(04-02-2014 09:56 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Well, that's just great. In the meantime we've created another generation of dummies. If there are "problems" they should really be worked out before foisting another half-baked "teaching method" onto a largely disengaged public that isn't paying attention anyway.

The public is paying attention. That's what's so disgusting. The citizens are just being ignored. So much for liberty.

(04-02-2014 09:09 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I hate to break this to some of ya'll.. As someone who had to take a ton of math in HS and college.. There are some teachers/profs that teach math one way and it's their way or the highway.. I dropped a trig class in college because I failed two tests.. Not because I done something wrong, quite the contrary, I got the answers right, but I did it the way I had been taught in HS and working as a surveyor, and the teacher didn't like it because it wasn't her way.. She admitted my way was correct too, but it's not the method she preferred. Dropped the class and re-took it when I got to a 4 year university. The prof asked me why didn't I take it elsewhere or why was I in it, I didn't need it. I told him, and he basically told me to do the work the way I feel was correct and if he saw an issue we'd discuss it. He didn't find much wrong, but when he did he showed me the err and strengthen it.

I had to take a geography class at a local community college in HS because i knew I wanted to go to CU boulder. all the CO schools have 1 year of geography, 1 year of spanish.

the NY schools have 3 years of spanish + 8th grade spanish, and an optional 4th year of spanish. They don't have geography.

It all worked out in the end because the extra geography class, made up for a college spanish class I didn't have to take.

the point is: setting standards in place and making sure students are learning the same thing on a national level has its benefits.

We don't need a "national standard".. I will agree there are things everyone needs to learn, but after a certain age we need to start gearing kids towards careers/trades. What's 4 years of Spanish and English Literature not Composition going to teach a man who only dreams of running the family farm?

(04-02-2014 09:11 AM)john01992 Wrote:  but yeah there is no evidence that CC has any benefits

and in case you haven't noticed our education rankings are sh*t compared to other countries.

there are concerns about CC....legitimate concerns, however we do need to fix our education system and right now CC is one of the few options we have to do that.

Which might be a cause for concern save for the fact that historically, our educations ranking when measured using standardized testing have always been mediocre to middling. Curiously, this type of analysis doesn't go back beyond 1980. The CIA World Fact book was first published in 1982. And while UNESCO is one of the founding missions of the UN, comparative educational data wasn't really complied and disseminated until about 1990.

One thing we can all agree on is that the US spends a cubic butt ton in education and gets terrible ROI. Thus trying to fix what is wrong is beyond the curriculum and resources allocated and more about whether or not large segments of the nations' youth actually see education as a valuable skill set. Common Core can't/won't do a thing to address that issue.

Here's the problem....

CC is trying to teach you how to solve things that you can't otherwise solve. They aren't trying to teach you math, but how to think about math.

The Question should not ask what 220-190 equals, but instead should ask you to use this 'method' to simplify the question.

Using the method would be to add 10 to both sides and turning 220-190 into 230-200. Or 6945 - 6450... add 50 and you get 6995-6500. Add another 500 and get 7495-7000 Surely it is easier to solve 7495-7000 in your head than 6945-6450. THAT is the goal of this sort of math... and NOT to reach the answer of 495

The lesson should stop THERE, and not ask for the answer to the question because children have been taught to reach the answers, and obviously MANY kids can do 220-190 in their heads or quickly on paper... and that is what they do and they are being marked wrong for getting the right answer... because getting the answer wasn't the goal. Learning the method was.

I am no math expert, but it makes some sense to me that learning different ways to solve things can be beneficial, even if you already know how to solve most things. Surely in your life (and in higher math) there are times when the traditional methods of solving things simply don't work.

It seems that common core math is being taught wrong. It is the method that matters and not the solution... so don't ask for the solution. If a kid can't subtract 200 from 230, then you have bigger problems.

(04-02-2014 10:14 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the point is: setting standards in place and making sure students are learning the same thing on a national level has its benefits.

Feel free to demonstrate them. Because you failed just then.

(04-02-2014 11:28 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Here's the problem....

CC is trying to teach you how to solve things that you can't otherwise solve. They aren't trying to teach you math, but how to think about math.

The Question should not ask what 220-190 equals, but instead should ask you to use this 'method' to simplify the question.

