(03-15-2014 08:56 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:34 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:24 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  Looks like Southern Miss may be the last team out for the second season in a row. Lunardi has us as the last team out.

The Bracket Matrix, a compilation of over 100 brackets, has us as the last team out.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/

First team out. Last team out is probably 1-27 Southern Utah. I think USM could get in. At least into a Dayton "First Four" game.

La Tech, meanwhile, really needed to win today to get in. RPI is too high and they won't have any wins against RPI top 25 to offset the three sub-100 RPI losses (although UTEP and ULL were both close to being top 100 and I suppose could still climb that high depending on results elsewhere). They had a great season and will do a ton of damage in the NIT, but I don't see NCAA in the cards for the Bulldogs this season.

Negative. Last team out. Get a dictionary. When you are eliminating (that's what out means) teams from consideration, the last one removed is the team just outside the bracket. Warren Nolan is one of the few bracktologists who still understand the english language.

If you are including (that's what in means) teams instead of eliminating them, then Southern Miss would be the first team not in, not the first team out.

They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

(03-15-2014 09:10 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:56 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:34 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:24 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  Looks like Southern Miss may be the last team out for the second season in a row. Lunardi has us as the last team out.

The Bracket Matrix, a compilation of over 100 brackets, has us as the last team out.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/

First team out. Last team out is probably 1-27 Southern Utah. I think USM could get in. At least into a Dayton "First Four" game.

La Tech, meanwhile, really needed to win today to get in. RPI is too high and they won't have any wins against RPI top 25 to offset the three sub-100 RPI losses (although UTEP and ULL were both close to being top 100 and I suppose could still climb that high depending on results elsewhere). They had a great season and will do a ton of damage in the NIT, but I don't see NCAA in the cards for the Bulldogs this season.

Negative. Last team out. Get a dictionary. When you are eliminating (that's what out means) teams from consideration, the last one removed is the team just outside the bracket. Warren Nolan is one of the few bracktologists who still understand the english language.

If you are including (that's what in means) teams instead of eliminating them, then Southern Miss would be the first team not in, not the first team out.

They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

To put this in common English, USM will be royally screwed for a second straight year.

(03-15-2014 09:10 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:56 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:34 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:24 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  Looks like Southern Miss may be the last team out for the second season in a row. Lunardi has us as the last team out.

The Bracket Matrix, a compilation of over 100 brackets, has us as the last team out.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/

First team out. Last team out is probably 1-27 Southern Utah. I think USM could get in. At least into a Dayton "First Four" game.

La Tech, meanwhile, really needed to win today to get in. RPI is too high and they won't have any wins against RPI top 25 to offset the three sub-100 RPI losses (although UTEP and ULL were both close to being top 100 and I suppose could still climb that high depending on results elsewhere). They had a great season and will do a ton of damage in the NIT, but I don't see NCAA in the cards for the Bulldogs this season.

Negative. Last team out. Get a dictionary. When you are eliminating (that's what out means) teams from consideration, the last one removed is the team just outside the bracket. Warren Nolan is one of the few bracktologists who still understand the english language.

If you are including (that's what in means) teams instead of eliminating them, then Southern Miss would be the first team not in, not the first team out.

They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

Wrong. The team just outside the bracket would be the first team consider not in the tournament or the last team considered out of the tournament. Don't confuse the meanings of "in" and "out". "In" means you are adding teams to the bracket. "Out" means you are eliminating teams from the bracket.

To demonstrate, we start with an ordered list of all D1 teams, ordered by resume with auto bid teams at the top of the list.

If we are eliminating teams, we start at the bottom of the list and remove teams until there are 68 left. So the very last team removed from the list would be the "last team out". The first team removed would be the "first team out"

If we are including teams, we start at the top of the list and add teams to the bracket until all 68 slots are filled. So the top team remaining on the list is the "first team not in". The last team on the list would be the "last team not in".

BYU lost its best player to a torn ACL in the WCC title game. I think that knocks them out and puts Southern Miss in.

