(02-24-2014 11:02 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:55 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

That is way oversimplified. The P5's have attendance locked up. How do you explain Rutger and Maryland using your theory?

IMO, if Tulane is competitive in FBall and Bball (not winning league championships, just going to bowl games and having a shot at a NCAA bid), it will be more valuable than ECU.

Rutgers and Maryland both average over 40k a game, in bad years. Plus, they are the #1 football programs in their state.

In terms of actual bodies in the seats, Rutgers and Maryland will be at the absolute bottom of the B10. No one and I mean no one goes to Maryland games.

ECU has a ton of loyal fans and wins FBall games but the fact remains that Tulane, despite being absolutely putrid on the field and in the stands, was invited first. We are finally investing + actually setting some standards, and the early returns are positive. Leagues covet NOLA for a variety of reasons and LA is, not only in the heart of college sports mecca of the deep south, the one outlying with just one P5 school. TU has so much potential, it is mind boggling that our admin has been clueless.

(02-24-2014 10:41 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  10 school fb conference with 9 game schedule. 9 school all-sport league with 16 bb conference games. The championship game is not worth the additions.

18 BB games is better. Tightens up SOS and RPIs, and keeps network value. If you went with your plan, if not a non fb member for a 10th team, perhaps having two 3 game series. That would be a new wrinkle. Cincinnati and Memphis getting to play three times. UConn and Temple, USF and USF, etc. (the math is a little funky to where you have to eliminate a couple of home and homes though)

I worry about Tulsa's growth potential and whether or not they have already hit their ceiling

(02-24-2014 11:14 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:41 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  10 school fb conference with 9 game schedule. 9 school all-sport league with 16 bb conference games. The championship game is not worth the additions.

18 BB games is better. Tightens up SOS and RPIs, and keeps network value. If you went with your plan, if not a non fb member for a 10th team, perhaps having two 3 game series. That would be a new wrinkle. Cincinnati and Memphis getting to play three times. UConn and Temple, USF and USF, etc. (the math is a little funky to where you have to eliminate a couple of home and homes though)

What's the point of this type of discussion?

What other irrelevant debates can we have?

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

(02-24-2014 11:17 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:14 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:41 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  10 school fb conference with 9 game schedule. 9 school all-sport league with 16 bb conference games. The championship game is not worth the additions.

18 BB games is better. Tightens up SOS and RPIs, and keeps network value. If you went with your plan, if not a non fb member for a 10th team, perhaps having two 3 game series. That would be a new wrinkle. Cincinnati and Memphis getting to play three times. UConn and Temple, USF and USF, etc. (the math is a little funky to where you have to eliminate a couple of home and homes though)

What's the point of this type of discussion?

What other irrelevant debates can we have?

I didn't bring it up. don't ask me. I just added to his thought, because I don't think 9 is a good number. Plus the idea of a three game series within the league intrigues me.

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

cincy=29k utah=43k duke=26k.. ecu=50k utsa=30k marshall=27k ..in total yes they do

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

It's trying to make a correlation to fit one's argument. Despite only playing Bball the BE deal blows the AAC deal out of the water, yet from an attendance POV the BE is not destroying the AAC by any means. So about the same Bball attendance and no FBall, yet they get what double the AAC?

When assessing value, market is just as important as attendance or W/L's. They are all part of the formula and focusing on one over the other is reckless. This is why I say Tulane with the caveat that our admin actually keeps their word and competes with our friends on a somewhat even playing field.

(02-24-2014 11:29 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

cincy=29k utah=43k duke=26k.. ecu=50k utsa=30k marshall=27k ..in total yes they do

Don't know where you got these numbers but:

ECU: 44k
UTSA: 29k
Marshall: 25k

Cincinnati: 32k
Utah: 45k
Duke: 26k

Slight difference, but let's be honest, you're taking the cream of the crop from CUSA vs a small private school, a program in shambles, and a school whose stadium is knowingly attendance-capped.

(02-24-2014 11:29 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

cincy=29k utah=43k duke=26k.. ecu=50k utsa=30k marshall=27k ..in total yes they do

So many attendance figures are wildly inflated.

(02-23-2014 03:25 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Which program ends up most successful, grows the most, and proves most valuable?

