emu steve
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Zone defense and rebounding
This is from the main board:
"Don't want to sound disagreeable, but EMU is NOT a good rebounding team.
I ASSUME it is because of the zone that defenders are not in optimal position to block out.
Instead they attempt to close out (and out away from the basket) on long shots so the offensive player actually has the rebounding advantage. [the defender is moving away from the hoop]
In man-to-man the defender should have inside position on the offensive player [and facing the basket].
Am I on to something here??? "
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02-21-2014 10:52 AM |
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EAGLE KING
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
No because regardless of if you are playing a man or a zone defense you should always be on the inside of the shooter and closer to the basket. In both a zone and man you always close out on a shooter; meaning put a hand in their face, then after the shot immediately turn your body around and use your backside to box out the shooter. That part of rebounding does not change from a zone to a man defense. However the main difference in regards to rebounding is that in a man defense you have your matchup and thus the man that you are responsible for boxing out. In a zone like ours players are in certain areas not necessarily by another player and must find the closest body to box out, making it harder at times to find your responsibility and thus missed assignments happen and second chance points ensue.
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02-21-2014 11:17 AM |
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EMUAARON
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
eagleking nailed it. it's slightly more difficult, but that's it. harrison and strickland are the only guys i see who properly box out among the forwards. riley relies on height, ward is passive, and GB relies on athleticism.
also, more threes against the zone means more long rebounds, so guards need to box out even when they're 18+ feet from the hoop.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2014 11:29 AM by EMUAARON.)
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02-21-2014 11:26 AM |
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emu steve
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 11:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote: eagleking nailed it. it's slightly more difficult, but that's it. harrison and strickland are the only guys i see who properly box out among the forwards. riley relies on height, ward is passive, and GB relies on athleticism.
You forgot Ajayi: "Ajayi relies on WWE moves to box out/immobilize his man'. (his WWE move was a defensive highlight of the night).
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02-21-2014 12:24 PM |
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emu steve
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 11:17 AM)EAGLE KING Wrote: No because regardless of if you are playing a man or a zone defense you should always be on the inside of the shooter and closer to the basket. In both a zone and man you always close out on a shooter; meaning put a hand in their face, then after the shot immediately turn your body around and use your backside to box out the shooter. That part of rebounding does not change from a zone to a man defense. However the main difference in regards to rebounding is that in a man defense you have your matchup and thus the man that you are responsible for boxing out. In a zone like ours players are in certain areas not necessarily by another player and must find the closest body to box out, making it harder at times to find your responsibility and thus missed assignments happen and second chance points ensue.
Excellent.
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02-21-2014 12:25 PM |
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EA3
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
emu considered a "bad" rebounding team because 1. they lose the rebounding war consistently or 2. they don't corral as many rebounds as other teams per game?
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02-21-2014 01:55 PM |
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emussuperfan
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 10:52 AM)emu steve Wrote: This is from the main board:
"Don't want to sound disagreeable, but EMU is NOT a good rebounding team.
I ASSUME it is because of the zone that defenders are not in optimal position to block out.
Instead they attempt to close out (and out away from the basket) on long shots so the offensive player actually has the rebounding advantage. [the defender is moving away from the hoop]
In man-to-man the defender should have inside position on the offensive player [and facing the basket].
Am I on to something here??? "
It happening on both ends so it can't just be the zone defence.
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02-21-2014 02:13 PM |
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emussuperfan
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 11:26 AM)EMUAARON Wrote: eagleking nailed it. it's slightly more difficult, but that's it. harrison and strickland are the only guys i see who properly box out among the forwards. riley relies on height, ward is passive, and GB relies on athleticism.
also, more threes against the zone means more long rebounds, so guards need to box out even when they're 18+ feet from the hoop.
Against NIU we were out rebounded by 16 and hardly took 3 in the secound half. It hall has to with positioning and most time we are out of position.
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02-21-2014 02:18 PM |
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EA3
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
Since Murphy has taken over, I've always thought EMU's numbers are really really skewed due to pace of play.
