The unofficial online home for fans of the UAB Blazers. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(02-18-2014 05:56 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 05:02 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:07 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:22 AM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  It was a good article.

I like any article that champions UAB and realizes that Birmingham would be a lot crappier without it.

So we can thank UA for allowing Birmingham to have an extension of the university in Tuscaloosa.

The BoT in 1968, anyway.

And it wasn't benevolence, but common sense. You put a teaching hospital where the people are.

The medical school was moved from Mobile - where it was a one year school - to Tuscaloosa - where it became a two year school and in the 1940s was moved to B'ham where it became a four year school. During the Space Decade of the 1960s, Werner von Braun told the state legislature that if they didn't immediately set up a top flight engineering school in Huntsville, he would recommend that Congress take the space program to Houston.

At that time, building up AL A&M into an integrated engineering school was not something the state legislature could deal with so UAH was established, and while they were about it, they upgraded the UA Extension Center in B'ham into UAB in 1969. Since both were to be primarily academic schools, no thought was given to either of them getting involved in any level of athletics, especially not at the D1 level. That all happened in the next decade or two.

As we have all become (painfully) aware, our state legislature is not known for thinking and planning more than one year ahead at a time. EX: They can't tell any school district today what funding it will have in the coming August,2014 school term.

*sigh*

(02-18-2014 05:58 PM)BIG BABY BLAZER Wrote:  I thought Birmingham was a bank town after the steel industry got smaller. Compass, Regions, Southtrust.AND AMSOUTH.

Compass became BBVA Compass - partly Spanish owned
SouthTrust became Wachovia then Wells Fargo - North Carolina owned
First Alabama became Regions
AMSOUTH was bought out by Regions who also bought the "UP" Bank (Union Planters)

(02-18-2014 06:03 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 05:58 PM)BIG BABY BLAZER Wrote:  I thought Birmingham was a bank town after the steel industry got smaller. Compass, Regions, Southtrust.AND AMSOUTH.

Compass became BBVA Compass - partly Spanish owned
SouthTrust became Wachovia then Wells Fargo - North Carolina owned
First Alabama became Regions
Who bought out AMSOUTH?

I know. But after the decline of the steel industry were they not Alabama owned? Did they not employ a lot of Birmingham citizens doing that time?

(02-18-2014 06:09 PM)BIG BABY BLAZER Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 06:03 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 05:58 PM)BIG BABY BLAZER Wrote:  I thought Birmingham was a bank town after the steel industry got smaller. Compass, Regions, Southtrust.AND AMSOUTH.

Compass became BBVA Compass - partly Spanish owned
SouthTrust became Wachovia then Wells Fargo - North Carolina owned
First Alabama became Regions
Who bought out AMSOUTH? REGIONS

I know. But after the decline of the steel industry were they not Alabama owned? Did they not employ a lot of Birmingham citizens doing that time?

USX closed down completely near 1980 but after renovating its furnaces (open hearth to "Q-BOP") it reopened a pipe mill and a slab caster in Fairfield cutting from about 32,000 to about 4,000 employees. It is said that the remaining people today make as much or more than the 32,000 in the 1970s because they have a greater degree of technical training and expertise. They are also said to earn as much or more than the hourly shift wage earners (non-professional) of UAB.

Banking employment has been reduced because the owner / management side is not in the metro area anymore.

(02-18-2014 09:59 AM)LairDweller Wrote:  A smaller Detroit

Came here to say this.

Another interesting slice of Birmingham history is that in late 1950s there was a movement to re-unify Birmingham and the over-the-mountain communities. Obviously it failed, but had that happened the future of the city would have been very different. Birmingham really is a city of what-ifs: Mayor-Council Act happened earlier, Albert Boutwell been a stronger leader, re-annexation, Delta hub, etc.

in a 1964 vote, Homewood actually approved annexation by 7 votes but it was thrown out on a technicality. In the appeal revote, the measure was defeated by 1,700 votes.

...Gary, Indiana...

A rest stop on the way to the beaches of the Gulf Coast.