Most successful: Probably ECU

Most potential for growth: Tulane

Most valuable: Depends on what you mean by value. If we are talking about value as it relates to TV contracts, it is probably Tulane (abcorbett laid out a compelling arguing for why that is the case). If we are talking about value as it relates to fans, then my money is on ECU.

(02-24-2014 11:29 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

The ESPN deal was signed with the L'Ville/Rutgers departures and the ECU/Tulane/Tulsa additions accounted for. So if you take those into account, and look at the average attendance of both conferences, the American and MWC are pretty much on par with one another. And Duke, Cincy, and Utah averaged higher than UTSA, Marshall, and ECU combined in 2013.

i did take that into account mwc has 1 team that is 35k+ (and because fresno was undefeated this year they are normally 32k) we have 3 currently another in navy on the way, in total we'd be dramatically better

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

In football UTSA and Marshall are very close to Cincy and Duke in attendance actually. In fact, if Marshall and UTSA had the home opponents on the schedule that Duke and Cincinnati have regularly, they'd blow them away.

(02-24-2014 12:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

In football UTSA and Marshall are very close to Cincy and Duke in attendance actually. In fact, if Marshall and UTSA had the home opponents on the schedule that Duke and Cincinnati have regularly, they'd blow them away.

Not sure about that. Marshall is a peasant school with a peasant mentality.

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

Utah, yes. The other 4 are basically interchangeable.

(02-24-2014 11:40 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:29 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 10:48 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  ECU home games will look the most like an SEC home game from a fan support point of view. For better or worse, recruits, pundits, and networks pay attention to this as much as winning in alot of cases. Let's face it, if half our league were averaging 45k a game already, the American would be making way more than $22 million/year from ESPN. There's a direct correlation between average league attendance and TV deal money. By virtue of that, ECU is the most valuable by far out of the three coming in for 2014.

wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

cincy=29k utah=43k duke=26k.. ecu=50k utsa=30k marshall=27k ..in total yes they do

So many attendance figures are wildly inflated.

Those are pretty sound numbers. Except for ecu who only had 45k in cusa purgatory. Still averaging over 47k since 2010. Also we are NOT overshadowed in our state lol...we own east of I95.

Now 20k in the superdome? That was a stretch.

Navy is by far the best 2015 option

(02-24-2014 11:16 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  I worry about Tulsa's growth potential and whether or not they have already hit their ceiling

In both basketball and football Tulsa has had times of even better success and attendance than it did in the last decade. Reference the mid 60's to mid 70's in football when we had guys redefining the game in football with 30K attendance not being out of the norm. In Basketball the early 80's and all of the 90's were exciting. Frequent sell out crowds, lots of success 2 NIT's and a slew of NCAA wins. The Football of the late 90's and the Basketball of the mid to late 2000's really took a toll on Tulsa attendance. Football is getting back to the trend it was on before Dave Rader. and Basketball has taken an immediate bounce back after Wojcik left. If we get to be an above average team in the AAC basketball scene next year people are going to start really getting excited in town.

With basketball powerhouses UConn, Memphis, Cincy, (rising) SMU, Temple, & Houston all probably visiting Tulsa, it's going to draw bigger crowds than UAB and Rice would.

(02-24-2014 03:36 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:40 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:29 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:23 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  wow that is twisting the logic
our deal is minutely better than the MWC and on average we have dramatically better attendance.
you found a small correlation and tried to use that as the deciding factor.

bigger brands, national following and size of the market (as in how much you control, aka could be whole state) are what decides tv deals and coincidentally normally means you have larger attendance.

by your definition utsa, marshall and ecu would have a dramatically better tv deal than cincy, utah, duke which would be extremely wrong.

certain things correlate to better tv deal, that in most cases also correlate to better attendance. attendance isn't a "diret correlation" to tv deal

Pretty sure Cincy, Utah, and Duke have better attendance than UTSA and Marshall

cincy=29k utah=43k duke=26k.. ecu=50k utsa=30k marshall=27k ..in total yes they do

So many attendance figures are wildly inflated.

Those are pretty sound numbers. Except for ecu who only had 45k in cusa purgatory. Still averaging over 47k since 2010. Also we are NOT overshadowed in our state lol...we own east of I95.

Now 20k in the superdome? That was a stretch.

Why is new fbs utsa even in this conversation