Example, if Glen Bryant averages 11 points per game....it's pretty much equivalent to 14 per game in a different system.
Same could be happening if someone is looking at rebounds per game.
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02-21-2014 02:18 PM |
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EMUAARON
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 02:18 PM)EA3 Wrote: Since Murphy has taken over, I've always thought EMU's numbers are really really skewed due to pace of play.
Example, if Glen Bryant averages 11 points per game....it's pretty much equivalent to 14 per game in a different system.
Same could be happening if someone is looking at rebounds per game.
hey EA3! good to hear from you.
you make a good point about certain stats that are looked at "per game", but we get outrebounded in a lot of games, even when we have a size advantage.
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02-21-2014 03:00 PM |
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EA3
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 03:00 PM)EMUAARON Wrote: (02-21-2014 02:18 PM)EA3 Wrote: Since Murphy has taken over, I've always thought EMU's numbers are really really skewed due to pace of play.
Example, if Glen Bryant averages 11 points per game....it's pretty much equivalent to 14 per game in a different system.
Same could be happening if someone is looking at rebounds per game.
hey EA3! good to hear from you.
you make a good point about certain stats that are looked at "per game", but we get outrebounded in a lot of games, even when we have a size advantage.
Partially the system...and partially Murphy not emphasizing it. What I mean is that it's really tough to be active on the offensive boards when you run a 3 man weave for 20 seconds, then run a play. You guys have the athletes and length to rebound. I just think your big guys are typically watching the first 20 seconds of every offensive possession. It's hard to flip the switch on and off and be aggressive on the offensive boards in that situation. EMU likely misses out on a few offensive rebounds simply because of that.
I do think that your players get hosed in regards to recognition due to pace of play. Throw Ward, Bryant, Lee or Talley (or others) on a team like Kent and they'll likely average 15 per game or more. They are THAT talented. Murphy just handcuffs the offense.
See you fellas Sunday. Should be a good game...just hopefully not ugly :)
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02-21-2014 04:34 PM |
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EagleSam
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
(02-21-2014 04:34 PM)EA3 Wrote: (02-21-2014 03:00 PM)EMUAARON Wrote: (02-21-2014 02:18 PM)EA3 Wrote: Since Murphy has taken over, I've always thought EMU's numbers are really really skewed due to pace of play.
Example, if Glen Bryant averages 11 points per game....it's pretty much equivalent to 14 per game in a different system.
Same could be happening if someone is looking at rebounds per game.
hey EA3! good to hear from you.
you make a good point about certain stats that are looked at "per game", but we get outrebounded in a lot of games, even when we have a size advantage.
Partially the system...and partially Murphy not emphasizing it. What I mean is that it's really tough to be active on the offensive boards when you run a 3 man weave for 20 seconds, then run a play. You guys have the athletes and length to rebound. I just think your big guys are typically watching the first 20 seconds of every offensive possession. It's hard to flip the switch on and off and be aggressive on the offensive boards in that situation. EMU likely misses out on a few offensive rebounds simply because of that.
I do think that your players get hosed in regards to recognition due to pace of play. Throw Ward, Bryant, Lee or Talley (or others) on a team like Kent and they'll likely average 15 per game or more. They are THAT talented. Murphy just handcuffs the offense.
See you fellas Sunday. Should be a good game...just hopefully not ugly :)
Yeahhhh we rarely run the weave anymore, if at all. Surprisingly, we push the ball a ton this year. Only at the end of games does our offense revert to it's stagnant nonsense. I think Murphy gives Talley too much freedom. He took some TERRIBLE shots yesterday when guys like Ward and Harrison were wide open. He was in "Carlos Medlock" mode, but at least Los could shoot.
I love Talley...he's a joy to watch in transition, and generally takes care of the ball. But he was a ball hog last night, and our coach could do something about it, but he refuses to.
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02-21-2014 04:47 PM |
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EA3
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RE: Zone defense and rebounding
Admittedly, I haven't seen much of EMU last year. I was referring to what I've seen in the previous two seasons.
Rule as always, don't listen to a thing I say. :)
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02-21-2014 05:02 PM |
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