(01-29-2014 01:59 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 01:52 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  My friend is still on the road. She left work at 4pm yesterday.

Maybe folks will listen to the forecast and maybe work from home next time. Chalk it up to lessons learned.

Birmingham was iced-over a hour and a half after the first flake fell.

The local forecast called for, and this is a direct quote, "a dusting".

The problem was not the snow, nor the forecast, nor the schools, the governor or the mayor. Those are all mitigating circumstances. The fundamental problem in Atlanta metro area is that the area developed like caner over the last 40 years with too much traffic being funneled onto main arterial roads and highways that would need to be 3x as big to handle the capacity meaningfully. (I know, I remember as a young boy watching the I-285 highway/loop around Atlanta , which was two lanes each way, adding a 3rd lane each way (it's five, six and even seven lanes each way now) to alleviate traffic. Yeah, right.)

Twenty years ago, the "environmentalists" fought and defeated the "Northern Arc" which would have been in place by now and probably diverted enough heavy truck and through traffic to have alleviated what happened this week. Glad the squirrels were not inconvenienced.

Atlanta traffic and afternoon "rush hour" begins in many place at 3:00pm and lasts until 7:30pm on a regular day. When you dump almost the entire driving population on the roads at almost the exact same time, no matter how many plows you might have, or how much road salt and spreaders...it will not matter.

We have almost no grid systems in and around the metro--there is usually one way in and one way out. Atlanta developers fell in love with the "cul-de-sac" and the "walled-in prison" type of "neighborhood subdivision" instead of opening things up in the name of "security" and "exclusivity."

But, you can't go back...there are just more people nowadays than there were 40 years ago, and will be far more in the next 40 years than today. You have to rethink zoning and regulation, encourage less driving and more telecommuting, decentralize employment centers, allow more "live-work-play" and get rid of the walled-off and gated neighborhood and connect the cul-de-sacs by buying and knocking down a few homes to promote connectivity.

eta: just fyi: I live in a major suburb north of Atlanta next to a smaller downtown incorporated city. Though I do own a car, I walk from my house to 2 grocery stores, walk to the dry cleaner, walk to the coffee shop, walk to the bus stops when I need to, walk to the vet, walk to the city hall, walk to several restaurants, walk to the park, walk to the swimming pool, walk to the baseball field, etc.

I walked around on Tuesday night and observed the gridlock and all the people stacked and stopped three lanes deep on two major roads through the area in cars coming home from where-ever. I am in a smaller, older home on a regular street mixed with homes and businesses which has a small grid connectivity. There is no gate and a sidewalk anyone and everyone can walk by my house on. I have never had a problem with home invaders, etc... I have deer sometimes run through the back yard area.

My "lawn" is a small bunch of untreated wild grasses and weeds which I mow two or three times a summer, as it is slow-growing, not perfect, but reasonably well-kept and nice, not sloppy or unkempt. I waste no chemicals on it and don't care if it's green or brown. It's not a golf course, so it's not worth wasting resources on. My kid and I can kick a soccer ball on it just fine when we want to. There are squirrels that feed on the two bird feeders in the yard. It's small, but it's more than enough. It's cheap to heat and cool. It's nothing to impress others with...it's a home not an ego-stroker. I don't owe the bank anything so they don't own me.

The Northern Arc would have had no affect on Downtown connector transfer truck traffic.

(01-30-2014 06:46 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  /snip

Solve it all with Light Rail and Street Cars!

(for a small 10 billion dollar investment)

(01-31-2014 03:33 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-30-2014 06:46 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  /snip

Solve it all with Light Rail and Street Cars!

(for a small 10 billion dollar investment)

Might as well buy the snow plows.

(01-29-2014 09:06 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's what you do. It may sound complicated but we've been doing it up North for awhile. You can follow what we have done for decades as an example. Like a blueprint. You tax the populace for a couple of trucks. You buy a big metal thing you put on the front of the truck called a plow. You move the three inches of snow off the road with the metal contraption. You can then go from road to road safely.

Here is the problem with the suggestion: raise taxes. You know damn well that won't happen in the south.

Btw, they could use a couple small building to house a small amount of salt too-generally near the big cities. Something like this:



Only problem could be the humidity. But I would imagine it can be stored for years if it isn't used in a particular year.

(02-01-2014 01:51 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:06 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's what you do. It may sound complicated but we've been doing it up North for awhile. You can follow what we have done for decades as an example. Like a blueprint. You tax the populace for a couple of trucks. You buy a big metal thing you put on the front of the truck called a plow. You move the three inches of snow off the road with the metal contraption. You can then go from road to road safely.

Here is the problem with the suggestion: raise taxes. You know damn well that won't happen in the south.

