(03-06-2014 04:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:53 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 12:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 11:05 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  XLance, Vanderbilt fits the ACC like a glove, especially if FSU were to be the swap. Let's make the trade. We'll even send a shipment of Goo Goo Clusters to the ACC offices.

Touche! Vandy for F.S.U. and then we pick up Texas and Oklahoma and call it quits. That works wonderfully to 16. Then my second choice would be Vandy for F.S.U. and we pick up Oklahoma and Kansas and call it quits. It simplifies everything really.

I can foresee one problem however. Once F.S.U. was in the SEC it wouldn't take those Clemson administrators very long to feel like they had made the mistake of a lifetime.

Twice in my career Banks that my company did business with split when the dashing execuitive VP siphoned off some of the best, most aggressive, and youngest employees to go and start up other banks. Both ended up being successful. The young folks that were selected to move to the new venture for the most part were successful and made a lot of money. BUT......many of the employees that were not selected or decided not to move to the new venture with the dashing execuitive VP were even MORE successful. You see when all of those talented folks left, it created a management vacuum in the older established bank. The folks that were either left behind or chose to stay behind ended up in much better positions than their counterparts and actually made more money too. Such will be the case with Clemson. They won't feel that they have made a mistake because they will assend back to the top of the ACC football heap where they were before Florida State moved them out of their rightful spot. Clemson will again be #1 in a good, not great football conference and that will be just fine with the Tigers. The vacuum at the top with Florida State's departure would allow Clemson to again be "top dog" in ACC football, a spot they lost and would love to get back.
Believe me there would be very few tears in Tigertown after they realized what had really happened.

Yes, I had considered that too. There would be a great risk in moving to a football rich conference in which they might not even regain the top position in their own state, let alone the conference.

Good illustration XLance. I think it would apply to Kentucky leaving the SEC where they are king to make a move to a talent rich ACC.

The upside that would come from such a move would be simply from added content value, but if that came at the price of alienating your fan base with regular .500 seasons instead of regular 10 win seasons then it wouldn't be worth it.

I don't think Clemson would be the only one to benefit by F.S.U.'s departure. The playing field would become much more level encouraging other schools to try to step up their level of competition. North Carolina, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech and even Virginia and Pitt fans might get more solidly behind trying to knock Clemson off of their perch (a feat that would seemingly be much more attainable than knocking F.S.U. off of theirs). Leveling the competitiveness of the conference would serve as a stimulus for competition.

Look at what has happened in the Big 12. As Texas and Oklahoma recruiting has sagged Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Kansas State have all stepped up their game. Why? It finally looked like the efforts would pay off, and they have.

By the way I take it that you didn't disagree with me about Miami. They will eventually degrade to the extent that they become the ACC equivalent of West Virginia in the Big 12. They will be a good school that remains competitive, but nowhere near like they were at their peak, but very expensive to travel to for any sport. Central Florida will surpass them within a decade, maybe two. Of all of the growth prospects out there I like UCF. The number of alumni, the vacation destination of their home town, the access they provide to a solid recruiting area, the average age of the people in their area, all surpass the potential of either Miami, or South Florida. I could see them easily passing Florida State in prominence in half a century and eventually challenging Florida. Mid Florida has so much more to offer than the Panhandle or the Keys.

Re: Miami
First let me say that Miami is in the ACC for the long haul. At this point Miami would be foolish to look anywhere else (besides why would they want to leave all of the other privates)?
I think that Miami can be salvaged, but it will take investment (that so far they have been unwilling to do). Miami has terrible facilities...terrible (except for their new basketball arena). If they would follow UCF's example and build an on campus football stadium that would seat between 32,000 (Wake Forest size) and 40,000 (UCF size) along with the other ancillary facilities they could again command major media attention. Maybe not to their glorious past, but they may come close. BTW, Miami does not have to become the Miami of old to be of great benefit to the ACC.
I agree that UCF has great potential in central Florida, and may be a good partner for Florida in several years. The school is already too big to fit the ACC profile (as is USF).
You're still going to have to throw the chickens in with Vandy, if for no other reason than to keep the Tigers happy, besides your getting Florida State. And then with Notre Dame we are at 16 and done.
I'm thinking that the SEC's best play might just be for Texas and Kansas (instead of Oklahoma) at that point. You really don't need another top football program, but you could use the academic cache and the hoops to finally give Kentucky some conference competition. My respects to the Florida fans, I know they have good hoops and have a couple of NCAA championships, but it is really hard to think of Florida as a basketball school....don't you think?
I realize that this leaves you at 15 and I know the SEC has an aversion to private schools (religious ones at that) otherwise I would suggest Baylor as your #16. So in that case, I'm going with Texas Tech.

That's an interesting approach and not without merit from an SEC perspective. Not taking Oklahoma solves the Oklahoma State issue. And quite frankly I don't have anything against Baylor. It's just that if the SEC did land Texas then Baylor becomes unessential. Texas Tech probably would deliver more at that point. The SEC could certainly do far worse than nailing down Florida and Texas. The cultural fit would be better as well. Taking in Kansas would be solid and would make Missouri happy. And while it works out well for our two conferences it leaves the rest of the Big 12 in a pickle to get into other conferences. So we would be talking post GOR.