However, we'll probably have to play Dayton on their home court in the play-in game.

What bothers me about the potential exclusion of either USM or La Tech is that the 12 seed Dayton play in game is built for teams such as them. I would much rather see 25 and 27 win teams in that game than an 8th place team from a P5 conference, regardless of whatever the SOS numbers say. Scheduling is not a given, especially at the mid major level, and IMO, too much emphasis is being placed on opponents winning %, especially in La Techs case. They won 27 D1 games. Both had good road records. Let them in the show.

(03-16-2014 06:46 AM)Artifice Wrote:  What bothers me about the potential exclusion of either USM or La Tech is that the 12 seed Dayton play in game is built for teams such as them. I would much rather see 25 and 27 win teams in that game than an 8th place team from a P5 conference, regardless of whatever the SOS numbers say. Scheduling is not a given, especially at the mid major level, and IMO, too much emphasis is being placed on opponents winning %, especially in La Techs case. They won 27 D1 games. Both had good road records. Let them in the show.

I hear you.

La Tech had 26 D1 wins.

(03-16-2014 01:12 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  BYU lost its best player to a torn ACL in the WCC title game. I think that knocks them out and puts Southern Miss in.

It doesn't work like that although I know you are just wishing upon a star at this point. The Selection Committee is going to judge BYU total body of work which their star player was a part of. If BYU is worthy of a bid, they will get it because of their resume. If BYU don't get a bid, it will be because of their resume.

If USM doesn't get in you can thank Creighton for the "no help". Providence was considered to be one of the last 4 in until they won the Big East Championship. If Providence had lost that game, they could have very well moved out of the last 4 in to the last 4 out.

(03-16-2014 06:54 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 01:12 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  BYU lost its best player to a torn ACL in the WCC title game. I think that knocks them out and puts Southern Miss in.

It doesn't work like that although I know you are just wishing upon a star at this point. The Selection Committee is going to judge BYU total body of work which their star player was a part of. If BYU is worthy of a bid, they will get it because of their resume. If BYU don't get a bid, it will be because of their resume.

Not true. If their best player can't play, it will push their stock down. Since they are close to the bubble, it could push them out. Did you reference the article that I linked on the other thread?

(03-15-2014 09:14 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:10 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:56 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:34 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:24 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  Looks like Southern Miss may be the last team out for the second season in a row. Lunardi has us as the last team out.

The Bracket Matrix, a compilation of over 100 brackets, has us as the last team out.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/

First team out. Last team out is probably 1-27 Southern Utah. I think USM could get in. At least into a Dayton "First Four" game.

La Tech, meanwhile, really needed to win today to get in. RPI is too high and they won't have any wins against RPI top 25 to offset the three sub-100 RPI losses (although UTEP and ULL were both close to being top 100 and I suppose could still climb that high depending on results elsewhere). They had a great season and will do a ton of damage in the NIT, but I don't see NCAA in the cards for the Bulldogs this season.

Negative. Last team out. Get a dictionary. When you are eliminating (that's what out means) teams from consideration, the last one removed is the team just outside the bracket. Warren Nolan is one of the few bracktologists who still understand the english language.

If you are including (that's what in means) teams instead of eliminating them, then Southern Miss would be the first team not in, not the first team out.

They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

Wrong. The team just outside the bracket would be the first team consider not in the tournament or the last team considered out of the tournament. Don't confuse the meanings of "in" and "out". "In" means you are adding teams to the bracket. "Out" means you are eliminating teams from the bracket.

To demonstrate, we start with an ordered list of all D1 teams, ordered by resume with auto bid teams at the top of the list.

If we are eliminating teams, we start at the bottom of the list and remove teams until there are 68 left. So the very last team removed from the list would be the "last team out". The first team removed would be the "first team out"

If we are including teams, we start at the top of the list and add teams to the bracket until all 68 slots are filled. So the top team remaining on the list is the "first team not in". The last team on the list would be the "last team not in".