(02-18-2014 12:23 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  EVERY major Alabama city is dependent upon its local resources many of which are run and , in some cases, owned by those who live elsewhere. USX, which employs about 4,000 steel workers, has a larger payroll than UAB if you only count those at UAB who live within B'ham. The top paid UAB people are found in 280 and I-65/59/20 rush hour traffic everyday. UAB can't unify a metro area that many of its major leaders help to maintain in separate political entities.

Sure, I would love to see a metro area government as seen in Mobile and other southern cities. The push for it must come from those who have encouraged its separation into local fiefdoms. The central city can't lead it, nor can UAB with its own divisions of income levels. As with school districts, the current push in our metro area (Gardendale, Irondale, Pelham) is for MORE separation, not less.

More people at UAB that make a lot of money live within the city limits of Birmingham than you'd think.

(02-18-2014 05:02 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 04:07 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:22 AM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  It was a good article.

I like any article that champions UAB and realizes that Birmingham would be a lot crappier without it.

So we can thank UA for allowing Birmingham to have an extension of the university in Tuscaloosa.

The BoT in 1968, anyway.

And it wasn't benevolence, but common sense. You put a teaching hospital where the people are.

IIRC it was the Governor at the time (who wasn't named Wallace) who pushed for a full separation.

(02-18-2014 06:09 PM)BIG BABY BLAZER Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 06:03 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 05:58 PM)BIG BABY BLAZER Wrote:  I thought Birmingham was a bank town after the steel industry got smaller. Compass, Regions, Southtrust.AND AMSOUTH.

Compass became BBVA Compass - partly Spanish owned
SouthTrust became Wachovia then Wells Fargo - North Carolina owned
First Alabama became Regions
Who bought out AMSOUTH?

I know. But after the decline of the steel industry were they not Alabama owned? Did they not employ a lot of Birmingham citizens doing that time?

Sure, in the past Birmingham had a large banking employment base, but that is mostly gone and has been since the mid 2000s.

I don't think UAB is in a position to be the catalyst for the political change that needs to happen in Bham because they are a public entity. Charlotte wiped downtown out and rebuilt from scratch, and also created the unified Char-Meck government (Charlotte-Mecklenberg Co) that rolled in all metro entities (they are now "districts," because Wachovia, Bank of America, and others got together and said they were relocating if it didn't happen. Of course, they backed up their threat with monies to help the transition. Not that Red Diamond is THAT large, but we saw the city's shortsighted reaction when they threatened to move...

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(02-19-2014 02:39 PM)blazr Wrote:  I don't think UAB is in a position to be the catalyst for the political change that needs to happen in Bham because they are a public entity. Charlotte wiped downtown out and rebuilt from scratch, and also created the unified Char-Meck government (Charlotte-Mecklenberg Co) that rolled in all metro entities (they are now "districts," because Wachovia, Bank of America, and others got together and said they were relocating if it didn't happen. Of course, they backed up their threat with monies to help the transition. Not that Red Diamond is THAT large, but we saw the city's shortsighted reaction when they threatened to move...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Well the difference is that Red Diamond didn't leave the metro area. UAB can't threaten to leave, but Regions, Compass Bank, Alabama Power, etc. could all threaten to leave but it has to be an impact to the whole area, not just "we're going to leave Birmingham for Alabaster" because that just pits the central city vs. the suburbs. They need to threaten to leave for Mobile or Montgomery. Even then, I don't see a unified government ever happening here. Three over the mountain cities (Mtn Brook, Vestavia, and Homewood) couldn't even come to an agreement to merge their city jail operations. In what universe will cities like that ever agree to merge with Birmingham or worse Jefferson County?

You *might* be able to merge Birmingham with unincorporated Jefferson County (which is the model Louisville went with, I think) but you'll still have dozens of other jurisdictions and school systems and whatnot, and that's not even considering Shelby County.

(02-19-2014 03:41 PM)legalblazer Wrote:  How do you convince one of the wealthiest and highest educated cities in the country (Mountain Brook) that has an excellent public school system that giving up autonomy to join forces with one of the poorest, poorly educated cities with a lackluster education system is a good idea? Hint: Telling them they are amoral for not doing so is probably the wrong answer.

