(02-24-2014 11:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dayton does not deliver the Indianapolis market. It's a catholic school in Ohio.

St. Louis actually fits better in the AAC geographically speaking.

Dayton is right in the center of the Big East. Dayton has been better more often and has the city behind them. And the city isn't directly in a pro market like St. Louis (although its very much Reds country). But I don't think anyone is a lock to be #11 or #12 in the Big East.

(02-24-2014 12:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dayton does not deliver the Indianapolis market. It's a catholic school in Ohio.

St. Louis actually fits better in the AAC geographically speaking.

Dayton is right in the center of the Big East. Dayton has been better more often and has the city behind them. And the city isn't directly in a pro market like St. Louis (although its very much Reds country). But I don't think anyone is a lock to be #11 or #12 in the Big East.

I could have been more precise with my comment re Dayton vs Butler in the Indianapolis market. My point wasn't so much that Dayton "delivers" Indianapolis as it was that neither does Butler.

Both Dayton and St Louis are good geographical fits, and both are good cultural fits. And if you're talking basketball, neither is in a pro market (as opposed to Butler).

(02-24-2014 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  3. Remember this. Both the PAC and Big 10 experienced distribution problems. Both of those conferences' networks started out self owned. Who has the greatest leverage with distributors the networks like ESPN or FOX, or a self funded fledgling entity like the BTN or PACN? That's not to say that the SECN hasn't faced some distribution problems, but they are miniscule by comparison.

From what I've read, the SECN is going to have exactly the same problem with distribution that the Pac-12 has, i.e., the problem is with DirecTV.

(02-24-2014 12:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  3. Remember this. Both the PAC and Big 10 experienced distribution problems. Both of those conferences' networks started out self owned. Who has the greatest leverage with distributors the networks like ESPN or FOX, or a self funded fledgling entity like the BTN or PACN? That's not to say that the SECN hasn't faced some distribution problems, but they are miniscule by comparison.

From what I've read, the SECN is going to have exactly the same problem with distribution that the Pac-12 has, i.e., the problem is with DirecTV.

No the SEC is already under contract with Uverse. AT&T is partnered with Direct TV in the Southeast. If Direct TV refuses to pick it up Uverse will replace them within a year. Given the % of business that Direct TV does in the Southeast they will lose a high % of their business if they haven't gotten on board by the Fall. Dish is signing on as well and would love the Direct TV business in the SE.

(02-24-2014 12:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dayton does not deliver the Indianapolis market. It's a catholic school in Ohio.

St. Louis actually fits better in the AAC geographically speaking.

Dayton is right in the center of the Big East. Dayton has been better more often and has the city behind them. And the city isn't directly in a pro market like St. Louis (although its very much Reds country). But I don't think anyone is a lock to be #11 or #12 in the Big East.

And that is a big key. It is not an accident that Dayton hosts the First Four every year.

I think the largest problem for Dayton appears to be that Xavier does not want them in the Big East. They have no desire to share the southern Ohio market with another Big East team.. SLU is a likely choice, and from what I have heard from a few sources, the other two main choices are Dayton and Richmond. We shall see if the A10 gets a couple more teams into the NCAA's than the Big East does, there might be a likelihood that they expand sooner rather than later.

Odd since Xavier and Dayton were in the same conference for so many years. The BE would be wise not to allow a team to blackball another, as they already allowed that to happen too many times in the past. Especially a new member.

(02-24-2014 01:36 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Odd since Xavier and Dayton were in the same conference for so many years. The BE would be wise not to allow a team to blackball another, as they already allowed that to happen too many times in the past. Especially a new member.

I don't believe that. And Xavier doesn't carry Dayton.

The Big East went with who was hottest-Creighton, Butler and Xavier. They were also spread out geographically. St. Louis and Dayton seem the most logical, but as I said, I don't think anyone is a lock. Maybe Canisius gets to the final 4 next year. Or Richmond. Or Detroit.

(02-24-2014 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 12:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  3. Remember this. Both the PAC and Big 10 experienced distribution problems. Both of those conferences' networks started out self owned. Who has the greatest leverage with distributors the networks like ESPN or FOX, or a self funded fledgling entity like the BTN or PACN? That's not to say that the SECN hasn't faced some distribution problems, but they are miniscule by comparison.

From what I've read, the SECN is going to have exactly the same problem with distribution that the Pac-12 has, i.e., the problem is with DirecTV.