All we have to do is go to espn.com and look. It goes:

Last four byes
Last four in
First four out
Next four out

(03-16-2014 09:45 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:14 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:10 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:56 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 01:34 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  First team out. Last team out is probably 1-27 Southern Utah. I think USM could get in. At least into a Dayton "First Four" game.

La Tech, meanwhile, really needed to win today to get in. RPI is too high and they won't have any wins against RPI top 25 to offset the three sub-100 RPI losses (although UTEP and ULL were both close to being top 100 and I suppose could still climb that high depending on results elsewhere). They had a great season and will do a ton of damage in the NIT, but I don't see NCAA in the cards for the Bulldogs this season.

Negative. Last team out. Get a dictionary. When you are eliminating (that's what out means) teams from consideration, the last one removed is the team just outside the bracket. Warren Nolan is one of the few bracktologists who still understand the english language.

If you are including (that's what in means) teams instead of eliminating them, then Southern Miss would be the first team not in, not the first team out.

They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

Wrong. The team just outside the bracket would be the first team consider not in the tournament or the last team considered out of the tournament. Don't confuse the meanings of "in" and "out". "In" means you are adding teams to the bracket. "Out" means you are eliminating teams from the bracket.

To demonstrate, we start with an ordered list of all D1 teams, ordered by resume with auto bid teams at the top of the list.

If we are eliminating teams, we start at the bottom of the list and remove teams until there are 68 left. So the very last team removed from the list would be the "last team out". The first team removed would be the "first team out"

If we are including teams, we start at the top of the list and add teams to the bracket until all 68 slots are filled. So the top team remaining on the list is the "first team not in". The last team on the list would be the "last team not in".

All we have to do is go to espn.com and look. It goes:

Last four byes
Last four in
First four out
Next four out

Yeah. Because ESPN knows it all, right? That still doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

It should state:

Last four byes
Last four in
Last four out (or First four not in)
Previous four out (or Next four not in)


If you go to warrennolan.com, he lists it as

Last four in
Last four out

I'm just saying that is where people get it from. You act like some damn grammar nazi about it.

(03-16-2014 10:22 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I'm just saying that is where people get it from. You act like some damn grammar nazi about it.

Grammar is important when what you label something is inaccurate and can cause confusion. "First four out" does not mean the four teams that just missed the bracket as I clearly described in my previous post. "Out" implies that you are coming from the bottom of the list. "In" implies that you are coming from the top of the list.

All the RPI and SOS talk is just a way for the committee to justify putting in big conference programs with bad records like Iowa and Baylor in over teams like Southern Miss and Tech. It's stupid that a post season conference tournament determines who goes to play for the national championship rather than a conference championship.

(03-16-2014 10:48 AM)RonBurgundy Wrote:  All the RPI and SOS talk is just a way for the committee to justify putting in big conference programs with bad records like Iowa and Baylor in over teams like Southern Miss and Tech. It's stupid that a post season conference tournament determines who goes to play for the national championship rather than a conference championship.

I think the regular season champ should get the auto bid. If there is a tie that head-to-head does not break then the team that advances the farthest in the tournament should get the auto bid. The winner of the tournament should get an auto bid to the NIT.

(03-16-2014 10:37 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:22 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I'm just saying that is where people get it from. You act like some damn grammar nazi about it.

Grammar is important when what you label something is inaccurate and can cause confusion. "First four out" does not mean the four teams that just missed the bracket as I clearly described in my previous post. "Out" implies that you are coming from the bottom of the list. "In" implies that you are coming from the top of the list.

You are way overthinking this. First four out makes sense to me. As in they are the first(or top) 4 teams left out of the tournament. Bottom line is you know what they mean.

(03-16-2014 09:53 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 09:45 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:14 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:10 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:56 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  Negative. Last team out. Get a dictionary. When you are eliminating (that's what out means) teams from consideration, the last one removed is the team just outside the bracket. Warren Nolan is one of the few bracktologists who still understand the english language.

If you are including (that's what in means) teams instead of eliminating them, then Southern Miss would be the first team not in, not the first team out.

