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Quote:In reality the mutual fund probably earned an average of almost double that annual rate providing far greater returns, even with the higher management fees versus commission.

Quote:Reading the article reminded me of a book that was required reading in my statistics class at WMU back in the day. It was called, "How to Lie with Statistics".

All true.

And hopefully everyone understands that the concept of "average rate of return" used by the mutual fund industry is HIGHLY MIDLEADING.

If anyone doesn't understand why, let me know.

This thread is great. All over the map and all interesting and informative.

I love you guys.

Most of the confusion or intentional ignoring of the facts is this.

Since you dont know when you are going to die and most will die in their 70's-80's the benefit of LI is having at that time.

Reading posts here it seems the argument is over cash value of a whole life policy or investing the difference. That isnt the point.

Only permanent or whole life insurance purchased when young and healthy will be "in force" when actuarial tables say that most people will die. Unless you are uber wealthy.

Where all life insurance companies make their money is on term. Counter intuitive? No.

Most people drop term when they cant afford the rapidly escalating term premiums that are are actuarily based on age and health. So the their is no payout simply a constant ever growing flow of premiums into the company. In an overwhelming number of cases those very people are on fixed incomes and experience rising expenses. Be it related to health, property taxes, fees, food, energy, etc.

It is those companies that provide a solid whole life offering are the only ones paying out death benefits. The only exception is for those who dont fit the acutaral tables and that is inconsequential.

In the last 30+ years, where personal retail investing has taken off their has been an explosion of investment vechicles. All with the intention of making money off investors. The word is "fees".

I believe there have been 3 or maybe 4 significant downturns in the "market" during that time. Great in a way if you are looking to buy at the bottom. Not so great if you are on a fixed income or are counting on a stream of income generated by those now depreciated vehicles to maintain your life style (that gets more expensive each year).

As I read the "con" retorts the focus is on the cash value accumulated inside a permanent plan vs the market. Eye off ball.

I guess if you are looking at a Variable Life plan one can be persuaded that the cash value is attractive as instead of dividends driving the policy growth it is the market. Why would you marry a those two?

Having bought a whole life policy when young and healthy the dividends will be more than sufficent to not only pay the annual dividend that grows the death benefit but the balance to fund the growth of the death benefit.

So in the end you have a paid off, ever growing tax free benefit that will allow you to invest the rest into vehicles that have more growth potential but are taxable, are not liquid, possibly leveraged with fees taking a greater chunk each and every transaction or actionable date.

Or you can be without life insurance and have the same outside investments.

This thread took a funny turn. Started out talking about a physical stress test and ended discussion financial stress tests, so to speak.

In the end, we all continue to wish Kimbo well come Monday!

can we move on to structural stress tests next? where my civil engineers at?

(04-18-2014 12:02 PM)SilentStryk09 Wrote:  can we move on to structural stress tests next? where my civil engineers at?

Holla! Loved the test in the mechanics of materials lab. Watching a 3/4" steel bar get stretched out like taffy, was cool. Don't use much of that stuff in practice now, more transportation and development. Do you have a civil degree from WMU?

(04-18-2014 12:02 PM)SilentStryk09 Wrote:  can we move on to structural stress tests next? where my civil engineers at?

What? Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc4Yx_Uylfo

It took 12:30 to get my heart rate up to 157 which I guess is what they need to do the test. Felt good. Could have went a little longer if needed. Felt good to push myself a little bit I miss that. No concerns right away. I will find out more on Thursday. Thanks for all the nice thoughts. I have been tired. Might need to get another sleep test this summer. Thinking of asking my doctor about provigal or nuvigal (spring?) Both are used by people to stay alert when tired. Wouldn't be a daily thing but I have heard good things about it. Anyone else know something about them?

I have a friend with sleep apnea. He is retired but still works as an adjunct professor at Western.

He is a medical specialist and really just supervises more like an intern level student. So no classroom stuff involved.

He was nodding off during conferences with his students. Not good. The doc gave him some of that stuff and he loves it.

Like a miracle, according to him. He feels all perky and stuff.

(04-21-2014 03:01 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  It took 12:30 to get my heart rate up to 157 which I guess is what they need to do the test. Felt good. Could have went a little longer if needed. Felt good to push myself a little bit I miss that. No concerns right away. I will find out more on Thursday. Thanks for all the nice thoughts. I have been tired. Might need to get another sleep test this summer. Thinking of asking my doctor about provigal or nuvigal (spring?) Both are used by people to stay alert when tired. Wouldn't be a daily thing but I have heard good things about it. Anyone else know something about them?

The good news is they let you go home, and you pushed yourself. Hopefully you're a-ok.

Sounds encouraging, Kimbo. Hoping for more good news on Thursday.

My heart is 100% I am cleared to start exercising again. Trying to lose some lbs and get more active. Whatever happen two weeks ago was just a freak thing, no real explanation but I am good to go. Thanks for the kind words.

Great news! Thanks for keeping your Bronco forum family in the loop!

From one to another.

Take it easy and steady. We arent 25. Time's on your side so ramp up not blow up.

I knew test would be negative, Kimbo.

You don't HAVE stress, you're just a carrier.

j/k

(04-24-2014 06:46 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  My heart is 100% I am cleared to start exercising again. Trying to lose some lbs and get more active. Whatever happen two weeks ago was just a freak thing, no real explanation but I am good to go. Thanks for the kind words.

