(04-01-2014 11:32 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  Because some of us believe in not surrendering to the thugs, crooks, thieves and criminals that feel free to invade our homes and neighborhoods. Some of us aren't cowards either.

I hear what you are sayin, and I have sympathy to your point of view. I actually find the bad outcome here is not the dead thug, but that the neighbor confronted the thieves. He opened himself up to harm and civil liability.

In this case the situation was secure, the neighbor was safe, the police where on the way, and the thugs were isolated. There was no need to confront the criminals.

(04-01-2014 11:32 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 10:47 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 10:06 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 10:03 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  Could another solution be possible when no one is in danger of imminent death? I would propose calling the police, being a good witness, telling all the other neighbors what's going on. Certainly keep an eye out, but I would not dare venture into another person's home when the only immediate danger is to property....especially when outnumbered 3-1. I could see a situation where this could have gone very badly for Mr. Ford.

Some people aren't cowards who let thugs take what was earned through hard work. Instead of looking at what the shooter could have done differently, why don't you figure out what the thugs could have done differently?

Just a hypothetical...would you go inside a burning home to retrieve valuables....or let the big bad fire steal them?

Why needlessly put your life at risk?

Because some of us believe in not surrendering to the thugs, crooks, thieves and criminals that feel free to invade our homes and neighborhoods. Some of us aren't cowards either.

As Stanley said, I do understand your point, but simply disagree with the concept that choosing not to enter a dangerous situation makes me a coward.

Just because I wouldn't confront 3 people in an unfamiliar environment (not my house), doesn't mean I'm surrendering to thugs, crooks, and thieves. Let them try to break into my house, or put my family, friends, or neighbors in immediate harm and see what happens.

(04-01-2014 09:10 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  Ford confronted the men and asked them to leave, but they refused. He then cocked his pistol and asked them a second time to leave. At that point, one of the men came toward Ford in a threatening manner while asking, “What are you going to do?”

BAM!!

lol

(04-01-2014 12:53 PM)ummechengr Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 11:32 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 10:47 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 10:06 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 10:03 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  Could another solution be possible when no one is in danger of imminent death? I would propose calling the police, being a good witness, telling all the other neighbors what's going on. Certainly keep an eye out, but I would not dare venture into another person's home when the only immediate danger is to property....especially when outnumbered 3-1. I could see a situation where this could have gone very badly for Mr. Ford.

Some people aren't cowards who let thugs take what was earned through hard work. Instead of looking at what the shooter could have done differently, why don't you figure out what the thugs could have done differently?

Just a hypothetical...would you go inside a burning home to retrieve valuables....or let the big bad fire steal them?

Why needlessly put your life at risk?

Because some of us believe in not surrendering to the thugs, crooks, thieves and criminals that feel free to invade our homes and neighborhoods. Some of us aren't cowards either.

As Stanley said, I do understand your point, but simply disagree with the concept that choosing not to enter a dangerous situation makes me a coward.

Just because I wouldn't confront 3 people in an unfamiliar environment (not my house), doesn't mean I'm surrendering to thugs, crooks, and thieves. Let them try to break into my house, or put my family, friends, or neighbors in immediate harm and see what happens.

I understand you. My life > their property. I've put the lives of others ahead of my own before and would again, but if there's no danger to a person I'd wait outside of the house with the gun, but I wouldn't go in.

I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

(04-01-2014 05:13 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

Why? It seems like they'd defend your life along with your family's. They're just saying that they won't risk death to make sure your xbox doesn't get stolen.

(04-01-2014 05:13 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

FFS.

(04-01-2014 05:13 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

I don't think I would have gone over there either...knowing only the perps were there. At that point I would let those paid to intercede handle this. I would though have my rifle pointed at them from a safe distance. Any move onto my property would have been met with force.

(04-01-2014 05:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 05:13 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

Why? It seems like they'd defend your life along with your family's. They're just saying that they won't risk death to make sure your xbox doesn't get stolen.

This.

(04-01-2014 06:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 05:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 05:13 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

Why? It seems like they'd defend your life along with your family's. They're just saying that they won't risk death to make sure your xbox doesn't get stolen.

This.

Had the neighbor come to me frantically saying her kid was in the house, you bet your ass I would have loaded up my 12 gauge with my home defense rounds and gone over there Rambo style to make sure the kid didn't get hurt. But since she was safe in the guys house, I don't see how that warranted him going over there to confront them.

(04-01-2014 10:08 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 09:45 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  but, if the neighbor was safely out of her home, and with Mr. Ford...there was no apparent need for him to go over there

Makes me feel a bit like a sheep, but this is the correct response to the situation.

Why feel like a sheep? That's the correct response. You stay where you are with your neighbor and THEN if those three decided to come to your house THEN it's alright to use force. In the meantime get all the info about the intruders, i.e. height, weight, whether they have weapons (which I assume they didn't) call the cops and wait. During all this time just keep tabs on the whereabouts of these intruders.

As for firemen and policemen putting their lives on the line for material things, no, it doesn't happen like that. Even in a life or death situation if a victim is near a gunman firemen let the police handle that part first. Because a dead fireman/emt doesn't do anyone any good.

(04-01-2014 05:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 05:13 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I am glad I am not neighbors with certain people in this thread.

Why? It seems like they'd defend your life along with your family's. They're just saying that they won't risk death to make sure your xbox doesn't get stolen.

That's not why he went over there and that is not what he meant by glad he is not neighbors with some people on this thread.

Upon re-reading the articles, it appears that Mr. Ford remained on his property (i.e. stationary) the entire time. His 'confrontation' (which I had assumed to mean Mr. Ford walking up to neighbor's house) was actually to simply yell at the 3 men to leave. At that point, one man came towards him and he defended himself.

I disagree much less with the account I described above. However, I still 'stand my ground' (see what I did there?) with regard to not putting your life in danger to save someone's xbox, when all lives in question are a safe distance away.

When I took my CC class, it was drilled into us about how important it is to be a good witness. I'd be a much better witness alive, and without an adrenaline dump from a 'confrontation' when no life is in immediate danger.