Btw, they could use a couple small building to house a small amount of salt too-generally near the big cities. Something like this:

Georgia can't speak for the rest of the South. NC had roads salted and plowed.

(01-29-2014 09:20 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:06 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's what you do. It may sound complicated but we've been doing it up North for awhile. You can follow what we have done for decades as an example. Like a blueprint. You tax the populace for a couple of trucks. You buy a big metal thing you put on the front of the truck called a plow. You move the three inches of snow off the road with the metal contraption. You can then go from road to road safely.

So that's feasible for an area that gets snow once every 10 years?

I honestly don't even think they really need plows. Just a few trucks that can spread salt. Given that there will be little snow and mainly ice and relatively warm temps, salt may actually be enough. Just get a few spreaders for some state/city dump trucks.

(02-01-2014 02:25 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:20 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:06 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's what you do. It may sound complicated but we've been doing it up North for awhile. You can follow what we have done for decades as an example. Like a blueprint. You tax the populace for a couple of trucks. You buy a big metal thing you put on the front of the truck called a plow. You move the three inches of snow off the road with the metal contraption. You can then go from road to road safely.

So that's feasible for an area that gets snow once every 10 years?

I honestly don't even think they really need plows. Just a few trucks that can spread salt. Given that there will be little snow and mainly ice and relatively warm temps, salt may actually be enough. Just get a few spreaders for some state/city dump trucks.

A couple of salt trucks for one of the most populous metro area in the nation?

Buying enough plows and salt trucks and salt to have made a difference would have been a huge expenditure that would sit idle and useless except in this situation, which happens how often? Is that a reasonable use of resources?

There are situations where the expenditure of resources to deal with a rare event is justified by the potential consequences should that event occur. If we had been as well prepared to deal with a deep water oil well blowout as are the North Sea countries, the impact of Macondo would have been much less severe.

But in this case, when all things are considered, the cost of being prepared to deal with the consequences of this storm probably far outweigh the impact of this event. One probably good consequence is that now that people have seen the impact, they should take seriously warnings to stay home next time. Of course, as my Good fellow Owl points out, a lot of the problem in Atlanta is that the city simply is not designed to handle its regular traffic in an efficient manner, so any complication takes things beyond the pale.

There were no warnings to stay home in Birmingham.

Everybody was already at work/school when the "light dusting" turned into a sheet of ice.

Atlanta is a ***** when it comes to traffic. I used to make that drive every spring vacationing in Marco.

(02-01-2014 07:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Buying enough plows and salt trucks and salt to have made a difference would have been a huge expenditure that would sit idle and useless except in this situation, which happens how often? Is that a reasonable use of resources?

There are situations where the expenditure of resources to deal with a rare event is justified by the potential consequences should that event occur. If we had been as well prepared to deal with a deep water oil well blowout as are the North Sea countries, the impact of Macondo would have been much less severe.

But in this case, when all things are considered, the cost of being prepared to deal with the consequences of this storm probably far outweigh the impact of this event. One probably good consequence is that now that people have seen the impact, they should take seriously warnings to stay home next time. Of course, as my Good fellow Owl points out, a lot of the problem in Atlanta is that the city simply is not designed to handle its regular traffic in an efficient manner, so any complication takes things beyond the pale.

In the past Atlanta has been lambasted for shutting down as soon as the first snowflake is sighted.
Now the city is being criticized for not taking the warnings of “a light dusting“ seriously.

But it’s what we Americans do… we make great effort to find fault in every situation.

Government failure?

Fix it with some more government!

James Spann, the meteorologist at ABC 33/40 in Birmingham, wrote a blog entry accepting responsibility for the botched forecast at alabamawx.com. (It will probably be on the third page).

Just think it's wrong to make those poor walking dead have to
trudge through those two inches of snow and ice. It's hard for
them to get up if they slip.

(02-02-2014 12:05 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Just think it's wrong to make those poor walking dead have to
trudge through those two inches of snow and ice. It's hard for
them to get up if they slip.

like this?

(02-02-2014 12:48 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 12:05 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Just think it's wrong to make those poor walking dead have to
trudge through those two inches of snow and ice. It's hard for
them to get up if they slip.

like this?

Owwww, that is good.
The Walking Dead on Ice....
tickets available.

(02-01-2014 07:16 AM)AngryAphid Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 02:25 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:20 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:06 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's what you do. It may sound complicated but we've been doing it up North for awhile. You can follow what we have done for decades as an example. Like a blueprint. You tax the populace for a couple of trucks. You buy a big metal thing you put on the front of the truck called a plow. You move the three inches of snow off the road with the metal contraption. You can then go from road to road safely.

So that's feasible for an area that gets snow once every 10 years?

I honestly don't even think they really need plows. Just a few trucks that can spread salt. Given that there will be little snow and mainly ice and relatively warm temps, salt may actually be enough. