I feel that the Sun Belt adding UMass football only is just message board talk. The Sun Belt already one Idaho and does not want another.

As far as JMU and the Sun Belt football only is not on the table.

This is what the Sun Belt will do.

Add on all sports member in the east. (JMU, Liberty, or EKU)
New Mexico State added all sports.
Replace Idaho with MSU all sports when MSU is really to make the move.

it's not message board talk.

(03-27-2014 01:29 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  UMass football only is not an option for the Sun Belt. It will never happen.

Speak for yourself. Gets LU off the table. UMass is better than a moveup. We'd rather have JMU or Missouri State, but an existing FBS program with scholarships in place works too

(03-28-2014 08:24 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  UMass to the SB doesn't happen for 2 more years though.

If the SB added us before June 1st, guess what? by the same time UMass comes on board, we'll have completed the transition and will be FBS as well.

there are NO advantages for UMass over us. We have ALL the advantages.

this is simply a matter of JMU not being interested. period.

Exactly. The JMU's administration would rather stay FCS. We wish you guys the best of luck and will take Missouri State or UMass.

(03-28-2014 06:32 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 12:02 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  The Sun Belt has a pretty terrible reputation built on those awful years when the ASU and ULL's of the world were trying to survive at the FBS level. The fact is though...at this point in time, financially and competitively in football, there is absolutely no difference between The SBC, the MAC, and CUSA. Your own feasibility study showed that.

i agree with that. And is why we need to pursue a FB only deal in the
SB. If they are willing to offer that to UMass, they would offer it to us.

But for all-sports, you SB fans have to understand it's a much different scenario and call to move all our sports over.

Travel is immense. We have no history with any of the schools, save for a few games against App State in football. We pull almost no students from the Sun Belt geographic footprint. We have 3 sports that would be orphaned.

It's easy to say, "hey, join". But from an all sports perspective, I DO see the hesitation from JMU's part.

Now, again, for football only. it's a no f'n brainer to me. Take the deal. NOW !

If we don't...then that is where JMU has royally screwed up and basically f'd our program over.

Oh it makes sense...but it doesn't solve our problem...which is why the invite wont come.

I know we like to talk about UMass now that they are available, but I continue to hear the only way UMass is even possible is if the league decided to go 14 football/14 basketball. As of right now we have two major needs. 1. Find an Olympic Sports travel partner to pair with App. and 2. Increase the basketball profile.

The only way I could see a situation where the league goes against finding app a travel partner is if an all sports member is available that would significantly increase the basketball profile of the league. (Missouri State, for example)

Otherwise, why would the SBC offer JMU a football only bid when we can grab Liberty or Missouri State, with neither hesitating to bring all sports along for the ride?

The thing to remember is your own study indicated that Olympic Travel would go way up regardless of where you played. It was going to cost like twice as much to travel to play in the MAC than it does in the CAA. With the SBC about 50K more than the MAC. In the end, is the 50K extra you are spending to play in the SBC really worth keeping your football program in FCS for?

what about New Mexico St?

they are the 12th team for all sports.

then you only need 1 for football. Hello UMass.

(03-28-2014 01:00 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  what about New Mexico St?

they are the 12th team for all sports.

then you only need 1 for football. Hello UMass.

NMSU makes 10 for all sports.

NMSU
stAte
App. St.
Ga. So.
Ga. St.
ULL
ULM
USA
Texas St.
Troy

Idaho- FB only
UALR- No FB
UTA- No FB

Personally, I want to see NMSU get all sports in and take another all sports program. Another FB only doesn't interest me at all but I see where it works for balance unless Missouri State is coming in down the road.

New Mexico State football....One season with more than 6 wins since 1967. Averaging 3.3 wins per season in those 46 years. Might be time to drop down a division.

(03-28-2014 02:12 PM)olddawg Wrote:  New Mexico State football....One season with more than 6 wins since 1967. Averaging 3.3 wins per season in those 46 years. Might be time to drop down a division.

How many butts do they put in the seats? I've got no issues with a losing program who averages 25,000 fans in attendance. But a losing team with an average of 5,000 is a problem.

(03-28-2014 05:39 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 02:12 PM)olddawg Wrote:  New Mexico State football....One season with more than 6 wins since 1967. Averaging 3.3 wins per season in those 46 years. Might be time to drop down a division.

How many butts do they put in the seats? I've got no issues with a losing program who averages 25,000 fans in attendance. But a losing team with an average of 5,000 is a problem.

16,000 last season.

I know the Sun Belt added them and Idaho last season for survival purposes, but once more full time members are added it would be best for the Sun Belt to jettison those two programs. They stretch the footprint of the Sun Belt too far and don't really add anything quality wise.

