I thought it was a good read.

I too learned from first hand experience that things are much different in the real world than they are when they are fed to you from the media.

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:55 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:13 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  I left the GOP because of McCain & Romney. That doesn't make the Democrats any better.

There are those here who'd call you a lefty for that.

I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:55 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:13 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  I left the GOP because of McCain & Romney. That doesn't make the Democrats any better.

There are those here who'd call you a lefty for that.

I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:55 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:13 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  I left the GOP because of McCain & Romney. That doesn't make the Democrats any better.

There are those here who'd call you a lefty for that.

I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Um, McCain, Romney were both moderate Republicans or Obama lites.

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:55 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:13 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  I left the GOP because of McCain & Romney. That doesn't make the Democrats any better.

There are those here who'd call you a lefty for that.

I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

I think that the liberals claiming to be conservative think they can dismantle the GOP if they continue to pressure it to slide left. I think talk about demographics and young people are merely tactics to be used on the clueless and truly stupid. Obamacare has proven that.

(04-02-2014 02:52 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 12:55 PM)Smaug Wrote:  There are those here who'd call you a lefty for that.

I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Um, McCain, Romney were both moderate Republicans or Obama lites.

McCain, without a doubt. I actually was a supporter of McCain when he ran against Bush.

Romney? He may have been a moderate but he certainly didn't run as one. He ran far to the right in order to win the nomination. Something that was directly caused by the conservative wing of the republican party.

(04-02-2014 02:56 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:52 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Um, McCain, Romney were both moderate Republicans or Obama lites.

McCain, without a doubt. I actually was a supporter of McCain when he ran against Bush.

Romney? He may have been a moderate but he certainly didn't run as one. He ran far to the right in order to win the nomination. Something that was directly caused by the conservative wing of the republican party.

and yet you decided not to vote against a far left Marxist.

(04-02-2014 02:56 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:52 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I think that is part of the problem.

I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Um, McCain, Romney were both moderate Republicans or Obama lites.

McCain, without a doubt. I actually was a supporter of McCain when he ran against Bush.

Romney? He may have been a moderate but he certainly didn't run as one. He ran far to the right in order to win the nomination. Something that was directly caused by the conservative wing of the republican party.

But Romney's record said otherwise. Just like our current President who ran originally as a uniter and centrist; however, his previous record said he was a borderline Socialist...well guess what we got.

(04-02-2014 02:59 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:56 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:52 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Um, McCain, Romney were both moderate Republicans or Obama lites.

McCain, without a doubt. I actually was a supporter of McCain when he ran against Bush.

Romney? He may have been a moderate but he certainly didn't run as one. He ran far to the right in order to win the nomination. Something that was directly caused by the conservative wing of the republican party.

But Romney's record said otherwise. Just like our current President who ran originally as a uniter and centrist; however, his previous record said he was a borderline Socialist...well guess what we got.

But that is the problem. Romney ( and every future republican if nothing changes) had to run so far to the right in the primary that not even their record will help them get back to the middle.

I still believe that a majority of America is moderate republican, however, they have trouble voting for someone like Romney who has to say stuff like 47% of the country is just waiting for a handout.

(04-02-2014 03:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I still believe that a majority of America is moderate republican, however, they have trouble voting for someone like Romney who has to say stuff like 47% of the country is just waiting for a handout.

1. That's not exactly what Romney said, although it's close, and it Is (of course) how the media portrayed it.

2. Polling data from the weeks after that video was leaked showed virtually no change at all in Romney's electoral strength. I don't think it was a factor at all in terms of the final outcome.

It's understandable to leave a party, but to give your wholesale support to the other side is pointless.

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Lefties claiming to be conservative?

