(03-08-2014 03:49 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 03:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  UH has never won a championship......

on top of that since the tourny expanded to 64 teams UH has
-zero FFs
-zero elite 8s
-zero sweet 16s
-4 tourny appearances
-1 conference championship

no offense but you guys really shouldn't be talking down other schools for their BB programs. especially one that went to the FF last year and is undefeated this year

Maybe you should look at the schools entire history instead of an arbitrary period of "since the establishment of the 64 team tourney".

With five final-4s, 10-sweet sixteens, and 19 trips to the NCAA tournament we compare favorably to most any basketball program in the country. Not to mention the schools role in beggining the modern era of televised college basketball with the game of the century pitting Kareem Abdul-Jabar (before that was his name) and Elvin Hayes in front of over 50K in the Astrodome. UH was one of the first schools to intergrate thier roster. Names like Phi Slamma Jama, Hakeem the Dream, Clyde the Glide, Big E litter the history of the school. Oh, and just this year we added a hall of fame coach to the the schools historical milestones. Bottom line, the University of Houston has one the best basketball histories of any D1 program in existence.

when ranking basketball programs two things i look at are era & consistency. the big knocks against UH are:

-the fact that their program virtually died when the tournament went to 64 teams

-all their FFs came during just 2 runs

-no national championship

-hasn't gotten to a sweet 16 since the tourny expanded

-outside the top 50 in wins

for those reasons there is simply no way id put UH as "one the best basketball histories of any D1 program in existence." personally I wouldn't start to consider them until i am working on the 21-30 group. do they have some teams worth mentioning......yes. is Phi Slama Jama a good story....yes.

but i honestly can not believe you guys are tolling WSU right now. that program has accomplished more in the last year than what you guys have done in the last 30.

And here I thought you had some basketball sense.

Syracuse fan, your post haves so many holes is not even funny. We all agree, Houston it's been absent from basketball for quite sometime, but to ignore Houston's history and accomplishments it's by far the worst post I have ever read from you.

I used to enjoy reading your posts, Syracuse fan, but after your ridiculous, nonsense comical Rice to the B12 posts in the realignment board and now this.

I dont know if you fell down and hit your head, but you're loosing credibility with this Texan guy here, Syracuse fan.

Wichita State has 10 NCAA Tournament appearances. Houston has 10 Sweet Sixteens. So it's hard to say that WSU has a better history than Houston.

But in 2014, Houston is not a better job than Wichita State. Houston has one NCAA appearance since the end of the Cold War, and negligible fan support. The Shockers pack 10,000+ at their games, and are a huge presence in their small market. And Gregg Marshall in particular has a job for life at WSU, if he wants it that way.

If Gregg Marshall ends up coaching in Houston, it's more likely for the Rockets than for the Cougars.

(03-04-2014 06:26 PM)Tigersmoke Wrote:  I understand Quo is actaully a beast homer that likes to come to our board to sling a little negativity and AdCorbett is trying to stress his and the acc superiority over us with his dumb**s manifesto's about what we should do now withoutthe all powerful UofL(advice that he would've scoffed at if UofL weren't leaving),but what part of this stupid hybrid business model you cant understand attackcoog? This conference has to get its own stabilty and branding started during this calm period to have any chance at being decent before we start worrying about expansion. Every biz I have seen grow to fast for no good reason has suffered(poor business model). Lets be careful/smart here.

The thing is your already a hybrid. And one that has a western conference that only has three actual western teams.

I can see why man of you fear adding a basketball school but Wichita brings you much more than that. It stabilizes your western conference because you have SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Wichita all within driving distance of each other. And it helps keep your RPI up if ECU and Tulane bring it down. Not to mention other sports like Baseball that Wichita has been good at.

Most importantly the American would be the dream home for them. I'm sure they would absolutely love playing Tulsa and powers like Uconn, Memphis, and Cincinnati.

I live in Wichita, so I actually would not mind having them in the conference for b-ball only, and getting a chance to see UC come to town. But, we're talking about a TV market of about 500,000 here.

