long time.

If NMSU leaves the WAC, the WAC loses its autobids. NMSU looks at the WAC as a convenient vessel to relatively easily gain the autobid. Maybe Grand Canyon (which isn't eligible yet) or UVU will be challengers, but the WAC is a more reliable launching pad for a NCAA bid. The Sun Belt would be tougher sledding in all sports, without much gain in money (except for FB).
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2014 08:55 PM by NoDak.)
04-16-2014 08:54 PM
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chiefsfan Online
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 08:54 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 08:11 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Coming to a SunBelt near you.... NMSU for all sports, UMass for football only. And it won't be a long wait.

Like Idaho, Umass will be a temporary deal. It's a convenient arrangement for them and the SB. They get time to build their football program up for the AAC and some other schools get time to prepare for the SunBelt.

I see a major realignment in the G5 conferences down the road. There is only so much TV money to go around. Once those funds are sucked out of the system by the P5 playoff, schools will be forced to realign into regional conferences in order to get the ridiculous travel expenses under control. That is why it is imperative to get a seat at the FBS table now. Once the door is closed and locked those on the outside will wander in the FCS wasteland for a long time.

If NMSU leaves the WAC, the WAC loses its autobids. NMSU looks at the WAC as a convenient vessel to relatively easily gain the autobid. Maybe Grand Canyon (which isn't eligible yet) or UVU will be challengers, but the WAC is a more reliable launching pad for a NCAA bid.


NMSU would leave for SBC all sports in a heart beat. Their President has openly admitted that.
04-16-2014 08:55 PM
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NuMexAg Offline
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 08:55 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 08:54 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 08:11 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Coming to a SunBelt near you.... NMSU for all sports, UMass for football only. And it won't be a long wait.

Like Idaho, Umass will be a temporary deal. It's a convenient arrangement for them and the SB. They get time to build their football program up for the AAC and some other schools get time to prepare for the SunBelt.

I see a major realignment in the G5 conferences down the road. There is only so much TV money to go around. Once those funds are sucked out of the system by the P5 playoff, schools will be forced to realign into regional conferences in order to get the ridiculous travel expenses under control. That is why it is imperative to get a seat at the FBS table now. Once the door is closed and locked those on the outside will wander in the FCS wasteland for a long time.

If NMSU leaves the WAC, the WAC loses its autobids. NMSU looks at the WAC as a convenient vessel to relatively easily gain the autobid. Maybe Grand Canyon (which isn't eligible yet) or UVU will be challengers, but the WAC is a more reliable launching pad for a NCAA bid.


NMSU would leave for SBC all sports in a heart beat. Their President has openly admitted that.

That is correct. Based on comments by our president NMSU would quickly accept a Sun Belt bid.

Even though the WAC does offer an easier path to the NCAA tourney (for several sports) and the travel in the WAC would be a little easier (for all it's far flung locations - most WAC schools are located near major airports) the Sun Belt offers much greater stability. Plus the benefit of having all sports in one conference. Less administrative costs/burden and greater sense of conference identity.

No significant chatter on the NMSU side yet though.
04-16-2014 09:05 PM
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paintedblue Offline
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
Here's an article by SB Nation about why the writer feels that JMU made the right call by declining to join the SBC.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...lt-fcs-fbs
04-16-2014 10:19 PM
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chiefsfan Online
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Post: #28
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 10:19 PM)paintedblue Wrote:  Here's an article by SB Nation about why the writer feels that JMU made the right call by declining to join the SBC.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...lt-fcs-fbs

Very CUSA tinted. The reality is those same issues exist for any FCS Team moving up...regardless of whether its SBC, MAC, or CUSA.

He also failed to point out that the flaw in the plan is that there is no way in hades an FCS school can move straight into the AAC.
04-16-2014 10:23 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
As for the Sun Belt, even with the announcement of a new bowl game, it's seen better days.

Remind me to kick SB Nations butt.
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04-16-2014 10:37 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.
04-17-2014 12:12 AM
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BRtransplant Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 10:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:19 PM)paintedblue Wrote:  Here's an article by SB Nation about why the writer feels that JMU made the right call by declining to join the SBC.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...lt-fcs-fbs

Very CUSA tinted. The reality is those same issues exist for any FCS Team moving up...regardless of whether its SBC, MAC, or CUSA.

