I've been impressed with the comments from Mizzou's coach regarding Michael Sam, and the fact that the team seems to have been fine, and in fact had a great season. (So why is it then that 18-22 year old amateurs can handle it, but supposedly it would "imbalance" the locker room among a team of adult professionals?)

So, to bring it on topic, is Rice ready for an openly gay (at least to team and coaches) player? I'd like to think we are, but really, I have no idea. Maybe it's already happened and we just don't know because he wasn't an NFL prospect.

Is Greenspan gone yet? Oh, he is? Then of course Rice is ready.

Wouldn't it be nice if this was actually an issue for Rice? The program doesn't have the luxury of refusing scholarships to top prospects on any basis other than academics.

(02-11-2014 04:07 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I've been impressed with the comments from Mizzou's coach regarding Michael Sam, and the fact that the team seems to have been fine, and in fact had a great season. (So why is it then that 18-22 year old amateurs can handle it, but supposedly it would "imbalance" the locker room among a team of adult professionals?)

So, to bring it on topic, is Rice ready for an openly gay (at least to team and coaches) player? I'd like to think we are, but really, I have no idea. Maybe it's already happened and we just don't know because he wasn't an NFL prospect.

There is a slim chance that a gay player hasn't played for a Rice team yet. Whether or not that player was openly gay is the question, and it's probably unlikely.

Hopefully Michael Sam coming forward continues the progress forward so that, in the future, this isn't even a topic of conversation.

(02-11-2014 04:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 04:07 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I've been impressed with the comments from Mizzou's coach regarding Michael Sam, and the fact that the team seems to have been fine, and in fact had a great season. (So why is it then that 18-22 year old amateurs can handle it, but supposedly it would "imbalance" the locker room among a team of adult professionals?)

So, to bring it on topic, is Rice ready for an openly gay (at least to team and coaches) player? I'd like to think we are, but really, I have no idea. Maybe it's already happened and we just don't know because he wasn't an NFL prospect.

There is a slim chance that a gay player hasn't played for a Rice team yet. Whether or not that player was openly gay is the question, and it's probably unlikely.

Hopefully Michael Sam coming forward continues the progress forward so that, in the future, this isn't even a topic of conversation.

Well said.

(02-11-2014 04:35 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Wouldn't it be nice if this was actually an issue for Rice? The program doesn't have the luxury of refusing scholarships to top prospects on any basis other than academics.

Not quite sure I follow your logic.

If the program had multiple interested and academically-eligible prospects for every available scolarship, then other factors might be relevant. IMO, sexual orientation should never be a consideration, but if it is now then priorities are seriously skewed. Turning down a top prospect getting offers from P5 schools because he's gay would be crazy.

(02-11-2014 04:47 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 04:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 04:07 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I've been impressed with the comments from Mizzou's coach regarding Michael Sam, and the fact that the team seems to have been fine, and in fact had a great season. (So why is it then that 18-22 year old amateurs can handle it, but supposedly it would "imbalance" the locker room among a team of adult professionals?)

So, to bring it on topic, is Rice ready for an openly gay (at least to team and coaches) player? I'd like to think we are, but really, I have no idea. Maybe it's already happened and we just don't know because he wasn't an NFL prospect.

There is a slim chance that a gay player hasn't played for a Rice team yet. Whether or not that player was openly gay is the question, and it's probably unlikely.

Hopefully Michael Sam coming forward continues the progress forward so that, in the future, this isn't even a topic of conversation.

Well said.

Agreed.

(02-11-2014 04:07 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I've been impressed with the comments from Mizzou's coach regarding Michael Sam, and the fact that the team seems to have been fine, and in fact had a great season. (So why is it then that 18-22 year old amateurs can handle it, but supposedly it would "imbalance" the locker room among a team of adult professionals?)

If anyone ever really felt it necessary to provide evidence that chronological age does not correspond to mental maturity, he would need to look no further than professional sports.

(02-11-2014 04:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  There is a slim chance that a gay player hasn't played for a Rice team yet. Whether or not that player was openly gay is the question, and it's probably unlikely.

Zero chance of the former. In the 2002 aftermath of some (I'll be diplomatic here) controversial statements about homosexuality and biology by our head football coach, there was an interview with a former player who was, by then, openly gay. His comments were basically positive but IIRC it was clear that he was in the closet while on the team. I don't remember the player's name. He was a walk-on and didn't play much.

I doubt he was the only one.

I suspect that any team is ready to respond well if they have a team leader/All-SEC/All-American caliber player come out as gay. The test for any team is if the guy third down on the depth chart, who may play 6-8 minutes per game would be well received.

I agree with all of the above sentiments. I have been a labor and employment lawyer for over thirty years. I think we have come a long way in our tolerance for diversity. In the early to mid-70s while at Rice, I remember meeting some Aggies who were racist and proud of it. (I don't mean to single out AtM, I believe that those folks existed throughout SWC schools). Amusingly, one guy my room mate and I knew aspired to be a basketball coach, but didn't want to interact with black players! But we all reflect to some extent the times in which we live, as well as who we associate with. I suspect that the changing mores will leave those who still harbor bigotry against gays in the closet now or shooting ducks in North Louisiana. It will take more time to bring about genuine change in their views. .

