It is a big deal because Sam is the first person to do it in a major American sport. However, I do long for the day when revelations like these are met with a yawn because so few people actually care one way or the other.

I don't think we're too far from that day but I also know that there will be some segments of this country that will NEVER accept a gay athlete. Hell, there are still people in this country that have been slow to accept minorities in positions of power and influence. That's just reality.

A few years ago, I was at a conference in Texas and became engaged in a long discussion with a delightful older woman and we talked about everything from soup to nuts. Her husband had grown up in Western PA but they had lived together in Texas since the early 60s. She was very sweet and engaging and was very funny. I liked her an awful lot. Very sassy and very bright.

Unfortunately, near the end of our discussion she offered - completely out of the blue - that America was going down the tubes and it was all because we "elected that (n-bomb)" as president. She didn't whisper or anything. She just came out and said it like I might say I need to fill my gas tank.

This delightful woman then went on to reason that everybody knows black people aren't smart enough to lead a country like the US which is why we had never made that mistake in the past. I was dumbfounded and had no idea what to say so I just politely nodded and got the hell out of there. It was terrifying.

(02-10-2014 09:02 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  It really shouldn't be an issue what people do in their bedrooms. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the professional world.

Which is why it shouldn't be brought up, period. I see no reason to discuss sexuality of any type in the work place.

(02-10-2014 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 09:02 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  It really shouldn't be an issue what people do in their bedrooms. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the professional world.

Which is why it shouldn't be brought up, period. I see no reason to discuss sexuality of any type in the work place.

Well, in theory, that's nice and I hope that we get there, but we're not exactly there yet. If the reason why people don't want to discuss it is because they fear for their job or being ostracized socially (or, on the other side, people don't like gays for whatever reason), then that means that there's still a problem.

Forget about *discussing* it at work, as yes, you can potentially get into trouble talking about any type of personal relationships (whether heterosexual or homosexual) there. Think of a much more nuanced situation: your work holiday party that you would take your spouse or significant other to. A heterosexual male doesn't even think twice about bringing his wife and any social implications. For the most part, we're also at the point where an interracial heterosexual couple doesn't get all eyes in the room cast on them - it's "normal". Is it at that point for gays and lesbians bringing their significant others to workplace functions as of yet? In some places, particularly major urban areas and highly educated work environments, that might be true, but there are still a lot of places where it isn't the case. Until that's considered to be "normal", then society isn't quite there yet in just stating that it doesn't need to be talked about (just like race in previous generations).

Once again, there's a large generational divide here. I think most younger people (under 40) are at the point where it *is* considered to be "normal" and they can legitimately state that sexual orientation doesn't matter.

(02-10-2014 11:31 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 09:02 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  It really shouldn't be an issue what people do in their bedrooms. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the professional world.

Which is why it shouldn't be brought up, period. I see no reason to discuss sexuality of any type in the work place.

Well, in theory, that's nice and I hope that we get there, but we're not exactly there yet. If the reason why people don't want to discuss it is because they fear for their job or being ostracized socially (or, on the other side, people don't like gays for whatever reason), then that means that there's still a problem.

Forget about *discussing* it at work, as yes, you can potentially get into trouble talking about any type of personal relationships (whether heterosexual or homosexual) there. Think of a much more nuanced situation: your work holiday party that you would take your spouse or significant other to. A heterosexual male doesn't even think twice about bringing his wife and any social implications. For the most part, we're also at the point where an interracial heterosexual couple doesn't get all eyes in the room cast on them - it's "normal". Is it at that point for gays and lesbians bringing their significant others to workplace functions as of yet? In some places, particularly major urban areas and highly educated work environments, that might be true, but there are still a lot of places where it isn't the case. Until that's considered to be "normal", then society isn't quite there yet in just stating that it doesn't need to be talked about (just like race in previous generations).

Once again, there's a large generational divide here. I think most younger people (under 40) are at the point where it *is* considered to be "normal" and they can legitimately state that sexual orientation doesn't matter.

What's sad, is that the people that actually get turned off by the whole conversation are the ones who don't hate gays because of who they are and don't make judgments about them.

This "in your face" tactic that gets used causes disinterest and even engenders dislike among a portion of society that isn't opposed to homosexuals and then it just entrenches the ones who do hate them.

(02-10-2014 01:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 11:31 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 09:02 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  It really shouldn't be an issue what people do in their bedrooms. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the professional world.

Which is why it shouldn't be brought up, period. I see no reason to discuss sexuality of any type in the work place.