We added NMSU and Idaho to get to 12.

A majority of members (but less than 75%) voted to add NMSU all-sports BUT at the time of that vote, we had 12 hoop members, 10 all-sport football, 2 football only.

Then WKU left.

Sun Belt needs a football member and a hoops member.

The preference is for a full member who is easy to reach from Boone, NC. The schools that seem to fit the bill would be JMU, Liberty and EKU and of them from a travel standpoint, EKU is the best selection (nearly identical distance from Boone as JMU but closer to the rest of the league. Problem is the absolute earliest EKU is ready to start transition is this time next year and another year after that is probably more likely.

The other issue facing the membership is the strong desire of AState to add Missouri State a school that AState and Louisiana have talked to off and on since the American South Conference was formed. They are a bus trip all sports for AState and Ark-LR and realistically if ULM and UTA wanted to bus baseball or volleyball there it is feasible.

NMSU was rejected as the 13th full member, with UMass now available, NMSU as #12 all-sports is feasible with UMass filling the football only spot NMSU would vacate. The downside is NMSU seriously messes up Sun Belt travel.

I don't think the Sun Belt has reached a 75% consensus yet about the path to take.

EKU is a terrible option. I visited there this weekend and they are a generation away from having what is needed to be in a FBS conference.
It is a second rate university in every aspect.

(03-29-2014 12:05 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The schools that seem to fit the bill would be JMU, Liberty and EKU and of them from a travel standpoint, EKU is the best selection (nearly identical distance from Boone as JMU but closer to the rest of the league. Problem is the absolute earliest EKU is ready to start transition is this time next year and another year after that is probably more likely.

If Eastern Kentucky is on anybody's radar for FBS in the next few years, it's a crime. They'd need longer than that to drum up fan interest to make it work anyone's while to have them join. We played an FCS playoff game at EKU in 2011 (first round). They drew 2,388 people for that home playoff game.

On a side note, the fact that we played that we got outbid by a team that draws ~5K per game and had to play our first round playoff game on the road instead of in front of 25,000 JMU fans is forever a black eye on our administration - and frankly is a big reason many folks are unwilling to give Bourne, Rose or anyone else the benefit of any doubt in this process - in terms of savvy, smarts, or commitment. Hopefully Alger can "be the change", but he hasn't swapped out any of the key players, so who knows.

Posted on the "Newest Conference Rumor" thread:

(03-29-2014 11:44 AM)TARDledo Wrote:  UMass to the Sun Belt only makes sense if they can make the move immediately, which would come at a cost and I don't think they have the desire to do.

I explain it here: http://csnbbs.com/thread-683839-post-106...id10606991

Now if the Sun Belt can't get a commitment from a FCS team (JMU or Missouri State are the real options) to start the transition now, that could change and adding UMass starts to make a little more sense.

It looks like JMU administration may have to make a tough decision pretty soon. All of the empty threats from the Sun Belt about having the "last spot" to FBS may finally have legs, at least for now. JMU can gamble that things shake up again down the line and a new reshuffling starts up again opening up some spots elsewhere, but it would be a gamble.

Keep in mind that there doesn't need to be any reshuffling for spots to open up. the MAC can independently decide to expand to 14 from 12 on its own at any time in the future, but the MAC's in a position of strength and may not consider expanding from the FCS ranks. I'm sure it was looking in that direction these past few months but that's because there would have been more urgency had UMass accepted the all-sports invitation. That is no longer the case. It's more likely than not that JMU improves its chances at eventually landing in the MAC if it is already a full-fledged FBS member.

Good luck, Dukes.

(03-29-2014 12:27 PM)TARDledo Wrote:  Posted on the "Newest Conference Rumor" thread:

(03-29-2014 11:44 AM)TARDledo Wrote:  UMass to the Sun Belt only makes sense if they can make the move immediately, which would come at a cost and I don't think they have the desire to do.

I explain it here: http://csnbbs.com/thread-683839-post-106...id10606991

Now if the Sun Belt can't get a commitment from a FCS team (JMU or Missouri State are the real options) to start the transition now, that could change and adding UMass starts to make a little more sense.

It looks like JMU administration may have to make a tough decision pretty soon. All of the empty threats from the Sun Belt about having the "last spot" to FBS may finally have legs, at least for now. JMU can gamble that things shake up again down the line and a new reshuffling starts up again opening up some spots elsewhere, but it would be a gamble.