No the SEC is already under contract with Uverse. AT&T is partnered with Direct TV in the Southeast. If Direct TV refuses to pick it up Uverse will replace them within a year. Given the % of business that Direct TV does in the Southeast they will lose a high % of their business if they haven't gotten on board by the Fall. Dish is signing on as well and would love the Direct TV business in the SE.

PTN is on UVerse and Dish and pretty much every major cable system. I have UVerse, and I like it, but I don't think DirecTV has been hit with a large net loss of subscribers. DirecTV makes generous offers to anyone who calls to cancel service, including a free year of NFL Sunday Ticket or other premium sports service. I bet that works for all but the most diehard fans.

(02-24-2014 01:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 12:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  3. Remember this. Both the PAC and Big 10 experienced distribution problems. Both of those conferences' networks started out self owned. Who has the greatest leverage with distributors the networks like ESPN or FOX, or a self funded fledgling entity like the BTN or PACN? That's not to say that the SECN hasn't faced some distribution problems, but they are miniscule by comparison.

From what I've read, the SECN is going to have exactly the same problem with distribution that the Pac-12 has, i.e., the problem is with DirecTV.

No the SEC is already under contract with Uverse. AT&T is partnered with Direct TV in the Southeast. If Direct TV refuses to pick it up Uverse will replace them within a year. Given the % of business that Direct TV does in the Southeast they will lose a high % of their business if they haven't gotten on board by the Fall. Dish is signing on as well and would love the Direct TV business in the SE.

PTN is on UVerse and Dish and pretty much every major cable system. I have UVerse, and I like it, but I don't think DirecTV has been hit with a large net loss of subscribers. DirecTV makes generous offers to anyone who calls to cancel service, including a free year of NFL Sunday Ticket or other premium sports service. I bet that works for all but the most diehard fans.

It won't work in the Southeast. Our priorities are different. Uverse will be available in our state in 2 months. Bye bye Direct TV.

(02-24-2014 01:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  The Big East went with who was hottest-Creighton, Butler and Xavier. They were also spread out geographically. St. Louis and Dayton seem the most logical, but as I said, I don't think anyone is a lock. Maybe Canisius gets to the final 4 next year. Or Richmond. Or Detroit.

Well Butler was "hot," but Creighton and Xavier have always been decent schools with high attendance in elite college basketball markets (elite as in a college basketball market). Butler was the hot teams, but I think the other two get invited one way or another. Especially Xavier.

(02-24-2014 01:44 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  The Big East went with who was hottest-Creighton, Butler and Xavier. They were also spread out geographically. St. Louis and Dayton seem the most logical, but as I said, I don't think anyone is a lock. Maybe Canisius gets to the final 4 next year. Or Richmond. Or Detroit.

Well Butler was "hot," but Creighton and Xavier have always been decent schools with high attendance in elite college basketball markets (elite as in a college basketball market). Butler was the hot teams, but I think the other two get invited one way or another. Especially Xavier.

20 years ago Butler, Creighton and Xavier wouldn't have even been seriously thought of compared to Dayton. Creighton and Xavier have always been solid, but have been very good the last 5-10 years.

(02-24-2014 01:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 12:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  3. Remember this. Both the PAC and Big 10 experienced distribution problems. Both of those conferences' networks started out self owned. Who has the greatest leverage with distributors the networks like ESPN or FOX, or a self funded fledgling entity like the BTN or PACN? That's not to say that the SECN hasn't faced some distribution problems, but they are miniscule by comparison.

From what I've read, the SECN is going to have exactly the same problem with distribution that the Pac-12 has, i.e., the problem is with DirecTV.

No the SEC is already under contract with Uverse. AT&T is partnered with Direct TV in the Southeast. If Direct TV refuses to pick it up Uverse will replace them within a year. Given the % of business that Direct TV does in the Southeast they will lose a high % of their business if they haven't gotten on board by the Fall. Dish is signing on as well and would love the Direct TV business in the SE.

PTN is on UVerse and Dish and pretty much every major cable system. I have UVerse, and I like it, but I don't think DirecTV has been hit with a large net loss of subscribers. DirecTV makes generous offers to anyone who calls to cancel service, including a free year of NFL Sunday Ticket or other premium sports service. I bet that works for all but the most diehard fans.

It won't work in the Southeast. Our priorities are different. Uverse will be available in our state in 2 months. Bye bye Direct TV.

We'll see soon enough. I suspect DirecTV won't sign onto SECN until their contract with ESPN expires at the end of 2014. NFL Sunday Ticket is a winner over the SEC even in the Southeast. Just not as big a winner as everywhere else.