He also failed to point out that the flaw in the plan is that there is no way in hades an FCS school can move straight into the AAC.

JMU feels like they will be one of the next additions to CUSA if another round of realignment takes place. At this point, that is a very big IF. Until the Big 12 decides to add members, which they may never do, realignment is probably over for a while. I think JMU will regret turning down the Sun Belt offer for what may be the last seat at the table.
04-17-2014 05:35 AM
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bladhmadh Offline
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-16-2014 02:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  For 500K, the Sunbelt could have a championship game in 2014. Add UMass and work out a way to pay the 500K early exit fee to the MAC. They would probably be agreeable. MAC at 12. sB at 12. Split the fee and give UMass a 6 year agreement with a 3 year renew/cancel notice after 3 years. That gives UMass 4 extra years to get thier stuff together and allows the SB to dump them easily if a good prospect shows up on the radar. You may find it works best to keep them around and dump Idaho when a better prospect emerges.

The MAC does not want a football only UMASS because of numbers. There is a good chance the MAC would let them leave without a buyout if UMASS said they were going to stay the two years to avoid paying it.
04-17-2014 05:43 AM
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swampbear Offline
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 05:35 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-16-2014 10:19 PM)paintedblue Wrote:  Here's an article by SB Nation about why the writer feels that JMU made the right call by declining to join the SBC.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...lt-fcs-fbs

Very CUSA tinted. The reality is those same issues exist for any FCS Team moving up...regardless of whether its SBC, MAC, or CUSA.

He also failed to point out that the flaw in the plan is that there is no way in hades an FCS school can move straight into the AAC.

JMU feels like they will be one of the next additions to CUSA if another round of realignment takes place. At this point, that is a very big IF. Until the Big 12 decides to add members, which they may never do, realignment is probably over for a while. I think JMU will regret turning down the Sun Belt offer for what may be the last seat at the table.

You take what is in front of you now and Move on down the road later if you have the opportunity to do so. If no offer was made to join CUSA do you really think that LA Tech would not have taken an invite to the Sun Belt??? Self preservation first....The statement that the JMU President made is arrogant in my opinion....
04-17-2014 05:46 AM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 12:12 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.

That's a great explanation. Regardless of the end game, taking steps towards your goal is progress. You cant climb the whole mountain in one day. Plus They have to recognize the changed landscape and that pecking orders are being shook up.

I admit that I used to not want in the Sun Belt. I felt that we were a great fit (both us and App) for C-USA. I felt that CUSA with a Ga Southern, App - Marshall, ECU, Southern Miss (all teams except Southern Miss that we had some history with) would have been ideal. Back when they seemingly cared about football strength over market.
I saw our State as a huge hole in the middle of their Conference (Still is!)

But now, it is very different. I'd rather be in the Belt. I honestly think that we are going to own CUSA in football and the Belt will rise as the premier G5 conference.

The leadership at JMU is also missing the writing on the wall imop in regards to the possible changes in conference championship game restrictions. That was one of the biggest things that had potential to cause another big **** by the Big 12 expanding to 12. With that shut down (if it passes) - the door from FCS to FBS is going to get much tighter. They may have seen that as something that would keep them stuck in the Belt - Again, if that is true, they have missed the "rise of the belt". But the reality is that it is likely to keep them stuck in the CAA!
04-17-2014 08:20 AM
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baruna falls Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 08:20 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 12:12 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.

That's a great explanation. Regardless of the end game, taking steps towards your goal is progress. You cant climb the whole mountain in one day. Plus They have to recognize the changed landscape and that pecking orders are being shook up.

I admit that I used to not want in the Sun Belt. I felt that we were a great fit (both us and App) for C-USA. I felt that CUSA with a Ga Southern, App - Marshall, ECU, Southern Miss (all teams except Southern Miss that we had some history with) would have been ideal. Back when they seemingly cared about football strength over market.
I saw our State as a huge hole in the middle of their Conference (Still is!)

But now, it is very different. I'd rather be in the Belt. I honestly think that we are going to own CUSA in football and the Belt will rise as the premier G5 conference.