I don't buy the argument that we need a 12th basketball program. Basketball is not typically played in a divisional format (Big XII does not do it, for example). There is not much difference in the top four getting byes and the top five getting them. Not really sure it adds anything substantial.

(03-07-2014 12:15 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 07:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 08:59 PM)Tigersmoke Wrote:  No we are the #3 ranked power conference. The beast is a conference full of pretty good NIT teams that hope they can fool people into thinking they are the real beast, the real beast is no longer but they to be remembered in the history books.

Nobody with a brain is going to confuse the current Big East with the former Big East that also had teams like Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, and Cincinnati. I'm certainly not.

That said, the current Big East is still an excellent basketball conference, in terms of both its national power and its internal cohesiveness. The old Big East always had national power, but in the 1980s it also had amazing internal cohesiveness, which sadly was lost over the years. You simply can't have a book on college basketball history without devoting a substantial chapter to the Big East of 1980 - 1989, it was a phenomenal conference internally and nationally, a true golden era.

We've regained some of that cohesiveness, not a small achievement.

The big east lost its sex appeal when they big state schools bolted. It is the a10 on steroids now.

Huh? During the 1980s golden era, the Big East had no "big state schools". UConn was the only flagship and they were athletically nothing during most of that time. And yet, the Big East was hot as a pistol anyway.

(03-08-2014 07:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Wichita State has 10 NCAA Tournament appearances. Houston has 10 Sweet Sixteens. So it's hard to say that WSU has a better history than Houston.

But in 2014, Houston is not a better job than Wichita State.

Yes, I don't see what the argument is about here, as two things are obvious:

1) Historically, Houston has a far greater legacy than WSU.

2) In the present day, WSU is the much more accomplished and better basketball program.

Thus, it is hard to imagine that a coach would leave WSU for Houston, as that would in no way shape or form be a step up. Yes, Houston is in a better conference, but that means little in college basketball, what matters is the status of the program. E.g., the B1G is a better basketball conference than the SEC, but nobody would leave Kentucky for a job at Nebraska.

(03-08-2014 10:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, Houston is in a better conference, but that means little in college basketball, what matters is the status of the program. E.g., the B1G is a better basketball conference than the SEC, but nobody would leave Kentucky for a job at Nebraska.

In college basketball, you can establish a fortified position in a small conference and maintain it--Gonzaga, Creighton, VCU, Memphis in CUSA 2.0 etc. Conference matters where the gap becomes a chasm. B1G > SEC, but not enough. B1G >>> MVC, so it's not crazy to imagine Gregg Marshall to Purdue or Minnesota. It's unlikely--he turned down UCLA.

If Memphis or Louisville or UConn (or St Johns, or Marquette, etc) were suddenly open, it's not crazy to talk about Marshall leaving WSU for that job, and whether or not the fit makes any sense. But that's about the school, not the conference.

(03-08-2014 07:26 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 03:49 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 03:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  UH has never won a championship......

on top of that since the tourny expanded to 64 teams UH has
-zero FFs
-zero elite 8s
-zero sweet 16s
-4 tourny appearances
-1 conference championship

no offense but you guys really shouldn't be talking down other schools for their BB programs. especially one that went to the FF last year and is undefeated this year

Maybe you should look at the schools entire history instead of an arbitrary period of "since the establishment of the 64 team tourney".

