(02-14-2014 01:53 PM)At Ease Wrote:  If anyone in college football believed Bailiff was building a program, he wouldn't be at Rice. That kind of ability is in rather high demand and commands quite the $ premium. They seem able to recognize the last 1.5 seasons have been the fortunate confluence of a senior-laden roster and historically weak competition.

I'm not sure "program builders" are in the same demand they may have been 10 years ago. Nowadays there's more of a premium on a quick fix, i.e. a coordinator-HC that can bring in a proven system/scheme on either offense or defense and rather immediately improve things. Bailiff is not that, he's the program builder, delegate to coordinators type, and he's never really left Texas/New Mexico.

Making this move is a huge risk, and it wasn't even necessary. Extending Braun has proven to be a mistake, but at least Braun had a strong track record. Bailiff simply isn't in demand by other programs (or at least better programs), as Bailiff has proven that he takes a long time to get things together and still loses more often than he wins. Circa Nov. 2012, it seemed Bailiff was certain to lose his job with the 2008 season as the only bright spot on his resume. How quickly we forget 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, and the first half of 2012.

The move of promoting co-OCs with Lynch and demonstrated failure Edmondson only underscored the question marks that still surround Bailiff.

Many of Bailiff's perceived qualities are actually not rare or hard to find. Recruiting to Rice should not be hard, given the enviable geographic location in a recruiting goldfield and a degree that is considerably more desirable than any other non-P5 program. Good community relations and being a 'good guy' shouldn't be exceptional. Everyone knows that good PR is part of the D1 coaching skillset these days.

I tend to post some for about 5-6 months, then disappear for a year or so because I get so frustrated by the delusional and grumpy tone of this place that I remember why I quit reading in the first place.

I guess I'll see you in a year or two. This thread is just ridiculous.

(02-14-2014 03:50 PM)KingNayte Wrote:  I tend to post some for about 5-6 months, then disappear for a year or so because I get so frustrated by the delusional and grumpy tone of this place that I remember why I quit reading in the first place.

I guess I'll see you in a year or two. This thread is just ridiculous.

Seriously, don't leave. This board needs balance.

(02-14-2014 11:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The only big upside to this is if Bailiff has another 10 win season and some P5 school tries to lure him away. This would either help keep him here in that case, or increase the cost of the buyout.

And my position on this is that there are a lot worse things that can happen to us.

He's not getting hired away this year. For him to attract any interest next year would require another 10-win season. Quite frankly, if he were to win 10 again next year, with the number of losses this year, I would make the move to lock him in then. It would probably cost more then, but he would be more of a proved commodity then, too.

But if he gets an offer from a P5 school and wants to go, I'd rather he be there than here. If this program is at the point where he can get a P5 job, it will be at the point where it can attract a field of candidates from which a good one can be chosen. One problem we've had hiring coaches is that this has not been an attractive job. If we have back-to-back 10 win seasons, then it's an attractive job.

(02-14-2014 03:50 PM)KingNayte Wrote:  I tend to post some for about 5-6 months, then disappear for a year or so because I get so frustrated by the delusional and grumpy tone of this place that I remember why I quit reading in the first place.

I guess I'll see you in a year or two. This thread is just ridiculous.

You could offer a counter-perspective, vs the drama?

(02-14-2014 03:50 PM)KingNayte Wrote:  I tend to post some for about 5-6 months, then disappear for a year or so because I get so frustrated by the delusional and grumpy tone of this place that I remember why I quit reading in the first place.

I guess I'll see you in a year or two. This thread is just ridiculous.

I am continually amazed how worked up people get about what others write, especially when they then try to 'police' what others write. "I'm leaving, unless I hear a better tone on this, etc, etc..."

It's perfectly rational to be concerned about Bailiff's overall losing track record justifying a lengthy contract extension. Bailiff's relative lack of "big wins" in comparison to rather easy wins over crap programs is particularly troubling.

Liked this tweet from earlier today...

James Casey ‏@jamescasey85 10h
On my way to Phoenix for the NFL-NCAA Coaches Academy. Going to play as long as I can, but I need a game plan for life after playing too.

(02-14-2014 02:42 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Couple of questions:

1. What has to happen next year to make your opinion swing positively at all? Or is there nothing that can be done at this point?

2. Do your feelings on this preclude you from supporting other initiatives designed to improve things for the football program?

Just curious.

1. I only offered my opinion based on my view of his performance and the prospects for the program to date. Of course that can change. I have no problem given DB and his staff accolades, as I did many times this season.

2. Of course not.

(02-14-2014 04:26 PM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 03:50 PM)KingNayte Wrote:  I tend to post some for about 5-6 months, then disappear for a year or so because I get so frustrated by the delusional and grumpy tone of this place that I remember why I quit reading in the first place.

I guess I'll see you in a year or two. This thread is just ridiculous.

I am continually amazed how worked up people get about what others write, especially when they then try to 'police' what others write. "I'm leaving, unless I hear a better tone on this, etc, etc..."

It's perfectly rational to be concerned about Bailiff's overall losing track record justifying a lengthy contract extension. Bailiff's relative lack of "big wins" in comparison to rather easy wins over crap programs is particularly troubling.

This is not directed at you, and is not meant as a commentary on the exchange above.