I went to graduate school at A&M in the mid to late 1970s and I do not remember that racism was a big issue but there was problems with sexism in the corps and gays were really not accepted in the university. The sexism involved some corps members not really liking that some women were entering the corps. The sexism was less in the rest of the University with my sister elected head of the Resident Student Association in 1977-1978 and another woman served as chief edition of the Battalion, the student newspaper. A black, Fred McClure, was President of Student Government for 1975-1976. It should be remember that Emory Bellard in 1972 was the first SWC football coach to bring in more than one or two blacks in a class (UH did not start playing SWC football until 1976).

I remember a bumper sticker sold then which said Queers and Steers only in Austin.

I think the NFL current resistance is overstated. The 1993 Houston Oilers got along with knowing 2 of the players on the team were gay even though they were not public about it. They are still protecting the privacy of those two. Gay players will be accepted if they help the team win games.

I was not surprised about Phil Robertson's anti-gay comments since they tracked what was in the letters of Paul in the Bible. I gave up complete Bible literalism a long time ago. I thought his comments about the blacks he knew did not have any complaints about segregation were ignorant. I grew up at the end of segregation in Houston and I knew even then there was something wrong with it such as no blacks could get into Rice until the mid 1960s.

(02-11-2014 08:17 PM)NolaOwl Wrote:  I agree with all of the above sentiments. I have been a labor and employment lawyer for over thirty years. I think we have come a long way in our tolerance for diversity. In the early to mid-70s while at Rice, I remember meeting some Aggies who were racist and proud of it. (I don't mean to single out AtM, I believe that those folks existed throughout SWC schools). Amusingly, one guy my room mate and I knew aspired to be a basketball coach, but didn't want to interact with black players! But we all reflect to some extent the times in which we live, as well as who we associate with. I suspect that the changing mores will leave those who still harbor bigotry against gays in the closet now or shooting ducks in North Louisiana. It will take more time to bring about genuine change in their views. .

(02-11-2014 05:33 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 04:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  There is a slim chance that a gay player hasn't played for a Rice team yet. Whether or not that player was openly gay is the question, and it's probably unlikely.

Zero chance of the former. In the 2002 aftermath of some (I'll be diplomatic here) controversial statements about homosexuality and biology by our head football coach, there was an interview with a former player who was, by then, openly gay. His comments were basically positive but IIRC it was clear that he was in the closet while on the team. I don't remember the player's name. He was a walk-on and didn't play much.

I doubt he was the only one.

I knew that guy, although I don't remember his name. He dated a friend of my wife's, and we went out a few times*. Nice guy. I think he was on the team his first two years, and I'm not sure he ever actually played. If I remember correctly, he told us that he didn't feel comfortable coming out while on the team, and that was part of his motivation for leaving the team, but definitely not his major motivation. But, like you said, that he enjoyed being on the team for the time he was there.

*Ah Sunday brunch at La Strada, back before it burned down. I can't think of a better way to ruin an entire day, before noon.

75, I certainly did not intend to tar everyone at A&M in the mid 70's. The particular guy I was referring to came from rural East Texas and probably did not represent the typical Aggie at that time. I have come across many other Aggies since then who appear not to be prejudiced. My point was simply that we've come a ways since then.

(02-13-2014 07:09 PM)75src Wrote:  I went to graduate school at A&M in the mid to late 1970s and I do not remember that racism was a big issue but there was problems with sexism in the corps and gays were really not accepted in the university. The sexism involved some corps members not really liking that some women were entering the corps. The sexism was less in the rest of the University with my sister elected head of the Resident Student Association in 1977-1978 and another woman served as chief edition of the Battalion, the student newspaper. A black, Fred McClure, was President of Student Government for 1975-1976. It should be remember that Emory Bellard in 1972 was the first SWC football coach to bring in more than one or two blacks in a class (UH did not start playing SWC football until 1976).

I remember a bumper sticker sold then which said Queers and Steers only in Austin.

I think the NFL current resistance is overstated. The 1993 Houston Oilers got along with knowing 2 of the players on the team were gay even though they were not public about it. They are still protecting the privacy of those two. Gay players will be accepted if they help the team win games.

I was not surprised about Phil Robertson's anti-gay comments since they tracked what was in the letters of Paul in the Bible. I gave up complete Bible literalism a long time ago. I thought his comments about the blacks he knew did not have any complaints about segregation were ignorant. I grew up at the end of segregation in Houston and I knew even then there was something wrong with it such as no blacks could get into Rice until the mid 1960s.

(02-11-2014 08:17 PM)NolaOwl Wrote:  I agree with all of the above sentiments. I have been a labor and employment lawyer for over thirty years. I think we have come a long way in our tolerance for diversity. In the early to mid-70s while at Rice, I remember meeting some Aggies who were racist and proud of it. (I don't mean to single out AtM, I believe that those folks existed throughout SWC schools). Amusingly, one guy my room mate and I knew aspired to be a basketball coach, but didn't want to interact with black players! But we all reflect to some extent the times in which we live, as well as who we associate with. I suspect that the changing mores will leave those who still harbor bigotry against gays in the closet now or shooting ducks in North Louisiana. It will take more time to bring about genuine change in their views. .

We have had several players that are gay, but were not out yet while playing. It is interesting to see past teammate reactions, most of the ones I know are not accepting.