They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

Wrong. The team just outside the bracket would be the first team consider not in the tournament or the last team considered out of the tournament. Don't confuse the meanings of "in" and "out". "In" means you are adding teams to the bracket. "Out" means you are eliminating teams from the bracket.

To demonstrate, we start with an ordered list of all D1 teams, ordered by resume with auto bid teams at the top of the list.

If we are eliminating teams, we start at the bottom of the list and remove teams until there are 68 left. So the very last team removed from the list would be the "last team out". The first team removed would be the "first team out"

If we are including teams, we start at the top of the list and add teams to the bracket until all 68 slots are filled. So the top team remaining on the list is the "first team not in". The last team on the list would be the "last team not in".

All we have to do is go to espn.com and look. It goes:

Last four byes
Last four in
First four out
Next four out

Yeah. Because ESPN knows it all, right? That still doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

It should state:

Last four byes
Last four in
Last four out (or First four not in)
Previous four out (or Next four not in)


If you go to warrennolan.com, he lists it as

Last four in
Last four out

Arguing over semantics...

(03-16-2014 11:16 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:37 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:22 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I'm just saying that is where people get it from. You act like some damn grammar nazi about it.

Grammar is important when what you label something is inaccurate and can cause confusion. "First four out" does not mean the four teams that just missed the bracket as I clearly described in my previous post. "Out" implies that you are coming from the bottom of the list. "In" implies that you are coming from the top of the list.

You are way overthinking this. First four out makes sense to me. As in they are the first(or top) 4 teams left out of the tournament. Bottom line is you know what they mean.

.
Thank you, I have been reading this thread and thought the same thing. As long as you know what is implied this "ain't" an English class. I mean you can break down just about any thread and look for spelling and grammatical errors like ending sentences with prepositions. Just let it go.
Let's talk about LaTech and USM's chances at a bid. The chances are slim since it's mostly about getting the mediocre Power6 teams in anyway. CUSA is at a disadvantage period.

(03-16-2014 11:16 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:37 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:22 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I'm just saying that is where people get it from. You act like some damn grammar nazi about it.

Grammar is important when what you label something is inaccurate and can cause confusion. "First four out" does not mean the four teams that just missed the bracket as I clearly described in my previous post. "Out" implies that you are coming from the bottom of the list. "In" implies that you are coming from the top of the list.

You are way overthinking this. First four out makes sense to me. As in they are the first(or top) 4 teams left out of the tournament. Bottom line is you know what they mean.

But they aren't the first four left out. They are the last four left out since the team on the bottom is the first team left out. If you want to use "first" instead of "last" use the proper "direction" as in "first four not in". English isn't really that difficult to understand.

(03-16-2014 11:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 09:53 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 09:45 AM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:14 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:10 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  They would be the first team on the committee's list of teams to consider to be out of the tournament.

Wrong. The team just outside the bracket would be the first team consider not in the tournament or the last team considered out of the tournament. Don't confuse the meanings of "in" and "out". "In" means you are adding teams to the bracket. "Out" means you are eliminating teams from the bracket.

To demonstrate, we start with an ordered list of all D1 teams, ordered by resume with auto bid teams at the top of the list.

If we are eliminating teams, we start at the bottom of the list and remove teams until there are 68 left. So the very last team removed from the list would be the "last team out". The first team removed would be the "first team out"

If we are including teams, we start at the top of the list and add teams to the bracket until all 68 slots are filled. So the top team remaining on the list is the "first team not in". The last team on the list would be the "last team not in".

All we have to do is go to espn.com and look. It goes:

Last four byes
Last four in
First four out
Next four out

Yeah. Because ESPN knows it all, right? That still doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

It should state:

Last four byes
Last four in
Last four out (or First four not in)
Previous four out (or Next four not in)


If you go to warrennolan.com, he lists it as

Last four in
Last four out

Arguing over semantics...

Semantics? "Out" means one thing and "in" means another. There is nothing debatable about that.