But, Vanderbilt is worth more than F.S.U., just not from a television perspective. And Baylor might be considered a requirement if we lost Vanderbilt. If you don't have at least one private school in your conference then you can't skirt full disclosure issues.

I didn't think about full disclosure issues, JR. Good point.

I wish this board was in charge of real life realignment. It would be complete after a night over ribs and beer.

(03-06-2014 04:50 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I didn't think about full disclosure issues, JR. Good point.

I wish this board was in charge of real life realignment. It would be complete after a night over ribs and beer.

Except that Vanderbilt fans might be ticked to know that their schools fate was decided by a couple of retirees chatting over ribs and beer.

(03-06-2014 04:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:50 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I didn't think about full disclosure issues, JR. Good point.

I wish this board was in charge of real life realignment. It would be complete after a night over ribs and beer.

Except that Vanderbilt fans might be ticked to know that their schools fate was decided by a couple of retirees chatting over ribs and beer.

Bigger decisions have been made with less grandeur, I'm sure.

I'm sorry, but I left out the West Virginia swicheroo. Yep!, West Virginia.
West Virginia could be a substitute for Texas Tech for the SEC. Matter of fact now that I think about it I think that West Virginia would be a better choice for the SEC than Texas Tech.
West Virginia could also be a substitute for South Carolina in the ACC. West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again and provide a good blend of football and basketball.
So what do you think? If West Virginia has to go to either, where is the better fit? West Virginia instead of Texas Tech in the SEC, or West Virginia instead of South Carolina in the ACC?

(03-06-2014 06:32 PM)XLance Wrote:  I'm sorry, but I left out the West Virginia swicheroo. Yep!, West Virginia.
West Virginia could be a substitute for Texas Tech for the SEC. Matter of fact now that I think about it I think that West Virginia would be a better choice for the SEC than Texas Tech.
West Virginia could also be a substitute for South Carolina in the ACC. West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again and provide a good blend of football and basketball.
So what do you think? If West Virginia has to go to either, where is the better fit? West Virginia instead of Texas Tech in the SEC, or West Virginia instead of South Carolina in the ACC?

West Virginia to the ACC instead of South Carolina. Their arch rival is Pitt, and old conference mates of Syracuse and Boston College would be fine as well, and as you said already they reconnect the broken footprint.

So the ACC would become the conference it is today plus West Virginia, plus Vanderbilt (which is now needed at 17th academically to balance out W.V.U. at 161st), minus F.S.U. and with N.D. joining in full.

The SEC is the conference it is today plus Florida State, Texas and Kansas minus Vanderbilt.

I would take that. But it might need to be tweaked to get the Big 10 on board. Let Kansas and Oklahoma go to the Big 10.

Then the SEC can take Florida State, Texas, and Oklahoma State.

If the PAC wants to expand they have Texas Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State and Texas Christian with which to do it.

(03-06-2014 05:20 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:50 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I didn't think about full disclosure issues, JR. Good point.

I wish this board was in charge of real life realignment. It would be complete after a night over ribs and beer.

Except that Vanderbilt fans might be ticked to know that their schools fate was decided by a couple of retirees chatting over ribs and beer.

Bigger decisions have been made with less grandeur, I'm sure.

The PAC 16 almost happened due to Dodds and Scott playing a round of golf and the TCU AD got Dodds (Texas) B12 membership vote over beers. So you are definitely right.

(03-06-2014 04:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:53 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 12:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Touche! Vandy for F.S.U. and then we pick up Texas and Oklahoma and call it quits. That works wonderfully to 16. Then my second choice would be Vandy for F.S.U. and we pick up Oklahoma and Kansas and call it quits. It simplifies everything really.

I can foresee one problem however. Once F.S.U. was in the SEC it wouldn't take those Clemson administrators very long to feel like they had made the mistake of a lifetime.

Twice in my career Banks that my company did business with split when the dashing execuitive VP siphoned off some of the best, most aggressive, and youngest employees to go and start up other banks. Both ended up being successful. The young folks that were selected to move to the new venture for the most part were successful and made a lot of money. BUT......many of the employees that were not selected or decided not to move to the new venture with the dashing execuitive VP were even MORE successful. You see when all of those talented folks left, it created a management vacuum in the older established bank. The folks that were either left behind or chose to stay behind ended up in much better positions than their counterparts and actually made more money too. Such will be the case with Clemson. They won't feel that they have made a mistake because they will assend back to the top of the ACC football heap where they were before Florida State moved them out of their rightful spot. Clemson will again be #1 in a good, not great football conference and that will be just fine with the Tigers. The vacuum at the top with Florida State's departure would allow Clemson to again be "top dog" in ACC football, a spot they lost and would love to get back.
Believe me there would be very few tears in Tigertown after they realized what had really happened.

Yes, I had considered that too. There would be a great risk in moving to a football rich conference in which they might not even regain the top position in their own state, let alone the conference.

Good illustration XLance. I think it would apply to Kentucky leaving the SEC where they are king to make a move to a talent rich ACC.