BTW - in terms of GDP, Birmingham is 50th in metro areas in the U.S., and falls in between Sri Lanka and the Dominican Republic when compared to countries...
http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/2...report.pdf

I don't know what will convince all these little fiefdoms that working together would help them all, but the biggest thing dragging down the Birmingham Metro area is that lack of cooperation.

Each little city/town/village has to have it's own government, police department, fire department, school board, water authority, sewer department, etc. etc. and they all pay for layers and layers of duplication. How many Police Chiefs does the Birmingham area need, to take a single for instance?

Add in that not only do they not cooperate and all work together to make things better for Birmingham and the surrounding counties, but they actively backstab and block each other.

If such a mess of a government then tries to compete with a Chattanooga, Mobile, Huntsville that is not such a heap of dysfunction, it is so gimped before the start that it loses time after time.

I have no clue how to break that cycle.

(02-19-2014 04:10 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 03:41 PM)legalblazer Wrote:  How do you convince one of the wealthiest and highest educated cities in the country (Mountain Brook) that has an excellent public school system that giving up autonomy to join forces with one of the poorest, poorly educated cities with a lackluster education system is a good idea? Hint: Telling them they are amoral for not doing so is probably the wrong answer.

BTW - in terms of GDP, Birmingham is 50th in metro areas in the U.S., and falls in between Sri Lanka and the Dominican Republic when compared to countries...
http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/2...report.pdf

I don't know what will convince all these little fiefdoms that working together would help them all, but the biggest thing dragging down the Birmingham Metro area is that lack of cooperation.

Each little city/town/village has to have it's own government, police department, fire department, school board, water authority, sewer department, etc. etc. and they all pay for layers and layers of duplication. How many Police Chiefs does the Birmingham area need, to take a single for instance?

Add in that not only do they not cooperate and all work together to make things better for Birmingham and the surrounding counties, but they actively backstab and block each other.

If such a mess of a government then tries to compete with a Chattanooga, Mobile, Huntsville that is not such a heap of dysfunction, it is so gimped before the start that it loses time after time.

I have no clue how to break that cycle.

It starts with the head. All the little fiefdoms have to want what Birmingham has, and must want to be on board. Birmingham has been such a train wreck for so long that it will take a couple of generations before thigs will get a chance to change. It is going to take a very popular figure to be mayor and then the popular mayor will have to be very lucky, and around for several terms.

i.e. Charles Barkley gets elected and soon after, Nike announces they are moving all operations, 50,000 jobs averaging $60k a year to Birmingham and only Birmingham residents can apply for the first round of hiring.

UAB is in itself a microcosm of the metro problem. The wage & hour workers generally live in the central city environs while its professional staff and administration generally lives over the mountain or in other suburban areas. It makes it difficult to reconcile a problem when you are a reflection of it yourself.

What happened to the City Schools when a large part of its tax base moved out is now happening to the Jeffco system as its more prosperous communities form their own autonomous independent school systems leaving the county schools with the economic equivalent of what was left in B'ham. If Irondale and Gardendale are joined by a few more, what schools will be left? That will make 13 independent school districts in one county and counting....

(How much longer Shelby County will be able to hold onto its financially blessed communities is beginning to be questioned)

And Phil, remember that until almost 1970, most present citizens in B'ham were not allowed to vote, much less run for a political office. Their school's needs had been ignored for decades by the old line administration so getting a good education was a tremendous challenge even for the most enterprising students. When you consider how long the educated colonists took to get the American government running smoothly after 1783, it is not so surprising that the city has had to work through some problems left to it by earlier leaders.

When I was moved into Hudson ES in 1970 it had one principal, one office secretary, one shared Special Ed teacher, one shared Guidance Counselor, 56 teachers (half substitutes) and 2,100 students in 6 sections of each of 8 grades with about 50 per class. That was a common situation for the "Negro Schools" as they were called in those days which were only 40 years ago.