Well, in theory, that's nice and I hope that we get there, but we're not exactly there yet. If the reason why people don't want to discuss it is because they fear for their job or being ostracized socially (or, on the other side, people don't like gays for whatever reason), then that means that there's still a problem.

Forget about *discussing* it at work, as yes, you can potentially get into trouble talking about any type of personal relationships (whether heterosexual or homosexual) there. Think of a much more nuanced situation: your work holiday party that you would take your spouse or significant other to. A heterosexual male doesn't even think twice about bringing his wife and any social implications. For the most part, we're also at the point where an interracial heterosexual couple doesn't get all eyes in the room cast on them - it's "normal". Is it at that point for gays and lesbians bringing their significant others to workplace functions as of yet? In some places, particularly major urban areas and highly educated work environments, that might be true, but there are still a lot of places where it isn't the case. Until that's considered to be "normal", then society isn't quite there yet in just stating that it doesn't need to be talked about (just like race in previous generations).

Once again, there's a large generational divide here. I think most younger people (under 40) are at the point where it *is* considered to be "normal" and they can legitimately state that sexual orientation doesn't matter.

What's sad, is that the people that actually get turned off by the whole conversation are the ones who don't hate gays because of who they are and don't make judgments about them.

This "in your face" tactic that gets used causes disinterest and even engenders dislike among a portion of society that isn't opposed to homosexuals and then it just entrenches the ones who do hate them.

How is Sam's coming out "In Your Face"?

(02-10-2014 01:34 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 01:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 11:31 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 09:02 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  It really shouldn't be an issue what people do in their bedrooms. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the professional world.

Which is why it shouldn't be brought up, period. I see no reason to discuss sexuality of any type in the work place.

Well, in theory, that's nice and I hope that we get there, but we're not exactly there yet. If the reason why people don't want to discuss it is because they fear for their job or being ostracized socially (or, on the other side, people don't like gays for whatever reason), then that means that there's still a problem.

Forget about *discussing* it at work, as yes, you can potentially get into trouble talking about any type of personal relationships (whether heterosexual or homosexual) there. Think of a much more nuanced situation: your work holiday party that you would take your spouse or significant other to. A heterosexual male doesn't even think twice about bringing his wife and any social implications. For the most part, we're also at the point where an interracial heterosexual couple doesn't get all eyes in the room cast on them - it's "normal". Is it at that point for gays and lesbians bringing their significant others to workplace functions as of yet? In some places, particularly major urban areas and highly educated work environments, that might be true, but there are still a lot of places where it isn't the case. Until that's considered to be "normal", then society isn't quite there yet in just stating that it doesn't need to be talked about (just like race in previous generations).

Once again, there's a large generational divide here. I think most younger people (under 40) are at the point where it *is* considered to be "normal" and they can legitimately state that sexual orientation doesn't matter.

What's sad, is that the people that actually get turned off by the whole conversation are the ones who don't hate gays because of who they are and don't make judgments about them.

This "in your face" tactic that gets used causes disinterest and even engenders dislike among a portion of society that isn't opposed to homosexuals and then it just entrenches the ones who do hate them.

How is Sam's coming out "In Your Face"?

I'm speaking in generalities. Notice how I didn't use his name in my post?

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

Stood on the sidelines when Mizzou play AState, I personally don't know anyone who gives two rips one way or the other about a player being gay. Ten or twenty years ago? Yeah it would have been a big deal.

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

This makes no sense.

He came out to his team a while ago. You think that didn't get around the SEC in some fashion?

Plus, it is the SEC, as long as he is good and helps win nobody would care of he was blowing his cat.

(02-10-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

This makes no sense.

He came out to his team a while ago. You think that didn't get around the SEC in some fashion?

Plus, it is the SEC, as long as he is good and helps win nobody would care of he was blowing his cat.

To SEC fans, wins are the most important thing. Everything else comes secondary.

(02-10-2014 02:58 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

This makes no sense.

He came out to his team a while ago. You think that didn't get around the SEC in some fashion?

Plus, it is the SEC, as long as he is good and helps win nobody would care of he was blowing his cat.

To SEC fans, wins are the most important thing. Everything else comes secondary.

A little off topic, Bit man, why did you give up mod status?

(02-10-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

This makes no sense.

He came out to his team a while ago. You think that didn't get around the SEC in some fashion?

Plus, it is the SEC, as long as he is good and helps win nobody would care of he was blowing his cat.