The leadership at JMU is also missing the writing on the wall imop in regards to the possible changes in conference championship game restrictions. That was one of the biggest things that had potential to cause another big **** by the Big 12 expanding to 12. With that shut down (if it passes) - the door from FCS to FBS is going to get much tighter. They may have seen that as something that would keep them stuck in the Belt - Again, if that is true, they have missed the "rise of the belt". But the reality is that it is likely to keep them stuck in the CAA!
I like Ga Southern and App. I think they would have been great additions to Conf USA. ALso, just curious as to why you think the Sun Belt will eventually be the premier G5 league. I am not knocking the Sun Belt, but just curious about your analysis.
04-17-2014 08:30 AM
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The4thOption Offline
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 08:30 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:20 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 12:12 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.

That's a great explanation. Regardless of the end game, taking steps towards your goal is progress. You cant climb the whole mountain in one day. Plus They have to recognize the changed landscape and that pecking orders are being shook up.

I admit that I used to not want in the Sun Belt. I felt that we were a great fit (both us and App) for C-USA. I felt that CUSA with a Ga Southern, App - Marshall, ECU, Southern Miss (all teams except Southern Miss that we had some history with) would have been ideal. Back when they seemingly cared about football strength over market.
I saw our State as a huge hole in the middle of their Conference (Still is!)

But now, it is very different. I'd rather be in the Belt. I honestly think that we are going to own CUSA in football and the Belt will rise as the premier G5 conference.

The leadership at JMU is also missing the writing on the wall imop in regards to the possible changes in conference championship game restrictions. That was one of the biggest things that had potential to cause another big **** by the Big 12 expanding to 12. With that shut down (if it passes) - the door from FCS to FBS is going to get much tighter. They may have seen that as something that would keep them stuck in the Belt - Again, if that is true, they have missed the "rise of the belt". But the reality is that it is likely to keep them stuck in the CAA!
I like Ga Southern and App. I think they would have been great additions to Conf USA. ALso, just curious as to why you think the Sun Belt will eventually be the premier G5 league. I am not knocking the Sun Belt, but just curious about your analysis.

Well, for starters - 1: is that they have Georgia Southern! :) 2: And App. State

The AAC is going to hold the title for a while - congrats on your new home.

But - speaking football only - and other than the AAC:
First: The MAC is a northern conference, more concerned with Basketball. Imop = the weakest of all G5 football conferences with no end in sight.

The MWC: A north/western conference - again maybe more Basketball concerned than football? They are at a location disadvantage in regards to recruiting the best football stockpile talent in the country.
Honestly, without Boise State - where is the fear? And without looking it up, I believe that those western states are in large part less populated and they may have already nearly maxed out their attendance numbers. The Eastern US and Southern states are usually more populated leaving lots of potential season ticket holders!

I believe that the Sun Belt is already superior to CUSA. They have a southern footprint as well, even further south with the F?U's. But our football institutions are better. Granted that has been in large part due to teams like ECU, UCF, etc.. taking invites to the AAC. That making the AAC harder to overcome but at the same time making CUSA easier.

Going forward, CUSA then made a decision to recruit Market over power and I think this will be their downfall in the football ranking of their conference. In the short term it might help for TV contracts (we made 1 similar decision with GAST). But butts in seats, ticket sales and fan base are going to weigh heavy on that to. Winning solves a lot but many of the big market programs are struggling with that and so fan support.

The SBC footprint very much mirrors that of the SEC. There is more than money in play as to why the SEC is so good. Our conference is better located for recruiting football talent and better suited due to our commitment to football power (imHop) than ANY other G5. Our stadiums are getting bigger. We play the SEC a bunch and are going to use that cash/exposure to rise. Our programs have already been even winning some of those battles and that makes recruits recognize our names when we come calling.

I believe the CFP will be expanded, giving many athletes (who might be riding the bench at an AQ) more of a reason to accept an offer from a G5. Surely this will help all G5's, but given our hotbed location on recruiting - I think that lends itself to helping the SBC more than any other G5.

I believe that MAYBE the AAC will regain AQ status - almost certainly before the rest of us in regards to being included in the playoffs.
I look forward to the Cure Bowl and having our teams face the AAC.
It may come to be that the AAC begins sending it's higher ranked team to that bowl in an attempt to squelch the Sun Belt because if they send their lower ranked teams, they are likely to draw a loss each year and that would look bad for the AAC. We are going to have to earn our way to the top, and win that bowl a few years to begin drawing the better AAC opponents. But the stage has been set.