Good to hear. Now drink plenty of water and eat fruits and vegetables. You'll shed those extra pounds in no time.

(04-25-2014 01:37 PM)bostonbronco Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 06:46 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  My heart is 100% I am cleared to start exercising again. Trying to lose some lbs and get more active. Whatever happen two weeks ago was just a freak thing, no real explanation but I am good to go. Thanks for the kind words.

Good to hear. Now drink plenty of water and eat fruits and vegetables. You'll shed those extra pounds in no time.

Are twinkies, Ho Ho's and s'mores veggies or fruits?

First off, glad you checked out clear and all's well, Kimbo.

You're one of the good ones and we're all happy that you're healthy.

(04-16-2014 10:03 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  I gather there are some in their 20s that post here. You guys should buy life insurance TODAY, even if you're single and have no kids yet. Many people don't understand that it's a lot cheaper when you're younger. A 500k, 30 year term policy for someone 25 is less expensive than you might imagine. Pays off the house and sends Johnny and Sally to college if something horrible happens when you're 35. Get 25k burial policies on the kids while you're at it. A decent funeral runs about 12k these days.

No doubt. Only 28 but I intend to take out policies (term or whole - still TBD) on myself and the wife before kids come along. Talk with our insurance folks every year and, at this point, it's not costing me more by waiting since we're under 30 or 35.

In the meantime, we have universal policies that are dirt-cheap through my employer.

(04-16-2014 11:02 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  I was dumb and grew up with money which is not the best way to learn about being wise with money. I have spent many years getting my family back into good financial terms. Someone who is dumb enough to run full speed down a football field and dive into 3 guys running at you full speed should not be allowed to have a credit card for a few years. Unfortunately my parents built up my credit for me so that I lots of free money to spend... didn't figure out for a while that it is not free money. Needs to be taught better in schools.

As I've undoubtedly said on here before...

I highly recommend anything and everything that revolves around the Bogleheads' philosophy when it comes to personal finance and investing. Love their book - great for beginners and still useful if you know your way around.

You're spot-on about financial education. My wife's an FCS teacher and has a class where she covers some of the basics. I know it varies from state to state, but it blows my mind that good financial knowledge isn't a HS graduation requirement in this day and age. Mismanage your credit and you're in a deep hole before you know what hit you.

I'm fortunate to always have been interested in and am responsible with this stuff. So I read all sorts of stuff, track everything, budget, etc. But I also realize that's not particularly common...

(04-28-2014 03:33 PM)stdatwmu Wrote:  First off, glad you checked out clear and all's well, Kimbo.

You're one of the good ones and we're all happy that you're healthy.

(04-16-2014 10:03 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  I gather there are some in their 20s that post here. You guys should buy life insurance TODAY, even if you're single and have no kids yet. Many people don't understand that it's a lot cheaper when you're younger. A 500k, 30 year term policy for someone 25 is less expensive than you might imagine. Pays off the house and sends Johnny and Sally to college if something horrible happens when you're 35. Get 25k burial policies on the kids while you're at it. A decent funeral runs about 12k these days.

No doubt. Only 28 but I intend to take out policies (term or whole - still TBD) on myself and the wife before kids come along. Talk with our insurance folks every year and, at this point, it's not costing me more by waiting since we're under 30 or 35.

In the meantime, we have universal policies that are dirt-cheap through my employer.

(04-16-2014 11:02 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  I was dumb and grew up with money which is not the best way to learn about being wise with money. I have spent many years getting my family back into good financial terms. Someone who is dumb enough to run full speed down a football field and dive into 3 guys running at you full speed should not be allowed to have a credit card for a few years. Unfortunately my parents built up my credit for me so that I lots of free money to spend... didn't figure out for a while that it is not free money. Needs to be taught better in schools.

As I've undoubtedly said on here before...

I highly recommend anything and everything that revolves around the Bogleheads' philosophy when it comes to personal finance and investing. Love their book - great for beginners and still useful if you know your way around.

You're spot-on about financial education. My wife's an FCS teacher and has a class where she covers some of the basics. I know it varies from state to state, but it blows my mind that good financial knowledge isn't a HS graduation requirement in this day and age. Mismanage your credit and you're in a deep hole before you know what hit you.

I'm fortunate to always have been interested in and am responsible with this stuff. So I read all sorts of stuff, track everything, budget, etc. But I also realize that's not particularly common...

Careful of that Universal policy. Unless things have changed drastically UL is driven by the market. Market up? You are in Phat City. Market down? You're in Flat City. Personally, I would not recommend mixing equities into your life insurance. But I understand the appeal.

A dividend driven whole life policy from a strong Mutual company is always superior.

Do you have a rider to purchase add'l insurance without proof of "insurability"? In otherwords, when the kids come along and you feel you need more because you will need more what assurance do you have that you wont have to pass a physical and not be rated?

You are correct about the cost of insurance. But it isnt any more in a whole life policy or term for that matter. But it is the one factor that increases every year regardless, guaranteed. The morbity cost is a constant based on acturarial tables. So as your cost goes up (guaranteed) any return in or outside of the policy gets diminished. IMO it is always best to get it as early as feasible when costs are lower.

Because you have UL through work I'm confident that it is portable. That's good. You don't want that benie to evaporate because someone else made a decision that impacts you.

Best of luck.