The upside that would come from such a move would be simply from added content value, but if that came at the price of alienating your fan base with regular .500 seasons instead of regular 10 win seasons then it wouldn't be worth it.

I don't think Clemson would be the only one to benefit by F.S.U.'s departure. The playing field would become much more level encouraging other schools to try to step up their level of competition. North Carolina, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech and even Virginia and Pitt fans might get more solidly behind trying to knock Clemson off of their perch (a feat that would seemingly be much more attainable than knocking F.S.U. off of theirs). Leveling the competitiveness of the conference would serve as a stimulus for competition.

Look at what has happened in the Big 12. As Texas and Oklahoma recruiting has sagged Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Kansas State have all stepped up their game. Why? It finally looked like the efforts would pay off, and they have.

By the way I take it that you didn't disagree with me about Miami. They will eventually degrade to the extent that they become the ACC equivalent of West Virginia in the Big 12. They will be a good school that remains competitive, but nowhere near like they were at their peak, but very expensive to travel to for any sport. Central Florida will surpass them within a decade, maybe two. Of all of the growth prospects out there I like UCF. The number of alumni, the vacation destination of their home town, the access they provide to a solid recruiting area, the average age of the people in their area, all surpass the potential of either Miami, or South Florida. I could see them easily passing Florida State in prominence in half a century and eventually challenging Florida. Mid Florida has so much more to offer than the Panhandle or the Keys.

Re: Miami
First let me say that Miami is in the ACC for the long haul. At this point Miami would be foolish to look anywhere else (besides why would they want to leave all of the other privates)?
I think that Miami can be salvaged, but it will take investment (that so far they have been unwilling to do). Miami has terrible facilities...terrible (except for their new basketball arena). If they would follow UCF's example and build an on campus football stadium that would seat between 32,000 (Wake Forest size) and 40,000 (UCF size) along with the other ancillary facilities they could again command major media attention. Maybe not to their glorious past, but they may come close. BTW, Miami does not have to become the Miami of old to be of great benefit to the ACC.
I agree that UCF has great potential in central Florida, and may be a good partner for Florida in several years. The school is already too big to fit the ACC profile (as is USF).
You're still going to have to throw the chickens in with Vandy, if for no other reason than to keep the Tigers happy, besides your getting Florida State. And then with Notre Dame we are at 16 and done.
I'm thinking that the SEC's best play might just be for Texas and Kansas (instead of Oklahoma) at that point. You really don't need another top football program, but you could use the academic cache and the hoops to finally give Kentucky some conference competition. My respects to the Florida fans, I know they have good hoops and have a couple of NCAA championships, but it is really hard to think of Florida as a basketball school....don't you think?
I realize that this leaves you at 15 and I know the SEC has an aversion to private schools (religious ones at that) otherwise I would suggest Baylor as your #16. So in that case, I'm going with Texas Tech.

That's an interesting approach and not without merit from an SEC perspective. Not taking Oklahoma solves the Oklahoma State issue. And quite frankly I don't have anything against Baylor. It's just that if the SEC did land Texas then Baylor becomes unessential. Texas Tech probably would deliver more at that point. The SEC could certainly do far worse than nailing down Florida and Texas. The cultural fit would be better as well. Taking in Kansas would be solid and would make Missouri happy. And while it works out well for our two conferences it leaves the rest of the Big 12 in a pickle to get into other conferences. So we would be talking post GOR.

But, Vanderbilt is worth more than F.S.U., just not from a television perspective. And Baylor might be considered a requirement if we lost Vanderbilt. If you don't have at least one private school in your conference then you can't skirt full disclosure issues.

There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR, how much did you say the Brooklyn Bridge was selling for?

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 01:53 PM)XLance Wrote:  Twice in my career Banks that my company did business with split when the dashing execuitive VP siphoned off some of the best, most aggressive, and youngest employees to go and start up other banks. Both ended up being successful. The young folks that were selected to move to the new venture for the most part were successful and made a lot of money. BUT......many of the employees that were not selected or decided not to move to the new venture with the dashing execuitive VP were even MORE successful. You see when all of those talented folks left, it created a management vacuum in the older established bank. The folks that were either left behind or chose to stay behind ended up in much better positions than their counterparts and actually made more money too. Such will be the case with Clemson. They won't feel that they have made a mistake because they will assend back to the top of the ACC football heap where they were before Florida State moved them out of their rightful spot. Clemson will again be #1 in a good, not great football conference and that will be just fine with the Tigers. The vacuum at the top with Florida State's departure would allow Clemson to again be "top dog" in ACC football, a spot they lost and would love to get back.
Believe me there would be very few tears in Tigertown after they realized what had really happened.

Yes, I had considered that too. There would be a great risk in moving to a football rich conference in which they might not even regain the top position in their own state, let alone the conference.

Good illustration XLance. I think it would apply to Kentucky leaving the SEC where they are king to make a move to a talent rich ACC.

The upside that would come from such a move would be simply from added content value, but if that came at the price of alienating your fan base with regular .500 seasons instead of regular 10 win seasons then it wouldn't be worth it.