Can we rise? I believe we can. Feel free to disagree.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2014 09:16 AM by The4thOption.)
04-17-2014 09:13 AM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
Not to put words into another poster, but IMO...

Why will the SBC be a "premier" conference? I believe that IF the SBC can hold onto it's current members and maybe pull in 1 or 2 solid programs then it can easily be a top G5 conference. The SBC has already shown it can be a top football conference with it's current members. The catch is if the new members (Idaho, NMSU, App, and GS) can hold their own. I feel it'll be a wash with them balancing out each other. I also see current members getting stronger. The SBC is in the heart of the best recruiting and fanbases. Most of the schools are on the up swing and still have lots of room to grow. Also with the added bowl games and a possible CCG it'll further raise the prestige of the conference. Hopefully there will be a way to get out of the ESPN contract and actually get some money. So if one is strictly speaking about football I think the SBC has a great shot at being #1.

IF we are talking about all sports then it's another story. Baseball and Softball are strong for a lot of SBC schools, even some of the newbies. Some schools have a other sports (Golf at GS is really good) they are highly regarded in. Basketball is the one sport that needs a lot of work. WKU fans use this as a major reason for leaving, but the CUSA isn't much better. I think if the SBC can get NMSU in all sports and MoSt (I know they aren't ready and blah blah, but maybe in 2-3 years) the SBC can become a 2-bid league and have a win at least one game a year (or more) it'll make for a good basketball conference that may get a Cinderella team. But besides basketball the SBC is a solid conference overall.
04-17-2014 09:27 AM
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MWC Tex Online
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Post: #38
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 09:13 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:30 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:20 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 12:12 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.

That's a great explanation. Regardless of the end game, taking steps towards your goal is progress. You cant climb the whole mountain in one day. Plus They have to recognize the changed landscape and that pecking orders are being shook up.

I admit that I used to not want in the Sun Belt. I felt that we were a great fit (both us and App) for C-USA. I felt that CUSA with a Ga Southern, App - Marshall, ECU, Southern Miss (all teams except Southern Miss that we had some history with) would have been ideal. Back when they seemingly cared about football strength over market.
I saw our State as a huge hole in the middle of their Conference (Still is!)

But now, it is very different. I'd rather be in the Belt. I honestly think that we are going to own CUSA in football and the Belt will rise as the premier G5 conference.

The leadership at JMU is also missing the writing on the wall imop in regards to the possible changes in conference championship game restrictions. That was one of the biggest things that had potential to cause another big **** by the Big 12 expanding to 12. With that shut down (if it passes) - the door from FCS to FBS is going to get much tighter. They may have seen that as something that would keep them stuck in the Belt - Again, if that is true, they have missed the "rise of the belt". But the reality is that it is likely to keep them stuck in the CAA!
I like Ga Southern and App. I think they would have been great additions to Conf USA. ALso, just curious as to why you think the Sun Belt will eventually be the premier G5 league. I am not knocking the Sun Belt, but just curious about your analysis.

Well, for starters - 1: is that they have Georgia Southern! :) 2: And App. State

The AAC is going to hold the title for a while - congrats on your new home.

But - speaking football only - and other than the AAC:
First: The MAC is a northern conference, more concerned with Basketball. Imop = the weakest of all G5 football conferences with no end in sight.

The MWC: A north/western conference - again maybe more Basketball concerned than football? They are at a location disadvantage in regards to recruiting the best football stockpile talent in the country.
Honestly, without Boise State - where is the fear? And without looking it up, I believe that those western states are in large part less populated and they may have already nearly maxed out their attendance numbers. The Eastern US and Southern states are usually more populated leaving lots of potential season ticket holders!

I believe that the Sun Belt is already superior to CUSA. They have a southern footprint as well, even further south with the F?U's. But our football institutions are better. Granted that has been in large part due to teams like ECU, UCF, etc.. taking invites to the AAC. That making the AAC harder to overcome but at the same time making CUSA easier.