(02-24-2014 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  20 years ago Butler, Creighton and Xavier wouldn't have even been seriously thought of compared to Dayton. Creighton and Xavier have always been solid, but have been very good the last 5-10 years.

My location probably gives me a different view, as I am less than 100 miles from 3 of the 4 you mentioned.

(02-24-2014 01:59 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  20 years ago Butler, Creighton and Xavier wouldn't have even been seriously thought of compared to Dayton. Creighton and Xavier have always been solid, but have been very good the last 5-10 years.

My location probably gives me a different view, as I am less than 100 miles from 3 of the 4 you mentioned.

I have lived in central Indiana, Dayton and Cincinnati.

(02-24-2014 02:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:59 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 01:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  20 years ago Butler, Creighton and Xavier wouldn't have even been seriously thought of compared to Dayton. Creighton and Xavier have always been solid, but have been very good the last 5-10 years.

My location probably gives me a different view, as I am less than 100 miles from 3 of the 4 you mentioned.

I have lived in central Indiana, Dayton and Cincinnati.

Historically speaking Bullett is right. UD was a regular in the NCAA tournament in the 60s, 70s and 80s. They went to the NIT finals in the 60s. They reached an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen in the 70s and 80s. On the other hand, Xavier thas been stronger than UD over the past 15-20 years. Xavier was pretty much nothing back in the 60-80s (their rise started in the late 80s under Pete Gillen).

UD has tremendous support in Dayton. They regularly sell out their 13,000 seat arena and Daytonites are very passionate about the Flyers.

Creighton was a bit of a dark horse for Big East expansion but they convinced the right people:

http://omaha.com/article/20130630/NEWS/706309914

(02-24-2014 02:47 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Creighton was a bit of a dark horse for Big East expansion but they convinced the right people:

http://omaha.com/article/20130630/NEWS/706309914

The fraternity of Catholic universities is very tight, and the relationships in particular among the Jesuit schools are both broad and deep.

(02-23-2014 09:13 PM)CoogNellie Wrote:  

(02-23-2014 09:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  a big reason why there was so much discussion of texas to the pac10 is because culturally they fit in better with that conference than one would expect.

that plus the fact that the p12 can accommodate all four of the texahoma gives the pac a huge advantage over the SEC in luring texas.

plus it doesn't help that texas would essentially have to follow little brother to their conference.

You absolutely nailed it. That's why I think it's really the Pac 12, Big 12, or Independence for Texas. I don't think the SEC, ACC, or Big 10 would ever make the most sense for the Longhorns.

(02-24-2014 01:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 12:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  3. Remember this. Both the PAC and Big 10 experienced distribution problems. Both of those conferences' networks started out self owned. Who has the greatest leverage with distributors the networks like ESPN or FOX, or a self funded fledgling entity like the BTN or PACN? That's not to say that the SECN hasn't faced some distribution problems, but they are miniscule by comparison.

From what I've read, the SECN is going to have exactly the same problem with distribution that the Pac-12 has, i.e., the problem is with DirecTV.

No the SEC is already under contract with Uverse. AT&T is partnered with Direct TV in the Southeast. If Direct TV refuses to pick it up Uverse will replace them within a year. Given the % of business that Direct TV does in the Southeast they will lose a high % of their business if they haven't gotten on board by the Fall. Dish is signing on as well and would love the Direct TV business in the SE.

Your absolutely right. When BTN started up, Dish Network didn't want to pay price BTN was asking. When fans couldn't watch their teams games they switch to Direct TV at such a rapid pace Dish Network had no choice but to agreed with price within a month.

(02-23-2014 06:58 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Nobody was sure they would be acted on but it happened. What moves out there seem obvious to happen eventually but havent' been made yet?

Rice to the ACC.

Here's why:
1. gives the ACC entry into Texas market for recruiting/exposure
2. addresses SEC's move of adding Texas A&M (Texas market)
3. city of Houston is closest major Texas city to eastern border of state
4. aligns more with ACC's predominance of academically oriented schools than SEC has (Duke, UNC, VA, GA Tech, Wake Forest)
5. large stadium (currently 45,000, easily expandable to original capacity of 72,000 by removing tarps)
6. large city/market of Houston would be open to filling Rice's large stadium to watch major teams in FB like FL State, Clemson, etc... and Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse in basketball. Plus added bonus of perennial Top 20 and recent National Championship (2003) Baseball program at Rice complements already strong ACC baseball programs of national prominence.