Not so much that. Rather, legacy-Republicans who lean liberal on social issues, never felt more than a surface-attachment to the GOP, or to "conservatism" (however defined) in the first place, and realized if they wanted a career in media (this guy, plus McCain's daughter is another example) it would help to play-up how offensive "Today's Republican Party" is, compared to the "Nice, Moderate Republican Party I Used To Know", which could be counted on to nominate Nice, Moderate people like Tom Dewey and Cabot Lodge and Gerald Ford, lose the election, and be polite about it afterwards.

There have been articles like this since Reagan was running in the 1980s. Those articles were just as pious and tedious as Goulka's

(04-02-2014 02:44 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I thought it was a good read.

I too learned from first hand experience that things are much different in the real world than they are when they are fed to you from the media.

Ooooooooh boyzees... The irony runs deep in this one.

I'm mostly there to use the enemy's resources against them, in particular ballot access. But I simply cannot operate at any high level within the party structure. By the time you reach state or even large county level elected office within the GOP, it takes a Herculean amount of calm, reserve, and patience to deal with the other power brokers. Most large social structures lend themselves to being run by sociopaths. Political structures doubly so.

That said it is even worse in the Democrat Party. At least the GOP will begrudgingly allow intellectual diversity. The Democrat Party is outright hostile to diversity of thinking.

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Old Guard Republican party is exactly what you're claiming they're not.

Sorry Fit, but if you say there's no longer a Moderate Republican, then you were (IMO) never a moderate Republican, you were a Democrat-leaner, maybe a blue-dog type of Democrat, but you definitely don't fall in as a Moderate Republican.

Hell, if you can't call Boehner a MODERATE Republican at best (and hes the speaker of the house!) then you don't understand what a Moderate Republican is.

HELL, Chris Christie should be your PERFECT candidate Fit, if you claim to be a Moderate Republican. You wouldnt' look at Hillary, you wouldnt' look at anyone else with an "R" after their party affiliation. You wouldn't look ANYWHERE else if you are a Moderate Republican, because he is -everything- that moderates claim to want.

(04-02-2014 02:59 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:56 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:52 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:50 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 02:48 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I think the problem is lefties claiming to be conservative, hoping to dilute the movement.

Kinda like all those far left loons who label themselves "moderate"

"Yeah so what. I read Salon magazine and I'm pro choice. I also am for gay marriage and have a problem with Christianity being visible in any form; but don't you dare call me a liberal."

Lefties claiming to be conservative?

No I think the problem is that the new Republican party has no room for moderates.

I'd be a moderate republican if there was such a thing. There isn't anymore.

Um, McCain, Romney were both moderate Republicans or Obama lites.

McCain, without a doubt. I actually was a supporter of McCain when he ran against Bush.

Romney? He may have been a moderate but he certainly didn't run as one. He ran far to the right in order to win the nomination. Something that was directly caused by the conservative wing of the republican party.

But Romney's record said otherwise.

Say what? Romney had _ONE_ item on his record that had him leaning to the left.. Romneycare.

Look back at his positions. Pro-Life, Anti-Gun control, Pro-Religious freedom. Did he have some items that looked like they were centrist/Moderate?

Yep.. But to say Romney was a moderate is really misunderstanding the man and his positions that he had to support in _Massachusetts_.

(04-02-2014 04:39 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Most large social structures lend themselves to being run by sociopaths. Political structures doubly so.

Sad but true.

Quote:At least the GOP will begrudgingly allow intellectual diversity. The Democrat Party is outright hostile to diversity of thinking.

The Democrats span the ideological spectrum, from Sandra Fluke to Wendy Davis, from Stephen Colbert to Jon Stewart.

(04-03-2014 03:01 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 04:39 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Most large social structures lend themselves to being run by sociopaths. Political structures doubly so.

Sad but true.

Quote:At least the GOP will begrudgingly allow intellectual diversity. The Democrat Party is outright hostile to diversity of thinking.

The Democrats span the ideological spectrum, from Sandra Fluke to Wendy Davis, from Stephen Colbert to Jon Stewart.

I think they have a wide range of thought, they're just good at bringing it together when it's important.