http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/colum...2e458.html

SHE COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEBODY! Lock her up, throw away the key.

This is predictable.

Didn't the same thing happen on an episode of My Three Sons (making all those birthday cakes and pies?)

I'm not the least bit upset at this. It's an old, well-known, important law that is enforced fairly.

(02-04-2014 09:45 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  This is predictable.

Didn't the same thing happen on an episode of My Three Sons (making all those birthday cakes and pies?)

I'm not the least bit upset at this. It's an old, well-known, important law that is enforced fairly.

so how many school bake sales are shut down in Madison county, Torch? I'd wager there are a ton of those that break that same rule, but aren't touched.

When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

(02-04-2014 12:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

I understand the reasoning behind the laws. At the same time, the girl and her kitchen should have the opportunity to be inspected just like any other food serving joint.

I expect she is a threat to competition and some business ratted on her. I find it hard to believe that any bureaucrat is motivated enough to find her on their own.

(02-04-2014 12:29 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

I understand the reasoning behind the laws. At the same time, the girl and her kitchen should have the opportunity to be inspected just like any other food serving joint.

My wife is involved in this stuff a great deal with the Health Department. Here in NC you can actually do that. It does involve a licence and the kitchen has to meet certain requirements similar to any other business. I expect that is similar in Ill. You can't prepare food for sale in the same manner you do for your family.

(02-04-2014 12:29 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

I understand the reasoning behind the laws. At the same time, the girl and her kitchen should have the opportunity to be inspected just like any other food serving joint.

You can't eat in a restaurant kitchen.

Illinois...Where the govt wants their money or legs get broken.

(02-04-2014 12:54 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:29 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

I understand the reasoning behind the laws. At the same time, the girl and her kitchen should have the opportunity to be inspected just like any other food serving joint.

You can't eat in a restaurant kitchen.

What is fundamental to this overall argument is the assumption that government is staffed, willing and able to actually inspect and regulate the food service industry. How many times in a given year are establishments inspected? I'd hazard less than once a year in most locales.

So, in the end, what are we really achieving?

That's a fair question.

(02-04-2014 01:42 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:54 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:29 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

I understand the reasoning behind the laws. At the same time, the girl and her kitchen should have the opportunity to be inspected just like any other food serving joint.

You can't eat in a restaurant kitchen.

What is fundamental to this overall argument is the assumption that government is staffed, willing and able to actually inspect and regulate the food service industry. How many times in a given year are establishments inspected? I'd hazard less than once a year in most locales.

So, in the end, what are we really achieving?

Funny you should ask. In theory we are achieving that all restaurants meet all health inspection requirements. In fact, what we probably are achieving is some politician being able to extract some campaign money from the food industry so the Health Inspection Arm of the government doesn't single them out and make life miserable. Excepting when a bunch a people get sick - then they investigate.

Isn't that generally how government works?

(02-04-2014 01:42 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:54 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:29 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 12:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  When I was in high school parents would bake cakes and bring them to school so they could be sold to raise money for whatever the purpose was at the time. Isn't this kinda the same thing? In the end, the bake sales where shut down, but not because the stuff wasn't made in a dedicated kitchen, but because people got paranoid about being poisoned.

Accidents happen.

You do a one off for a bake sale, and you just clean up your kitchen before you start.

You do this routinely and you eventually overlook something. It's human nature.

I respect and admire her enthusiasm, but I'm not an anarcho-capitalist. Some of these old laws have sound reasoning behind them.

I understand the reasoning behind the laws. At the same time, the girl and her kitchen should have the opportunity to be inspected just like any other food serving joint.

You can't eat in a restaurant kitchen.

What is fundamental to this overall argument is the assumption that government is staffed, willing and able to actually inspect and regulate the food service industry. How many times in a given year are establishments inspected? I'd hazard less than once a year in most locales.

So, in the end, what are we really achieving?

The fact that businesses do not want to poison customers is why establishments are generally safe to eat at. The regulations are just guidelines. You are correct. Inspections generally are every quarter. Nothing keeps the business safe between inspections but the owners and staff.

It's a great case study in how the cold dead hand of regulation stifles innovation, regardless of how well intentioned the regulation may be.

I'm conservative and generally believe government should stay the heck out of business but that said this girl isn't baking for a couple of times a year bake sale.

This girl (and likely with her parents help) is running a business from their home selling a food product and making regular income.

If she was just occasionally baking cupcakes and getting a little cash sporadically that's one thing but she's marketing her services and running a business.

She should be subject to the same rules that any bakery is subject to including paying taxes and SS, getting licensed and inspected, etc.

Do you really want to eat cupcakes from an uninspected kitchen having no idea what kind of cleanliness is involved in the prep...she's 11...how sanitary is her kitchen and preparation?
washed hands? how about some fecal material or snot in that tasty cupcake?
cross contamination with meat? ecoli anyone?
bakeware cleaned after each use?

(02-04-2014 12:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I expect she is a threat to competition and some business ratted on her. I find it hard to believe that any bureaucrat is motivated enough to find her on their own.

Probably so. And at some point I can kinda get that.

I threw pizzas for several years to help pay my way through college and still toss them around once in a while for fun and home made pie. I could, today, probably crank out around 20+ - pizzas an hour from my home with a little help from the wife or a kid. Should I be able to do that? Sell them to my neighbors instead of Papa johns, pizza hut or whomever?

No real difference, it's still a baked good. I know all the codes for a health inspection, passed dozens of them. Would that be right? Little cottage industries popping up all over?

This can clearly be taken way to far, as in the lemonade stands sand such, but this was turning into a real gig.

Now, i do wonder what would happen if she were to provide the cupcakes to these parties for a "donation", type thing. Hmmmm.

(02-04-2014 07:32 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I'm conservative and generally believe government should stay the heck out of business but that said this girl isn't baking for a couple of times a year bake sale.

This girl (and likely with her parents help) is running a business from their home selling a food product and making regular income.

If she was just occasionally baking cupcakes and getting a little cash sporadically that's one thing but she's marketing her services and running a business.

She should be subject to the same rules that any bakery is subject to including paying taxes and SS, getting licensed and inspected, etc.

Do you really want to eat cupcakes from an uninspected kitchen having no idea what kind of cleanliness is involved in the prep...she's 11...how sanitary is her kitchen and preparation?
washed hands? how about some fecal material or snot in that tasty cupcake?
cross contamination with meat? ecoli anyone?
bakeware cleaned after each use?

We hear about food poisoning quite often and frequently aboard cruise ships. And what you find in her cupcakes could also be found in a 5 star joint if things got lax. At least we know one thing, the food she's selling comes out of the same kitchen she's eating from.

I could go either way on this one, but I'm leaning towards the girl since no one is being forced to buy her cupcakes.