Keep in mind that there doesn't need to be any reshuffling for spots to open up. the MAC can independently decide to expand to 14 from 12 on its own at any time in the future, but the MAC's in a position of strength and may not consider expanding from the FCS ranks. I'm sure it was looking in that direction these past few months but that's because there would have been more urgency had UMass accepted the all-sports invitation. That is no longer the case. It's more likely than not that JMU improves its chances at eventually landing in the MAC/CUSA/AAC/ACC/B1G if it is already a full-fledged FBS member.

Good luck, Dukes.

FIFY.

That's the truth. There are misfits and ambitious ladder climbers in every conference. Reshuffling is inevitable. Once JMU is FBS, our options expand tremendously. Instead of only three possible conferences to join straight from FCS, there could be four or five who might start returning JMU's phone calls at some point. Gotta get in the door.

(03-28-2014 01:05 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 01:00 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  what about New Mexico St?

they are the 12th team for all sports.

then you only need 1 for football. Hello UMass.

NMSU makes 10 for all sports.

NMSU
stAte
App. St.
Ga. So.
Ga. St.
ULL
ULM
USA
Texas St.
Troy

Idaho- FB only
UALR- No FB
UTA- No FB

Personally, I want to see NMSU get all sports in and take another all sports program. Another FB only doesn't interest me at all but I see where it works for balance unless Missouri State is coming in down the road.

Fact is it would give the Sun Belt 12 in all sports if NMSU is extended a full member status, they only play football in the SBC now, and if UMass were added for football only.

(03-28-2014 05:39 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 02:12 PM)olddawg Wrote:  New Mexico State football....One season with more than 6 wins since 1967. Averaging 3.3 wins per season in those 46 years. Might be time to drop down a division.

How many butts do they put in the seats? I've got no issues with a losing program who averages 25,000 fans in attendance. But a losing team with an average of 5,000 is a problem.

NMSU has fine averages to meet the 15,000 rule. No problem there. Adding NMSU basketball is the key thing. Would extend the Oly sports some but the basketball and maybe baseball additions would more than compensate for that.

(03-29-2014 12:16 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  EKU is a terrible option. I visited there this weekend and they are a generation away from having what is needed to be in a FBS conference.
It is a second rate university in every aspect.

EKU already has a football stadium that will seat over 20,000 and is second in the FCS as far as the FCS playoff appearances are concerned. Your game with them came the same day Kentucky, only 20 miles away, was playing an important SEC game. They do need to increase their current football attendance, has been fine in the past.

Additionally remember UMass either has to get into another conference for football, or probably drop football or go back to the FCS. It's way too hard and expensive to schedule FBS required five home games, one can be an FCS upper tier team with maximum scholarships. Only way to do that is to normally be in an FBS conference or pay out tons of money to have FBS teams to visit for home games, and we all know UMass doesn't have that kind of money in their football program. They may can negotiate their way out of the MAC right away or soon without having to pay the $500,000 or the $250,000 since MAC wants them all in or all out. Locking up another FBS conference is imperative for UMass FBS football survival.

(03-31-2014 01:18 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:16 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  EKU is a terrible option. I visited there this weekend and they are a generation away from having what is needed to be in a FBS conference.
It is a second rate university in every aspect.

EKU already has a football stadium that will seat over 20,000 and is second in the FCS as far as the FCS playoff appearances are concerned. Your game with them came the same day Kentucky, only 20 miles away, was playing an important SEC game. They do need to increase their current football attendance, has been fine in the past.

I'll double down on Hart's comment. EKU is a terrible option, and is years away from being ready for FBS FB. GoApps "spin" is farcical. "Second in the number of FCS playoff appearances"...give us a break!

EKU, whatever its past performances at the FCS level, has been (like the FB conference it plays in) surpassed by numerous other programs in every metric you can measure an institution as it reflects "readiness" for big boy FB.

I seriously doubt EKU, despite its interest in moving to FBS level FB, is in play as a possible choice, and it could be another decade before EKU is ready. On the other hand, however, I suppose Idaho would welcome EKU as a conference mate, because the Colonel's maybe the only FB team it could defeat.

(03-31-2014 07:06 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 01:18 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:16 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  EKU is a terrible option. I visited there this weekend and they are a generation away from having what is needed to be in a FBS conference.
It is a second rate university in every aspect.

EKU already has a football stadium that will seat over 20,000 and is second in the FCS as far as the FCS playoff appearances are concerned. Your game with them came the same day Kentucky, only 20 miles away, was playing an important SEC game. They do need to increase their current football attendance, has been fine in the past.

I'll double down on Hart's comment. EKU is a terrible option, and is years away from being ready for FBS FB. GoApps "spin" is farcical. "Second in the number of FCS playoff appearances"...give us a break!

EKU, whatever its past performances at the FCS level, has been (like the FB conference it plays in) surpassed by numerous other programs in every metric you can measure an institution as it reflects "readiness" for big boy FB.