With five final-4s, 10-sweet sixteens, and 19 trips to the NCAA tournament we compare favorably to most any basketball program in the country. Not to mention the schools role in beggining the modern era of televised college basketball with the game of the century pitting Kareem Abdul-Jabar (before that was his name) and Elvin Hayes in front of over 50K in the Astrodome. UH was one of the first schools to intergrate thier roster. Names like Phi Slamma Jama, Hakeem the Dream, Clyde the Glide, Big E litter the history of the school. Oh, and just this year we added a hall of fame coach to the the schools historical milestones. Bottom line, the University of Houston has one the best basketball histories of any D1 program in existence.

when ranking basketball programs two things i look at are era & consistency. the big knocks against UH are:

-the fact that their program virtually died when the tournament went to 64 teams

-all their FFs came during just 2 runs

-no national championship

-hasn't gotten to a sweet 16 since the tourny expanded

-outside the top 50 in wins

for those reasons there is simply no way id put UH as "one the best basketball histories of any D1 program in existence." personally I wouldn't start to consider them until i am working on the 21-30 group. do they have some teams worth mentioning......yes. is Phi Slama Jama a good story....yes.

but i honestly can not believe you guys are tolling WSU right now. that program has accomplished more in the last year than what you guys have done in the last 30.

And here I thought you had some basketball sense.

Syracuse fan, your post haves so many holes is not even funny. We all agree, Houston it's been absent from basketball for quite sometime, but to ignore Houston's history and accomplishments it's by far the worst post I have ever read from you.

I used to enjoy reading your posts, Syracuse fan, but after your ridiculous, nonsense comical Rice to the B12 posts in the realignment board and now this.

I dont know if you fell down and hit your head, but you're loosing credibility with this Texan guy here, Syracuse fan.

sorry but you have to look at the eye test. not all FFs are treated equally. the tourny has changed in competitiveness and difficulty over the years.

on top of that UHs FFs & e8s come in the years 67, 68, 82, 83, & 84. can you not understand the argument that they seriously lack consistency. your 5 FFs essentially come from just 2 different runs and on top of that you don't have anything impressive in wins, winning %, tourny bids, national championships to really say UH is a top 20 program.

(03-08-2014 07:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Wichita State has 10 NCAA Tournament appearances. Houston has 10 Sweet Sixteens. So it's hard to say that WSU has a better history than Houston.

But in 2014, Houston is not a better job than Wichita State. Houston has one NCAA appearance since the end of the Cold War, and negligible fan support. The Shockers pack 10,000+ at their games, and are a huge presence in their small market. And Gregg Marshall in particular has a job for life at WSU, if he wants it that way.

If Gregg Marshall ends up coaching in Houston, it's more likely for the Rockets than for the Cougars.

take a second to breakdown UHs s16s

1956 ==> 25 teams.
1961 ==> 24 teams
1965 ==> 23 teams
1967 ==> 23 teams
1968 ==> 23 teams
1971==> 25 teams

back then the tourny was so small that in some cases a s16 meant nothing more than a tourny bid. in 2 of those years that UH has a s16 they have zero tourny wins go with it.

not trying to turn this into a UH bashing thread but I just wanted to bring up this one point when judging programs.

(03-08-2014 07:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Wichita State has 10 NCAA Tournament appearances. Houston has 10 Sweet Sixteens. So it's hard to say that WSU has a better history than Houston.

But in 2014, Houston is not a better job than Wichita State. Houston has one NCAA appearance since the end of the Cold War, and negligible fan support. The Shockers pack 10,000+ at their games, and are a huge presence in their small market. And Gregg Marshall in particular has a job for life at WSU, if he wants it that way.

If Gregg Marshall ends up coaching in Houston, it's more likely for the Rockets than for the Cougars.

Pretty much this. If the Cougars were to pay big bucks---maybe. I mean Larry Brown went to SMU, which wasnt exactly a college basketball Mecca. But it's academic, I simply don't see us paying big bucks. In fact, our AD has been incredibly hard headed when it comes to Dickey. It's not a sure thing we even get a new coach, much less spring for the bucks necessary to land a guy like Marshall.

(03-08-2014 11:34 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 07:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Wichita State has 10 NCAA Tournament appearances. Houston has 10 Sweet Sixteens. So it's hard to say that WSU has a better history than Houston.

But in 2014, Houston is not a better job than Wichita State. Houston has one NCAA appearance since the end of the Cold War, and negligible fan support. The Shockers pack 10,000+ at their games, and are a huge presence in their small market. And Gregg Marshall in particular has a job for life at WSU, if he wants it that way.