I don't think Clemson would be the only one to benefit by F.S.U.'s departure. The playing field would become much more level encouraging other schools to try to step up their level of competition. North Carolina, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech and even Virginia and Pitt fans might get more solidly behind trying to knock Clemson off of their perch (a feat that would seemingly be much more attainable than knocking F.S.U. off of theirs). Leveling the competitiveness of the conference would serve as a stimulus for competition.

Look at what has happened in the Big 12. As Texas and Oklahoma recruiting has sagged Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Kansas State have all stepped up their game. Why? It finally looked like the efforts would pay off, and they have.

By the way I take it that you didn't disagree with me about Miami. They will eventually degrade to the extent that they become the ACC equivalent of West Virginia in the Big 12. They will be a good school that remains competitive, but nowhere near like they were at their peak, but very expensive to travel to for any sport. Central Florida will surpass them within a decade, maybe two. Of all of the growth prospects out there I like UCF. The number of alumni, the vacation destination of their home town, the access they provide to a solid recruiting area, the average age of the people in their area, all surpass the potential of either Miami, or South Florida. I could see them easily passing Florida State in prominence in half a century and eventually challenging Florida. Mid Florida has so much more to offer than the Panhandle or the Keys.

Re: Miami
First let me say that Miami is in the ACC for the long haul. At this point Miami would be foolish to look anywhere else (besides why would they want to leave all of the other privates)?
I think that Miami can be salvaged, but it will take investment (that so far they have been unwilling to do). Miami has terrible facilities...terrible (except for their new basketball arena). If they would follow UCF's example and build an on campus football stadium that would seat between 32,000 (Wake Forest size) and 40,000 (UCF size) along with the other ancillary facilities they could again command major media attention. Maybe not to their glorious past, but they may come close. BTW, Miami does not have to become the Miami of old to be of great benefit to the ACC.
I agree that UCF has great potential in central Florida, and may be a good partner for Florida in several years. The school is already too big to fit the ACC profile (as is USF).
You're still going to have to throw the chickens in with Vandy, if for no other reason than to keep the Tigers happy, besides your getting Florida State. And then with Notre Dame we are at 16 and done.
I'm thinking that the SEC's best play might just be for Texas and Kansas (instead of Oklahoma) at that point. You really don't need another top football program, but you could use the academic cache and the hoops to finally give Kentucky some conference competition. My respects to the Florida fans, I know they have good hoops and have a couple of NCAA championships, but it is really hard to think of Florida as a basketball school....don't you think?
I realize that this leaves you at 15 and I know the SEC has an aversion to private schools (religious ones at that) otherwise I would suggest Baylor as your #16. So in that case, I'm going with Texas Tech.

That's an interesting approach and not without merit from an SEC perspective. Not taking Oklahoma solves the Oklahoma State issue. And quite frankly I don't have anything against Baylor. It's just that if the SEC did land Texas then Baylor becomes unessential. Texas Tech probably would deliver more at that point. The SEC could certainly do far worse than nailing down Florida and Texas. The cultural fit would be better as well. Taking in Kansas would be solid and would make Missouri happy. And while it works out well for our two conferences it leaves the rest of the Big 12 in a pickle to get into other conferences. So we would be talking post GOR.

But, Vanderbilt is worth more than F.S.U., just not from a television perspective. And Baylor might be considered a requirement if we lost Vanderbilt. If you don't have at least one private school in your conference then you can't skirt full disclosure issues.

There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR did you used to sell used cars?

Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

(03-05-2014 08:00 PM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Terry my theory is that if ND ever joins a conference it will be one they help form. I think that it is possible Texas and ND form their own conference from schools in the ACC and B12, plus possibly some from outside it. They would wield more power that way than they ever could joining an existing conference and the same is true for Texas. Dodds is on record on video saying that they had discussions about doing this with ND around 2010. I think it would be the only way to sell losing FB independence to the ND fan base. What do you think? How would that go over with Irish alums and fans?

If you recall, I listed a ten school "ideal conference" for ND. It looked like this:

ND
Navy (Traditional/Fed Ex Field)
Southern Cal (Traditional/West Coast)
Stanford (Traditional/Academics/West Coast)
Arizona State (Southwest)
Texas (Southwest)
Florida State (Florida/Southeast)
Miami (Florida/Southeast)
Pitt (Traditional/Northeast/Heinz Field)
Boston College (Traditional/only other Catholic FBS school/Northeast)



It would have to be a national conference with games/access/exposure in all regions of the country to be palatable at all to ND fans.

It would have to include some traditional rivals like Navy and Pitt.

It would have to have some "traditional powers" like Texas and Southern Cal.

Even so, I cannot stress enough (I know that I sound like a broken record), that there would be a massive, violent, ugly revolt by ND alumni and fans at any suggestion that ND football join any conference.

It would have to be a "gun to the head" deal, like a conference champs only playoff access to make it barely, angrily, sullenly "acceptable" to ND people, at all.

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 02:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Yes, I had considered that too. There would be a great risk in moving to a football rich conference in which they might not even regain the top position in their own state, let alone the conference.