But it's worth pointing out that that 'disagreeing with' or 'not liking the extreme negativity, or even the overall general negativity' of a post or group of posts is not necessarily the same thing as 'policing'. And that calling out hyperbole and exaggerated criticism is as valid a reason for posting as the hyperbole and criticism itself.

Not directed at you again, but on occasion some posters get just as worked up when others disagree with what they've written, as the people who disagreed with them.

With regards to judging Dr. K on the basis of this extension ... of far more interest is how he addresses the basketball situation competently and marshalls whatever resources need to be in place to take action.

I was expecting he would go into business after football. With his high GPA in mathematical economics etc., he would have the quant skills to get into a top MBA program.

(02-14-2014 04:33 PM)owl40 Wrote:  Liked this tweet from earlier today...

James Casey ‏@jamescasey85 10h
On my way to Phoenix for the NFL-NCAA Coaches Academy. Going to play as long as I can, but I need a game plan for life after playing too.

(02-14-2014 04:57 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 04:26 PM)Bay Area Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 03:50 PM)KingNayte Wrote:  I tend to post some for about 5-6 months, then disappear for a year or so because I get so frustrated by the delusional and grumpy tone of this place that I remember why I quit reading in the first place.

I guess I'll see you in a year or two. This thread is just ridiculous.

I am continually amazed how worked up people get about what others write, especially when they then try to 'police' what others write. "I'm leaving, unless I hear a better tone on this, etc, etc..."

It's perfectly rational to be concerned about Bailiff's overall losing track record justifying a lengthy contract extension. Bailiff's relative lack of "big wins" in comparison to rather easy wins over crap programs is particularly troubling.

This is not directed at you, and is not meant as a commentary on the exchange above.

But it's worth pointing out that that 'disagreeing with' or 'not liking the extreme negativity, or even the overall general negativity' of a post or group of posts is not necessarily the same thing as 'policing'. And that calling out hyperbole and exaggerated criticism is as valid a reason for posting as the hyperbole and criticism itself.

Not directed at you again, but on occasion some posters get just as worked up when others disagree with what they've written, as the people who disagreed with them.

Last post (or I was just fed up and will totally flip-flop on my not posting, but I don't think that's the case).

Thank you for clarifying a bit, Rick, as what you're saying is exactly the sentiment I'm feeling. And the reason I step away from it is because it is absurd to get worked up about some of these things, but it's what I find myself doing when I read hyperbole, straw man arguments, and even, I'll admit, well-reasoned arguments that I simply disagree with. And it's just not worth that energy.

So rather than "policing" things that upset me, I'll just step away from it, but I am self-righteous enough to do it in a public and showy way.

A sports board is a forum where there will always be spirited discussions about events surrounding the subject team. Such passion often includes "hyberbole, straw man arguments, and even...well reasoned arguments" with which each and every user will sometimes disagree. We often get in each other's sights when we disagree, but we all share a passion for Rice sports. Personally, I would not have it any other way. One person's negativity is another person's objectivity. While I am occasionally irritated by points and posters I disagree with, I very much enjoy the back and forth and often learn quite a bit here. So, stay away awhile King, but come back soon.

(02-14-2014 04:39 PM)At Ease Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 02:42 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Couple of questions:

1. What has to happen next year to make your opinion swing positively at all? Or is there nothing that can be done at this point?

2. Do your feelings on this preclude you from supporting other initiatives designed to improve things for the football program?

Just curious.

1. I only offered my opinion based on my view of his performance and the prospects for the program to date. Of course that can change. I have no problem given DB and his staff accolades, as I did many times this season.

2. Of course not.

Oh, I never said you never gave credit. I just asked the question because of the tone I perceived from your post. To me, it sounded fed up and just about done with what you were writing about so I wondered what would change that. Inferring tone is one thing on a message board that is tough.

On the second one, I'm glad to hear that. Because I believe this group here can affect positive change on this program if people are willing to step up and try (not singling you out, targeting everyone on the board).

Just out of curiousity..What is David's annual salary? What is David's buyout? What is Rice's buyout? What are the escalation provisions?

KingNayte Wrote:Last post (or I was just fed up and will totally flip-flop on my not posting, but I don't think that's the case).

Thank you for clarifying a bit, Rick, as what you're saying is exactly the sentiment I'm feeling. And the reason I step away from it is because it is absurd to get worked up about some of these things, but it's what I find myself doing when I read hyperbole, straw man arguments, and even, I'll admit, well-reasoned arguments that I simply disagree with. And it's just not worth that energy.

So rather than "policing" things that upset me, I'll just step away from it, but I am self-righteous enough to do it in a public and showy way.

Totally understand your feelings. There are times I want to bail as well.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(02-14-2014 04:58 PM)I45owl Wrote:  With regards to judging Dr. K on the basis of this extension ... of far more interest is how he addresses the basketball situation competently and marshalls whatever resources need to be in place to take action.

Agree. Get the relatively easy action out of the way so he can focus on the far more difficult one.

We're lucky to have Bailiff here. I'm parroting what Kaarlgard said at the the recruiting meeting, who evidently agrees with me.

he had 3 years left, now he jas 5, so basically a 2 year extention. If last year's extension was a bit too much, this takes us to about where we should be, and the 5 year length will help him to recruit effectively.