If Gregg Marshall ends up coaching in Houston, it's more likely for the Rockets than for the Cougars.

Pretty much this. If the Cougars were to pay big bucks---maybe. I mean Larry Brown went to SMU, which wasnt exactly a college basketball Mecca. But it's academic, I simply don't see us paying big bucks. In fact, our AD has been incredibly hard headed when it comes to Dickey. It's not a sure thing we even get a new coach, much less spring for the bucks necessary to land a guy like Marshall.

I agree, Attackcoog... I don't see us paying high salaries anytime soon much less replacing coach Dickey right now... Although, renovation of the basketball arena and the new practice facilities have yet begun... I like to believe however, when these basketball phases go in motion, we will see strong positive movements just as we are currently seeing in the football side.

I like the idea of an even number of schools. I think the conference needs to establish two divisions to promote rivalries. Two 6-team divisions will allow a 16 game schedule in BB.

(03-08-2014 02:59 PM)GLinPa Wrote:  I like the idea of an even number of schools. I think the conference needs to establish two divisions to promote rivalries. Two 6-team divisions will allow a 16 game schedule in BB.

Which basketball athletic program would you add and that could help AAC basketball imidietly??? And why???



** Keeping market, basketball history, location and fan support in mind.

(03-08-2014 03:24 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:59 PM)GLinPa Wrote:  I like the idea of an even number of schools. I think the conference needs to establish two divisions to promote rivalries. Two 6-team divisions will allow a 16 game schedule in BB.

Which basketball athletic program would you add and that could help AAC basketball imidietly??? And why???



** Keeping market, basketball history, location and fan support in mind.

Think the usual suspects. Wichita St, VCU, and Sam Houston Institute Technology

(03-08-2014 03:24 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:59 PM)GLinPa Wrote:  I like the idea of an even number of schools. I think the conference needs to establish two divisions to promote rivalries. Two 6-team divisions will allow a 16 game schedule in BB.

Which basketball athletic program would you add and that could help AAC basketball imidietly??? And why???



** Keeping market, basketball history, location and fan support in mind.

We are losing Louisville. What incoming program comes close to replacing that school? We need to add one school that at least fields a team that would consistently challenge for an NCAA bid on a yearly basis. VCU and Wichita would probably be the best two choices at this time. Personally, I think UMass would also be a good choice, but the other two appear to have been the most consistent of late. As Ive said before, Id be fine with adding all 3. Adding all 3 would not specifically replace Louisville, but it would make the conference a deeper conference with greater quality and would provide the conference with a field of 8-10 teams that could challenge for a NCAA bid every year. That's about as close to replacing Louisville as you can get given the situation.

if the aac wants to rebuild they should do it with an all around sports school. any talk of bringing in partial members (with the exception of a service academy) is only counter productive IMO

Between Wichita State and VCU I'll take Wichita State, not even close "Goodbye VCU". The one and only knock against Wichita though, their market is so small.

Wich brings UMass to mind... They bring the east cost market "Population 14th rank", basketball history, huge potential and are slowly climbing back to the ranks.

I don't see anybody else that can match Wichita's current basketball strength and pasion for basketball... However, UMass potential and other positive factors I mention above out weights what Wichita brings, IMO.

I think comes down to UMass > over Wichita

If Wichita State, VCU, SLU, and all these other schools get invited in then my vote is for UC, UCONN, and Memphis to bolt and find another home.

(03-08-2014 05:01 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  If Wichita State, VCU, SLU, and all these other schools get invited in then my vote is for UC, UCONN, and Memphis to bolt and find another home.

You forgot SMU and perhaps Temple

Edit: Oh, and what home might that be???

(03-08-2014 05:01 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  If Wichita State, VCU, SLU, and all these other schools get invited in then my vote is for UC, UCONN, and Memphis to bolt and find another home.

SMH. If they are invited its likely Cincy and the schools you mentioned approved of their presence.