I'm old enough to remember what the 85 Percent screamed at Sonny Collins and Mitzi Jackson and Walter Packer. And sometimes I think that's all in the past. And then ...

A few years ago, down the road where I walk my dog sometimes, one of my neighbors found something. A body, burned and blackened with a tire jammed around its arms. He was either beaten to death and burned because he was gay, or beaten severely and burned to death because he was gay.

They took his life and torched him like a pile of trash because he was gay.

Someday we might be better than that, and maybe Michael Sam will help us get there.

(02-09-2014 11:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should his sexuality make anybody root for or against him?

The same reason 42 was a movie.

(02-10-2014 12:10 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  And before I get labelled a "gay hater", my WHOLE point is that your sex life needs to stay in the minds and hearts of the only people it matters to... YOURSELF, gay or straight.

Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

(02-10-2014 03:31 PM)Proud Bammer Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

This makes no sense.

He came out to his team a while ago. You think that didn't get around the SEC in some fashion?

Plus, it is the SEC, as long as he is good and helps win nobody would care of he was blowing his cat.

I'm old enough to remember what the 85 Percent screamed at Sonny Collins and Mitzi Jackson and Walter Packer. And sometimes I think that's all in the past. And then ...

A few years ago, down the road where I walk my dog sometimes, one of my neighbors found something. A body, burned and blackened with a tire jammed around its arms. He was either beaten to death and burned because he was gay, or beaten severely and burned to death because he was gay.

They took his life and torched him like a pile of trash because he was gay.

Someday we might be better than that, and maybe Michael Sam will help us get there.

Billy Jack Gaither (Sylacauga), right? If that's the case youre referring to. He was beaten and then burned alive while his killers screamed bible passages at him. We know this because it came out at trial.

If you are talking about Scotty Weaver (Bay Minette), he was beaten to death and then his body was burned.

If you are talking about another case, I'd like to hear about it. I'm aware of four other hate crime murders in Alabama from 1998-2005, but 3 of them were in Montgomery (one shooting, one murdered in a beating with the blunt end of a hammer, one beat to death with a 2x4). The other case came out of Mobile, where a man was murdered after leaving a Gay bar in Biloxi. His body was found in a ditch near Bayou la Batre. To their eternal shame, neither the authorities in Alabama nor in Mississippi bothered to investigate the crime.

Things seem to be a bit better now.

Quote: Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

It's not something to "admit to".

my initial response to this and every other coming out has always been "ok." and I can't wait for the rest of the country to catch up, because it will mean sexuality truly does not matter.

(02-10-2014 05:27 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  

Quote: Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

It's not something to "admit to".

my initial response to this and every other coming out has always been "ok." and I can't wait for the rest of the country to catch up, because it will mean sexuality truly does not matter.

And this is part of the process.

(02-10-2014 05:01 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should his sexuality make anybody root for or against him?

The same reason 42 was a movie.

(02-10-2014 12:10 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  And before I get labelled a "gay hater", my WHOLE point is that your sex life needs to stay in the minds and hearts of the only people it matters to... YOURSELF, gay or straight.

Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

He already had "come out." He just didn't do it in the press before.

(02-10-2014 05:01 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should his sexuality make anybody root for or against him?

The same reason 42 was a movie.

(02-10-2014 12:10 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  And before I get labelled a "gay hater", my WHOLE point is that your sex life needs to stay in the minds and hearts of the only people it matters to... YOURSELF, gay or straight.

Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

Ok the next person that equates this situation to Jackie Robinson needs to be slapped, because that is ridiculous. Does a young man get stopped at a traffic light in a nice car because he's gay? Have police ever put pitbulls on people because they were gay? Did countless acts of violence happen to innocent people because they are gay? Were people forced to not go to a certain school because they were gay? Did people ever have to sit on the back of buses because they were gay? Jackie Robinson's world is NOTHING like Micheal Sam's world. Robinson lived in a time where it was a real possibility that after a game he could've been kidnapped and hung somewhere in a tree. That was the America he lived in. If it wasn't for Jackie Robinson, Micheal Sam's sexual orientation would be the last thing he or his family and friends would need to be concerned for him about. Sam could've declined to talk about it and it wouldn't have mattered. Robinson in no way shape or form could hide his Blackness.

(02-10-2014 07:42 PM)Texas2Step Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 05:01 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should his sexuality make anybody root for or against him?

The same reason 42 was a movie.

(02-10-2014 12:10 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  And before I get labelled a "gay hater", my WHOLE point is that your sex life needs to stay in the minds and hearts of the only people it matters to... YOURSELF, gay or straight.

Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

Ok the next person that equates this situation to Jackie Robinson needs to be slapped, because that is ridiculous. Does a young man get stopped at a traffic light in a nice car because he's gay? Have police ever put pitbulls on people because they were gay? Did countless acts of violence happen to innocent people because they are gay? Were people forced to not go to a certain school because they were gay? Did people ever have to sit on the back of buses because they were gay? Jackie Robinson's world is NOTHING like Micheal Sam's world. Robinson lived in a time where it was a real possibility that after a game he could've been kidnapped and hung somewhere in a tree. That was the America he lived in. If it wasn't for Jackie Robinson, Micheal Sam's sexual orientation would be the last thing he or his family and friends would need to be concerned for him about. Sam could've declined to talk about it and it wouldn't have mattered. Robinson in no way shape or form could hide his Blackness.

Do us all a favor and educate yourself. Matthew Shepard is only one of many.

(02-10-2014 05:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 03:31 PM)Proud Bammer Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 02:52 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  I don't blame him for waiting until after college. Those SEC fanbases would be awful. I don't think the people of Alabama or Arkansas would be too welcoming to an openly gay player.

This makes no sense.

He came out to his team a while ago. You think that didn't get around the SEC in some fashion?

Plus, it is the SEC, as long as he is good and helps win nobody would care of he was blowing his cat.

I'm old enough to remember what the 85 Percent screamed at Sonny Collins and Mitzi Jackson and Walter Packer. And sometimes I think that's all in the past. And then ...

A few years ago, down the road where I walk my dog sometimes, one of my neighbors found something. A body, burned and blackened with a tire jammed around its arms. He was either beaten to death and burned because he was gay, or beaten severely and burned to death because he was gay.

They took his life and torched him like a pile of trash because he was gay.

Someday we might be better than that, and maybe Michael Sam will help us get there.

Billy Jack Gaither (Sylacauga), right? If that's the case youre referring to. He was beaten and then burned alive while his killers screamed bible passages at him. We know this because it came out at trial.

If you are talking about Scotty Weaver (Bay Minette), he was beaten to death and then his body was burned.

If you are talking about another case, I'd like to hear about it. I'm aware of four other hate crime murders in Alabama from 1998-2005, but 3 of them were in Montgomery (one shooting, one murdered in a beating with the blunt end of a hammer, one beat to death with a 2x4). The other case came out of Mobile, where a man was murdered after leaving a Gay bar in Biloxi. His body was found in a ditch near Bayou la Batre. To their eternal shame, neither the authorities in Alabama nor in Mississippi bothered to investigate the crime.

Things seem to be a bit better now.

That would be Gaither.

Bastards deserve the needle.

(02-10-2014 07:42 PM)Texas2Step Wrote:  

(02-10-2014 05:01 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 11:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should his sexuality make anybody root for or against him?

The same reason 42 was a movie.

(02-10-2014 12:10 AM)Texas2Step Wrote:  And before I get labelled a "gay hater", my WHOLE point is that your sex life needs to stay in the minds and hearts of the only people it matters to... YOURSELF, gay or straight.

Being gay isn't just about his sex life. To say he shouldn't come out because "we don't need to know that" is like saying someone shouldn't admit to being married.

Ok the next person that equates this situation to Jackie Robinson needs to be slapped, because that is ridiculous. Does a young man get stopped at a traffic light in a nice car because he's gay? Have police ever put pitbulls on people because they were gay? Did countless acts of violence happen to innocent people because they are gay? Were people forced to not go to a certain school because they were gay? Did people ever have to sit on the back of buses because they were gay? Jackie Robinson's world is NOTHING like Micheal Sam's world. Robinson lived in a time where it was a real possibility that after a game he could've been kidnapped and hung somewhere in a tree. That was the America he lived in. If it wasn't for Jackie Robinson, Micheal Sam's sexual orientation would be the last thing he or his family and friends would need to be concerned for him about. Sam could've declined to talk about it and it wouldn't have mattered. Robinson in no way shape or form could hide his Blackness.

I can remember many incidents of rednecks sitting outside gay bars waiting for gays to come out for them to beat up on. Gays have been murdered by homophobes for centuries. Gays were even rounded up by Nazis, and put in concentration camps with Jews. Some joined the Jews in the gas chambers. I once met an old gay man in CA with a Nazi identification tattoo on his arm.

Blacks weren't alone in their persecution. But gay persecution didn't get the same kind of press. So it's not as well known.