Going forward, CUSA then made a decision to recruit Market over power and I think this will be their downfall in the football ranking of their conference. In the short term it might help for TV contracts (we made 1 similar decision with GAST). But butts in seats, ticket sales and fan base are going to weigh heavy on that to. Winning solves a lot but many of the big market programs are struggling with that and so fan support.

The SBC footprint very much mirrors that of the SEC. There is more than money in play as to why the SEC is so good. Our conference is better located for recruiting football talent and better suited due to our commitment to football power (imHop) than ANY other G5. Our stadiums are getting bigger. We play the SEC a bunch and are going to use that cash/exposure to rise. Our programs have already been even winning some of those battles and that makes recruits recognize our names when we come calling.

I believe the CFP will be expanded, giving many athletes (who might be riding the bench at an AQ) more of a reason to accept an offer from a G5. Surely this will help all G5's, but given our hotbed location on recruiting - I think that lends itself to helping the SBC more than any other G5.

I believe that MAYBE the AAC will regain AQ status - almost certainly before the rest of us in regards to being included in the playoffs.
I look forward to the Cure Bowl and having our teams face the AAC.
It may come to be that the AAC begins sending it's higher ranked team to that bowl in an attempt to squelch the Sun Belt because if they send their lower ranked teams, they are likely to draw a loss each year and that would look bad for the AAC. We are going to have to earn our way to the top, and win that bowl a few years to begin drawing the better AAC opponents. But the stage has been set.

Can we rise? I believe we can. Feel free to disagree.

The MWC is concerned about football first. Otherwise, we would have allowed non-football schools in the conference.
04-17-2014 09:32 AM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 09:32 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 09:13 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:30 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:20 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 12:12 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.

That's a great explanation. Regardless of the end game, taking steps towards your goal is progress. You cant climb the whole mountain in one day. Plus They have to recognize the changed landscape and that pecking orders are being shook up.

I admit that I used to not want in the Sun Belt. I felt that we were a great fit (both us and App) for C-USA. I felt that CUSA with a Ga Southern, App - Marshall, ECU, Southern Miss (all teams except Southern Miss that we had some history with) would have been ideal. Back when they seemingly cared about football strength over market.
I saw our State as a huge hole in the middle of their Conference (Still is!)

But now, it is very different. I'd rather be in the Belt. I honestly think that we are going to own CUSA in football and the Belt will rise as the premier G5 conference.

The leadership at JMU is also missing the writing on the wall imop in regards to the possible changes in conference championship game restrictions. That was one of the biggest things that had potential to cause another big **** by the Big 12 expanding to 12. With that shut down (if it passes) - the door from FCS to FBS is going to get much tighter. They may have seen that as something that would keep them stuck in the Belt - Again, if that is true, they have missed the "rise of the belt". But the reality is that it is likely to keep them stuck in the CAA!
I like Ga Southern and App. I think they would have been great additions to Conf USA. ALso, just curious as to why you think the Sun Belt will eventually be the premier G5 league. I am not knocking the Sun Belt, but just curious about your analysis.

Well, for starters - 1: is that they have Georgia Southern! :) 2: And App. State

The AAC is going to hold the title for a while - congrats on your new home.

But - speaking football only - and other than the AAC:
First: The MAC is a northern conference, more concerned with Basketball. Imop = the weakest of all G5 football conferences with no end in sight.

The MWC: A north/western conference - again maybe more Basketball concerned than football? They are at a location disadvantage in regards to recruiting the best football stockpile talent in the country.
Honestly, without Boise State - where is the fear? And without looking it up, I believe that those western states are in large part less populated and they may have already nearly maxed out their attendance numbers. The Eastern US and Southern states are usually more populated leaving lots of potential season ticket holders!

I believe that the Sun Belt is already superior to CUSA. They have a southern footprint as well, even further south with the F?U's. But our football institutions are better. Granted that has been in large part due to teams like ECU, UCF, etc.. taking invites to the AAC. That making the AAC harder to overcome but at the same time making CUSA easier.

Going forward, CUSA then made a decision to recruit Market over power and I think this will be their downfall in the football ranking of their conference. In the short term it might help for TV contracts (we made 1 similar decision with GAST). But butts in seats, ticket sales and fan base are going to weigh heavy on that to. Winning solves a lot but many of the big market programs are struggling with that and so fan support.