Good illustration XLance. I think it would apply to Kentucky leaving the SEC where they are king to make a move to a talent rich ACC.

The upside that would come from such a move would be simply from added content value, but if that came at the price of alienating your fan base with regular .500 seasons instead of regular 10 win seasons then it wouldn't be worth it.

I don't think Clemson would be the only one to benefit by F.S.U.'s departure. The playing field would become much more level encouraging other schools to try to step up their level of competition. North Carolina, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech and even Virginia and Pitt fans might get more solidly behind trying to knock Clemson off of their perch (a feat that would seemingly be much more attainable than knocking F.S.U. off of theirs). Leveling the competitiveness of the conference would serve as a stimulus for competition.

Look at what has happened in the Big 12. As Texas and Oklahoma recruiting has sagged Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Kansas State have all stepped up their game. Why? It finally looked like the efforts would pay off, and they have.

By the way I take it that you didn't disagree with me about Miami. They will eventually degrade to the extent that they become the ACC equivalent of West Virginia in the Big 12. They will be a good school that remains competitive, but nowhere near like they were at their peak, but very expensive to travel to for any sport. Central Florida will surpass them within a decade, maybe two. Of all of the growth prospects out there I like UCF. The number of alumni, the vacation destination of their home town, the access they provide to a solid recruiting area, the average age of the people in their area, all surpass the potential of either Miami, or South Florida. I could see them easily passing Florida State in prominence in half a century and eventually challenging Florida. Mid Florida has so much more to offer than the Panhandle or the Keys.

Re: Miami
First let me say that Miami is in the ACC for the long haul. At this point Miami would be foolish to look anywhere else (besides why would they want to leave all of the other privates)?
I think that Miami can be salvaged, but it will take investment (that so far they have been unwilling to do). Miami has terrible facilities...terrible (except for their new basketball arena). If they would follow UCF's example and build an on campus football stadium that would seat between 32,000 (Wake Forest size) and 40,000 (UCF size) along with the other ancillary facilities they could again command major media attention. Maybe not to their glorious past, but they may come close. BTW, Miami does not have to become the Miami of old to be of great benefit to the ACC.
I agree that UCF has great potential in central Florida, and may be a good partner for Florida in several years. The school is already too big to fit the ACC profile (as is USF).
You're still going to have to throw the chickens in with Vandy, if for no other reason than to keep the Tigers happy, besides your getting Florida State. And then with Notre Dame we are at 16 and done.
I'm thinking that the SEC's best play might just be for Texas and Kansas (instead of Oklahoma) at that point. You really don't need another top football program, but you could use the academic cache and the hoops to finally give Kentucky some conference competition. My respects to the Florida fans, I know they have good hoops and have a couple of NCAA championships, but it is really hard to think of Florida as a basketball school....don't you think?
I realize that this leaves you at 15 and I know the SEC has an aversion to private schools (religious ones at that) otherwise I would suggest Baylor as your #16. So in that case, I'm going with Texas Tech.

That's an interesting approach and not without merit from an SEC perspective. Not taking Oklahoma solves the Oklahoma State issue. And quite frankly I don't have anything against Baylor. It's just that if the SEC did land Texas then Baylor becomes unessential. Texas Tech probably would deliver more at that point. The SEC could certainly do far worse than nailing down Florida and Texas. The cultural fit would be better as well. Taking in Kansas would be solid and would make Missouri happy. And while it works out well for our two conferences it leaves the rest of the Big 12 in a pickle to get into other conferences. So we would be talking post GOR.

But, Vanderbilt is worth more than F.S.U., just not from a television perspective. And Baylor might be considered a requirement if we lost Vanderbilt. If you don't have at least one private school in your conference then you can't skirt full disclosure issues.

There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR did you used to sell used cars?

Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  Re: Miami
First let me say that Miami is in the ACC for the long haul. At this point Miami would be foolish to look anywhere else (besides why would they want to leave all of the other privates)?
I think that Miami can be salvaged, but it will take investment (that so far they have been unwilling to do). Miami has terrible facilities...terrible (except for their new basketball arena). If they would follow UCF's example and build an on campus football stadium that would seat between 32,000 (Wake Forest size) and 40,000 (UCF size) along with the other ancillary facilities they could again command major media attention. Maybe not to their glorious past, but they may come close. BTW, Miami does not have to become the Miami of old to be of great benefit to the ACC.
I agree that UCF has great potential in central Florida, and may be a good partner for Florida in several years. The school is already too big to fit the ACC profile (as is USF).
You're still going to have to throw the chickens in with Vandy, if for no other reason than to keep the Tigers happy, besides your getting Florida State. And then with Notre Dame we are at 16 and done.
I'm thinking that the SEC's best play might just be for Texas and Kansas (instead of Oklahoma) at that point. You really don't need another top football program, but you could use the academic cache and the hoops to finally give Kentucky some conference competition. My respects to the Florida fans, I know they have good hoops and have a couple of NCAA championships, but it is really hard to think of Florida as a basketball school....don't you think?
I realize that this leaves you at 15 and I know the SEC has an aversion to private schools (religious ones at that) otherwise I would suggest Baylor as your #16. So in that case, I'm going with Texas Tech.