I seriously doubt EKU, despite its interest in moving to FBS level FB, is in play as a possible choice, and it could be another decade before EKU is ready. On the other hand, however, I suppose Idaho would welcome EKU as a conference mate, because the Colonel's maybe the only FB team it could defeat.

Really? Compare with JMU, some current MAC, and other programs already in FBS

Here is real, no spin data about EKU

Enrollment approx 16,000
Endowment ca 45 million
Television DMA 61

MBB
RPI 2012/13 69
RPI 2013/14 101
2013/14 regular season attendance all over the place from a low of 1400 vs Towson (win) to 4000-5500 per for home conference games.
McBrayer Arena capacity 6500

Football
Roy Kidd Stadium capacity 22000
recent high (not the highest) 23,700 for wky in 2004
2013 attendance declined late in the season.

Date Time Opponent Site TV Result Attendance
August 29 7:00 PM Robert Morris* Roy Kidd Stadium • Richmond, KY OVCDN W 38–6 12,200
September 7 12:00 PM at #8 (FBS) Louisville* Papa John's Cardinal Stadium • Louisville, KY ESPN3 L 7–44 53,647
September 14 6:00 PM #21 Coastal Carolina* Roy Kidd Stadium • Richmond, KY OVCDN L 32–51 14,500
September 21 7:00 PM at Morehead State* Jayne Stadium • Morehead, KY OVCDN W 56–24 8,115
September 28 2:30 PM at #8 Eastern Illinois O'Brien Stadium • Charleston, IL ESPN3 L 7–42 11,469
October 5 6:00 PM Austin Peay Roy Kidd Stadium • Richmond, KY OVCDN W 38–3 7,400
October 19 3:00 PM Tennessee Techdagger Roy Kidd Stadium • Richmond, KY OVCDN W 24–10 6,800
October 26 2:00 PM at Southeast Missouri State Houck Stadium • Cape Girardeau, MO ESPN3 W 31–7 5,171
November 2 2:00 PM #23 Tennessee State Roy Kidd Stadium • Richmond, KY ESPN3 W 44–0 5,700
November 9 4:00 PM at Jacksonville State JSU Stadium • Jacksonville, AL OVCDN L 10–68 16,876
November 16 1:00 PM UT Martin Roy Kidd Stadium • Richmond, KY OVCDN L 7–16 5,100
November 23 1:00 PM at Murray State Roy Stewart Stadium • Murray, KY OVCDN L 27–34 OT 2,299


My "spin":
-The football attendance needs improving, but attendance has been historically good and seems to be a function of the opponent.
-Men's basketball is historically and currently very good.
-Facilities are adequate to good
-Television market is excellent.
EKU has expressed interest, and is geographically compatible with the SBC footprint.

(03-31-2014 07:06 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 01:18 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:16 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  EKU is a terrible option. I visited there this weekend and they are a generation away from having what is needed to be in a FBS conference.
It is a second rate university in every aspect.

EKU already has a football stadium that will seat over 20,000 and is second in the FCS as far as the FCS playoff appearances are concerned. Your game with them came the same day Kentucky, only 20 miles away, was playing an important SEC game. They do need to increase their current football attendance, has been fine in the past.

I'll double down on Hart's comment. EKU is a terrible option, and is years away from being ready for FBS FB. GoApps "spin" is farcical. "Second in the number of FCS playoff appearances"...give us a break!

EKU, whatever its past performances at the FCS level, has been (like the FB conference it plays in) surpassed by numerous other programs in every metric you can measure an institution as it reflects "readiness" for big boy FB.

I seriously doubt EKU, despite its interest in moving to FBS level FB, is in play as a possible choice, and it could be another decade before EKU is ready. On the other hand, however, I suppose Idaho would welcome EKU as a conference mate, because the Colonel's maybe the only FB team it could defeat.

EKU is probably about 6th down on the Sun Belt list for inclusion, but they are not nearly as bad as some MAC and other football and basketball teams.
As for football attendance all EKU would have to do is play one game over at Kentucky (20 miles from campus) or Louisville or wherever and play Kentucky or another BCS school to meet the NCAA attendance requirements every other year.
Noticed they had only received one vote on the ongoing Sun Belt thread out of the first one hundred votes for 2014 inclusion into the Sun Belt so there is not a lot of interest in EKU from Sun Belt fans evidently. Not really surprising, but still an option.

I am shocked at the number of non-JMU fans (ODU, AppSt, ArkSt, etc.) posting to this thread on a JMU BBS -- it seems like they want us more than we want them. Is it "misery loves company" or the realization that the grass really is not greener over the septic tank?