The SBC footprint very much mirrors that of the SEC. There is more than money in play as to why the SEC is so good. Our conference is better located for recruiting football talent and better suited due to our commitment to football power (imHop) than ANY other G5. Our stadiums are getting bigger. We play the SEC a bunch and are going to use that cash/exposure to rise. Our programs have already been even winning some of those battles and that makes recruits recognize our names when we come calling.

I believe the CFP will be expanded, giving many athletes (who might be riding the bench at an AQ) more of a reason to accept an offer from a G5. Surely this will help all G5's, but given our hotbed location on recruiting - I think that lends itself to helping the SBC more than any other G5.

I believe that MAYBE the AAC will regain AQ status - almost certainly before the rest of us in regards to being included in the playoffs.
I look forward to the Cure Bowl and having our teams face the AAC.
It may come to be that the AAC begins sending it's higher ranked team to that bowl in an attempt to squelch the Sun Belt because if they send their lower ranked teams, they are likely to draw a loss each year and that would look bad for the AAC. We are going to have to earn our way to the top, and win that bowl a few years to begin drawing the better AAC opponents. But the stage has been set.

Can we rise? I believe we can. Feel free to disagree.

The MWC is concerned about football first. Otherwise, we would have allowed non-football schools in the conference.

Well, that's why I put a question mark behind that. Still - they have already fallen behind the SBC in football (see SBC= best G5 money awarded). Of course, that is without the AAC listed as a G5.

I'll say that keeping out non-football schools imop might help you remain in tact. I think it is smart for staying out of a conference split at any point. And it keeps you from not being able to bring in other All sports members (when you really want their football) because you have too many teams playing oly sports only. This nightmare was lived by the Big East and we all saw what happened. I'm ok with 2 non-football programs but I don't want to make a habit of it.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2014 09:44 AM by The4thOption.)
04-17-2014 09:43 AM
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baruna falls Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Still sounds like Sun Belt is determined to go to 12 FB teams
(04-17-2014 09:13 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:30 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 08:20 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-17-2014 12:12 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  You know I hate driving past Newport but try as I may I've not found a practical way to get Jonesboro from Little Rock without going through Newport. Newport isn't my destination and not my target but I have to go there to get where I want to go.

That's what JMU's administration doesn't understand. Odds are stacked against them getting where they want to go without already being FBS. The question isn't whether they WANT to join the Sun Belt. The question is how realistic is it that they can arrive at their preferred destination without holding membership in FBS.

When FAU started football Howard made it clear their goal was Big East but he learned a lesson from his Louisville mistake. At FAU he understood he couldn't leap directly to the place he wanted to go to and had to take intermediary steps.

At Louisville when the Metro was talking of adding football (the fabled Super Metro) but the organizing meetings were ongoing even though there was rampant speculation that even if it happened, Florida State and maybe South Carolina would never actually join because of other opportunities. The deal fell apart because Howard didn't recognize the marketplace had changed. He thought the era of the independent was still strong and Louisville could be a national player and maybe use that success to get in one of the big name brand leagues. They walked and when they walked talks collapsed and once that happened, the Big East picked up the pieces, but not with a 16 or 14 team league but an 8 team league a year later. Seven years later the Big East became one of the six AQ conferences. Four years after the Big East added football, CUSA formed and Louisville soon learned with the formation of the BCS, they had made a critical error by killing the Super Metro, that league would have garnered AQ status. For the next several years Louisville scrambled to try to get in the Big East and finally made it then they ended up being the (so far) last team invited into the P5.

Louisville had failed to realize initially that they needed to adjust to the time and take the intermediate step to get where they wanted to be. They ended up OK but probably delayed their move to the big time by several years.

That's a great explanation. Regardless of the end game, taking steps towards your goal is progress. You cant climb the whole mountain in one day. Plus They have to recognize the changed landscape and that pecking orders are being shook up.

I admit that I used to not want in the Sun Belt. I felt that we were a great fit (both us and App) for C-USA. I felt that CUSA with a Ga Southern, App - Marshall, ECU, Southern Miss (all teams except Southern Miss that we had some history with) would have been ideal. Back when they seemingly cared about football strength over market.
I saw our State as a huge hole in the middle of their Conference (Still is!)