That's an interesting approach and not without merit from an SEC perspective. Not taking Oklahoma solves the Oklahoma State issue. And quite frankly I don't have anything against Baylor. It's just that if the SEC did land Texas then Baylor becomes unessential. Texas Tech probably would deliver more at that point. The SEC could certainly do far worse than nailing down Florida and Texas. The cultural fit would be better as well. Taking in Kansas would be solid and would make Missouri happy. And while it works out well for our two conferences it leaves the rest of the Big 12 in a pickle to get into other conferences. So we would be talking post GOR.

But, Vanderbilt is worth more than F.S.U., just not from a television perspective. And Baylor might be considered a requirement if we lost Vanderbilt. If you don't have at least one private school in your conference then you can't skirt full disclosure issues.

There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR did you used to sell used cars?

Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  That's an interesting approach and not without merit from an SEC perspective. Not taking Oklahoma solves the Oklahoma State issue. And quite frankly I don't have anything against Baylor. It's just that if the SEC did land Texas then Baylor becomes unessential. Texas Tech probably would deliver more at that point. The SEC could certainly do far worse than nailing down Florida and Texas. The cultural fit would be better as well. Taking in Kansas would be solid and would make Missouri happy. And while it works out well for our two conferences it leaves the rest of the Big 12 in a pickle to get into other conferences. So we would be talking post GOR.

But, Vanderbilt is worth more than F.S.U., just not from a television perspective. And Baylor might be considered a requirement if we lost Vanderbilt. If you don't have at least one private school in your conference then you can't skirt full disclosure issues.

There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR did you used to sell used cars?

Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

(03-07-2014 11:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR did you used to sell used cars?

Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

Not sure Texas would be excited about the proposed pod. They also might lose the OU game which would suck for both schools.

(03-07-2014 11:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  There are those that keep saying that football drives the bus. If that is so then how in the world could Vanderbilt be worth more than Florida State? JR did you used to sell used cars?

Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

Touche, JR. I realize Kentucky's place in the pecking order of things. I said that the ACC should offer a king's ransom for Auburn. Would they or should they go? Nope, but the offer should still be made. The ACC should see Auburn the same way that the SEC saw Texas A&M; they are a more than ready made package. You know how offers go... they recipient receives nothing but benefits. The offer can be used as ammo for their current situation (in this case, a conference), or they can take the offer if the current situation is not improved to their liking.

Vandy and Ole Miss are intriguing for the reasons you laid out. If the ACC could put together a financial and "favors" package that was anywhere near what they receive in the SEC, I think both schools would flourish in the ACC. If you had to choose a better overall SEC fit between Ole Miss and Mississippi State, I do believe that State would win out. In terms of brand and function, Ole Miss is a cocktail and dessert, but Mississippi State is meat and potatoes. The same designation could be made among the Virginia and North Carolina public schools, by the way.

(03-07-2014 01:24 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

Touche, JR. I realize Kentucky's place in the pecking order of things. I said that the ACC should offer a king's ransom for Auburn. Would they or should they go? Nope, but the offer should still be made. The ACC should see Auburn the same way that the SEC saw Texas A&M; they are a more than ready made package from a state with two powerhouses that brings all positives and no negatives. You know how offers go... the recipient receives only benefits. The offer can be used as ammo to improve their current situation (in this case, a conference), or they can take the offer if the current situation is not improved to their liking.

Vandy and Ole Miss are intriguing for the reasons you laid out. If the ACC could put together a financial and "favors" package that was anywhere near what they receive in the SEC, I think both schools would flourish in the ACC. If you had to choose a better overall SEC fit between Ole Miss and Mississippi State, I do believe that State would win out. In terms of brand and function, Ole Miss is a cocktail and dessert, and Mississippi State is meat and potatoes. The same designation could be made among the Virginia and North Carolina public schools, by the way.

(03-07-2014 01:26 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:24 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

Touche, JR. I realize Kentucky's place in the pecking order of things. I said that the ACC should offer a king's ransom for Auburn. Would they or should they go? Nope, but the offer should still be made. The ACC should see Auburn the same way that the SEC saw Texas A&M; they are a more than ready made package from a state with two powerhouses that brings all positives and no negatives. You know how offers go... the recipient receives only benefits. The offer can be used as ammo to improve their current situation (in this case, a conference), or they can take the offer if the current situation is not improved to their liking.

Vandy and Ole Miss are intriguing for the reasons you laid out. If the ACC could put together a financial and "favors" package that was anywhere near what they receive in the SEC, I think both schools would flourish in the ACC. If you had to choose a better overall SEC fit between Ole Miss and Mississippi State, I do believe that State would win out. In terms of brand and function, Ole Miss is a cocktail and dessert, and Mississippi State is meat and potatoes. The same designation could be made among the Virginia and North Carolina public schools, by the way.

Don't feel badly about your suggestion, it is certainly something that more than a few Auburn folks have considered. Our oldest rival is Georgia Tech, Auburn and Florida State have a short history of great games and there is much potential there for a great rivalry, and our games with Clemson go back to the Southern Conference days. If we could keep Georgia and Alabama on the schedule it could be a possibility with 1 gigantic exception and a second almost as large.