Using the method would be to add 10 to both sides and turning 220-190 into 230-200. Or 6945 - 6450... add 50 and you get 6995-6500. Add another 500 and get 7495-7000 Surely it is easier to solve 7495-7000 in your head than 6945-6450. THAT is the goal of this sort of math... and NOT to reach the answer of 495

The lesson should stop THERE, and not ask for the answer to the question because children have been taught to reach the answers, and obviously MANY kids can do 220-190 in their heads or quickly on paper... and that is what they do and they are being marked wrong for getting the right answer... because getting the answer wasn't the goal. Learning the method was.

I am no math expert, but it makes some sense to me that learning different ways to solve things can be beneficial, even if you already know how to solve most things. Surely in your life (and in higher math) there are times when the traditional methods of solving things simply don't work.

It seems that common core math is being taught wrong. It is the method that matters and not the solution... so don't ask for the solution. If a kid can't subtract 200 from 230, then you have bigger problems.

True, BUT... there are many, many methods, and you waste students' time by teaching abstruse and arduous approaches. Furthermore, you confuse and discourage students, so it is counterproductive to education.

(04-02-2014 04:15 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  True, BUT... there are many, many methods, and you waste students' time by teaching abstruse and arduous approaches. Furthermore, you confuse and discourage students, so it is counterproductive to education.

I didn't go any deeper, but clearly the BEST way to teach things like this is to demonstrate mastery. Whether that takes one attempt of 50 is up to the student's abilities. My favorite class was one where the lesson plan was set for the whole year and you were given worksheets. Once you achieved 90% or so on a test, you were done with that section and could move onto the next. Teachers only rarely gave group discussions other than to introduce something like this method of solving things... done in about ten minutes... and then a test of a student's grasp of the concept would be as I described... Ask them to use that sort of logic to simplify, but not merely to solve some questions.

There is value (from my experience) in understanding the concept of adding things to two sides of an equation in order to more easily solve it... Whether it is adding 20 to make one side easier, or a whole number, or to get rid of a variable... so I'm okay with teaching this particular concept early... NOT because it helps you solve 320-280, but because it helps you solve far more complex issues in the future. I was pretty good at doing math in my head until I hit calculus, and suddenly I wish I'd known more of these 'cheats'. I BELIEVE this is an attempt to introduce a fairly common way to address complex math issues, but these aren't complex issues. The people who put these things together aren't stupid... Their goals may get lost on bureaucrats, but the general rationalization behind them is probably valid.

but sort of in agreement with you, once you've demonstrated mastery of the issue, you should move on. This concept shouldn't take long, and the fact that teachers are marking correct answers 'wrong' shows that the questions aren't being asked well/ the goal isn't clearly defined.

The point of public education these days isn't to educate, but to indocrinate.

I guess what I'm having difficulty with is why the imposition of national achievement standards would necessarily require the adoption of such teaching approaches as this.

Shouldn't standards mean here is where you have to get, figure out the best way to do it, instead of micromanaging the process?

What am I missing?

i understand the concept being taught. This is a very good lesson for a remedial math class with students finding it difficult to grasp the concept of subtraction. This SHOULD NOT be a tested concept for students that already under subtraction. The problem with Common Core is that it tries to create a base of learning easy enough for all students to get. The problem is that this takes time away from students that already get the concept and do not require remedial methods to help them understand. The result is a class where the bottom 20% are doing better, but the upper 50% are behind where a traditional class would be.

I don't disagree. The 'test' of math is whether or not you can get the correct answer. There are a variety of ways to reach that answer. I understand a teacher introducing this concept and even perhaps having a lesson on how to do it. That's a one period event for 90+% of the kids. Going forward, kids MAY use that method to solve the question, or they may not.

Came across this, and couldn't help but LOL at the concept. The theory behind adding from 12 to 32 is to find those "friendly" numbers, but then all you're left with to add to get the answer is "non-friendly" numbers. So you did all that work, and didn't get anywhere.

(04-03-2014 01:06 PM)Kronke Wrote:  



Came across this, and couldn't help but LOL at the concept. The theory behind adding from 12 to 32 is to find those "friendly" numbers, but then all you're left with to add to get the answer is "non-friendly" numbers. So you did all that work, and didn't get anywhere.

That's crazy.