But now, it is very different. I'd rather be in the Belt. I honestly think that we are going to own CUSA in football and the Belt will rise as the premier G5 conference.

The leadership at JMU is also missing the writing on the wall imop in regards to the possible changes in conference championship game restrictions. That was one of the biggest things that had potential to cause another big **** by the Big 12 expanding to 12. With that shut down (if it passes) - the door from FCS to FBS is going to get much tighter. They may have seen that as something that would keep them stuck in the Belt - Again, if that is true, they have missed the "rise of the belt". But the reality is that it is likely to keep them stuck in the CAA!
I like Ga Southern and App. I think they would have been great additions to Conf USA. ALso, just curious as to why you think the Sun Belt will eventually be the premier G5 league. I am not knocking the Sun Belt, but just curious about your analysis.

Well, for starters - 1: is that they have Georgia Southern! :) 2: And App. State

The AAC is going to hold the title for a while - congrats on your new home.

But - speaking football only - and other than the AAC:
First: The MAC is a northern conference, more concerned with Basketball. Imop = the weakest of all G5 football conferences with no end in sight.

The MWC: A north/western conference - again maybe more Basketball concerned than football? They are at a location disadvantage in regards to recruiting the best football stockpile talent in the country.
Honestly, without Boise State - where is the fear? And without looking it up, I believe that those western states are in large part less populated and they may have already nearly maxed out their attendance numbers. The Eastern US and Southern states are usually more populated leaving lots of potential season ticket holders!

I believe that the Sun Belt is already superior to CUSA. They have a southern footprint as well, even further south with the F?U's. But our football institutions are better. Granted that has been in large part due to teams like ECU, UCF, etc.. taking invites to the AAC. That making the AAC harder to overcome but at the same time making CUSA easier.

Going forward, CUSA then made a decision to recruit Market over power and I think this will be their downfall in the football ranking of their conference. In the short term it might help for TV contracts (we made 1 similar decision with GAST). But butts in seats, ticket sales and fan base are going to weigh heavy on that to. Winning solves a lot but many of the big market programs are struggling with that and so fan support.

The SBC footprint very much mirrors that of the SEC. There is more than money in play as to why the SEC is so good. Our conference is better located for recruiting football talent and better suited due to our commitment to football power (imHop) than ANY other G5. Our stadiums are getting bigger. We play the SEC a bunch and are going to use that cash/exposure to rise. Our programs have already been even winning some of those battles and that makes recruits recognize our names when we come calling.

I believe the CFP will be expanded, giving many athletes (who might be riding the bench at an AQ) more of a reason to accept an offer from a G5. Surely this will help all G5's, but given our hotbed location on recruiting - I think that lends itself to helping the SBC more than any other G5.

I believe that MAYBE the AAC will regain AQ status - almost certainly before the rest of us in regards to being included in the playoffs.
I look forward to the Cure Bowl and having our teams face the AAC.
It may come to be that the AAC begins sending it's higher ranked team to that bowl in an attempt to squelch the Sun Belt because if they send their lower ranked teams, they are likely to draw a loss each year and that would look bad for the AAC. We are going to have to earn our way to the top, and win that bowl a few years to begin drawing the better AAC opponents. But the stage has been set.

Can we rise? I believe we can. Feel free to disagree.

I hope the AAC will regain AQ status, I think however, that this is more hope than reality. I agree that the Sun Belt has more football centered schools than the Mac and Conf USA. I think Conf USA made a mistake in not inviting App or Ga Southern, as well as Ark State and ULL to the conference. These schools, coupled with Southern Miss and Marshall would have made for a very good football conference. At present, the Sun Belt and Conf USA have diluted their footprint because Conf USA went after market instead of winning programs.

I think the next big, important moment for Conf USA is going to be its new tv contract. Will Fox, or CBS, pay for schools like NOrth Texas, WKU and FIU/FAU? I really do not know. This is not a knock on those schools, but they have not proven they can sustain large fan bases who are loyal to the football product. If Conf USA does not match match its current tv contract or even maintain the status quo, then I think it would be fair to say that the Sun Belt and COnf USA, in terms of exposure , and perhaps even money are on a level playing field.
04-17-2014 10:08 AM
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