1. Money. The potential of the SEC is tremendous. The ACC may yet be on someone's menu. Perhaps Auburn can gain those games with Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Clemson by simply waiting and that doesn't risk loss of revenue at all.

2. Recruiting. There is no way Auburn recruits as well outside of the SEC.

So those two are monster deal breakers.

Should the Big 10 ever make a successful multiple team raid on the ACC then I strongly believe that both Clemson and Florida State will be ours. Georgia Tech is another matter.

Another point to keep in mind BBB is that in the ACC neither Ole Miss nor Vanderbilt would have to commit the same level of resources to sports in order to be highly competitive. So there is a give and take with the income issue. If the ACC could stay within 5 million of the SEC then cutting your athletic budget by 15 or 20 million would not only net you money, but even provide the extra travel costs in the process. And actually Tulane would not be necessary as the foot of Mississippi is close enough to Texas to bring Baylor and U.T. on board. Now I'm being purely speculative but it could be worked either way. Let's say we swapped Vanderbilt and Ole Miss for a pair of redundant ACC schools. If both conferences wanted to go to 18 to end the Big 12 the ACC could boost themselves with Texas, Kansas State, Baylor, and West Virginia. The SEC could add Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State.

Texas, Baylor, Ole Miss, Florida State, Vanderbilt, and Kansas State form a division.
North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Miami, Duke and Wake Forest form a division.
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, and Virginia form a division.

While a hypothetical long shot something like it is not inconceivable.

Then your SEC looks like this:
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Alabama, Kentucky, Louisiana State, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Texas A&M
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

All good points, JR. Vandy has the money to stay within a stone's throw of the rest of the SEC, but I know they would rather spend it elsewhere. It is funny how it works based on what I hear in town. The major donors to Vanderbilt trust the administration a lot, even to the extent that they just ask "What do you need?". Recently, they needed money for football, and WHAM!, huge stadium upgrades, new locker room, new indoor practice field. Of course, many Vandy donors have their pet projects that they like to help fund, but for the most part, they go with what the administration suggests. If Vandy said they don't need another dime for athletics, I don't think anyone there would insist on allocating their donation to athletes just because (like often happens at the powerhouse public schools).

That last hypothetical SEC looks awful pretty, JR.

(03-07-2014 01:24 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Florida State was hurting from their athletic budget and needed extra help from the ACC just a year ago. Vanderbilt has over a 1 billion dollar research endowment in addition to other grants. VU is worth more than FSU. I've never sold used cars and I only drive new ones that I keep until they die and I pay cash for them so I don't lose money on interest. I was raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. Socialists are raised with the philosophy of what is mine is mine and what is yours is negotiable. Banks on the other hand now operate under the philosophy of what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours too.
You did say that you had been a banker right? Well then you know a private school with over a Billion dollar endowment is worth more than a state one that is arbitrarily funded by state politicians. But I will confess that a billion isn't nearly what it used to be.

Florida State indeed wa in a cash crunch.
They had promised Jimbo enough money to compete with the SEC and it started to suck funds away from other sports at FSU. The athletic department was even having to have fund raising events to be able to make mortgage payments for their baseball stadium upgrade.
FSU has the same problem as Carolina, too many sports to be able to allocate the amount of money necessary to compete with SEC teams in football.
No, not a banker, my company has done business with multiple banks.
Speaking is ..isms (socialism, communism, etc.) when all of the P5 schools earn the same amounts on their media contracts, then Vanderbilt might be worth the same amount as Florida State, but until then is still 2 for 1 ('lil carolina AND Vanderbilt for Florida State). We all know that the chickens aren't worth much and when Spurrier retires, they will sink back to their customary level.

XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

Touche, JR. I realize Kentucky's place in the pecking order of things. I said that the ACC should offer a king's ransom for Auburn. Would they or should they go? Nope, but the offer should still be made. The ACC should see Auburn the same way that the SEC saw Texas A&M; they are a more than ready made package. You know how offers go... they recipient receives nothing but benefits. The offer can be used as ammo for their current situation (in this case, a conference), or they can take the offer if the current situation is not improved to their liking.

Vandy and Ole Miss are intriguing for the reasons you laid out. If the ACC could put together a financial and "favors" package that was anywhere near what they receive in the SEC, I think both schools would flourish in the ACC. If you had to choose a better overall SEC fit between Ole Miss and Mississippi State, I do believe that State would win out. In terms of brand and function, Ole Miss is a cocktail and dessert, but Mississippi State is meat and potatoes. The same designation could be made among the Virginia and North Carolina public schools, by the way.

Cocktail and dessert?........we're looking for wine & cheese!

(03-07-2014 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:26 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:24 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 09:50 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  XLance, instead of wanting South Carolina, the ACC should set its sights on a bigger target. First, I would still try to woo Vanderbilt for all the reasons already stated. I would keep Florida State, as well. My next move would be to make whatever deal it takes to claim a contiguous state school that is still touching the Atlantic and would instantly be the top revenue and football attendance school in the ACC. They would also have the best historical (and recent) football pedigree in the conference. They are about the same in overall research capabilities and functions as Syracuse and better than Clemson. They will keep their in-state annual game at the end of the year as yet another awesome SEC/ACC rival matchup, and you will work the ACC schedule around them so they may play Georgia and Florida as often as they wish. Work out a deal that, despite what the ACC pays out, they will always be given a supplementary payment by the ACC that will bring them to equal plus $1 whatever the SEC pays to its members.

With JR leading this thread, I do not even want to utter the name, but you know who I am talking about. Offer a king's ransom, knowing that the return on investment will be more than just monetarily profitable. What's the worst they can say? If the ACC is serious about staking its flag in the Southeast, adding this school would do it, especially in addition to Vanderbilt.

Your absolutely right BBB. The ACC should let Louisville join the Big 12 and they should add Kentucky. Keeping Florida and Georgia on their schedule should be important to the Cats.

But seriously if you sacrifice Vanderbilt, why not sacrifice Ole Miss as well. I doubt the SEC would want to give up a perennial top 10 earner in Auburn. Furthermore the annual television games of interest Auburn/A&M, Auburn/LSU, Auburn/Georgia, Auburn/Alabama, and until the motorcycle ride Auburn/Arkansas, all annually made CBS or a top ESPN evening time slot. Besides we are the largest University in the State of Auburama.

Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Texas. There is your contiguous movement to the Longhorns. There is your Western pod for the ACC. Then the SEC could pick up two from the ACC and add Oklahoma and Kansas. So the trade would be Ole Miss and Vanderbilt (both close together) and not too remote from Tulane for N.C. State and Virginia Tech. Nothing would do more for Ole Miss football than playing a predominant ACC schedule. Then the Egg bowl becomes ACC/SEC and Vandy/Tennessee becomes ACC/SEC. Then the ACC has the top school in the nation and a ready made network to boot.

Touche, JR. I realize Kentucky's place in the pecking order of things. I said that the ACC should offer a king's ransom for Auburn. Would they or should they go? Nope, but the offer should still be made. The ACC should see Auburn the same way that the SEC saw Texas A&M; they are a more than ready made package from a state with two powerhouses that brings all positives and no negatives. You know how offers go... the recipient receives only benefits. The offer can be used as ammo to improve their current situation (in this case, a conference), or they can take the offer if the current situation is not improved to their liking.

Vandy and Ole Miss are intriguing for the reasons you laid out. If the ACC could put together a financial and "favors" package that was anywhere near what they receive in the SEC, I think both schools would flourish in the ACC. If you had to choose a better overall SEC fit between Ole Miss and Mississippi State, I do believe that State would win out. In terms of brand and function, Ole Miss is a cocktail and dessert, and Mississippi State is meat and potatoes. The same designation could be made among the Virginia and North Carolina public schools, by the way.

Don't feel badly about your suggestion, it is certainly something that more than a few Auburn folks have considered. Our oldest rival is Georgia Tech, Auburn and Florida State have a short history of great games and there is much potential there for a great rivalry, and our games with Clemson go back to the Southern Conference days. If we could keep Georgia and Alabama on the schedule it could be a possibility with 1 gigantic exception and a second almost as large.

1. Money. The potential of the SEC is tremendous. The ACC may yet be on someone's menu. Perhaps Auburn can gain those games with Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Clemson by simply waiting and that doesn't risk loss of revenue at all.

2. Recruiting. There is no way Auburn recruits as well outside of the SEC.

So those two are monster deal breakers.

Should the Big 10 ever make a successful multiple team raid on the ACC then I strongly believe that both Clemson and Florida State will be ours. Georgia Tech is another matter.

Another point to keep in mind BBB is that in the ACC neither Ole Miss nor Vanderbilt would have to commit the same level of resources to sports in order to be highly competitive. So there is a give and take with the income issue. If the ACC could stay within 5 million of the SEC then cutting your athletic budget by 15 or 20 million would not only net you money, but even provide the extra travel costs in the process. And actually Tulane would not be necessary as the foot of Mississippi is close enough to Texas to bring Baylor and U.T. on board. Now I'm being purely speculative but it could be worked either way. Let's say we swapped Vanderbilt and Ole Miss for a pair of redundant ACC schools. If both conferences wanted to go to 18 to end the Big 12 the ACC could boost themselves with Texas, Kansas State, Baylor, and West Virginia. The SEC could add Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State.

Texas, Baylor, Ole Miss, Florida State, Vanderbilt, and Kansas State form a division.
North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Miami, Duke and Wake Forest form a division.
Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, and Virginia form a division.

While a hypothetical long shot something like it is not inconceivable.

Then your SEC looks like this:
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Alabama, Kentucky, Louisiana State, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Texas A&M
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

You had better hire some better recruiters JR. Florida State and Clemson seem to recruit just fine as members of the ACC. Well enough for Clemson to have beaten Auburn last year and for Florida State to have won the National Championship this season. If Auburn HAS to be in the SEC to be competitive in recruiting...............................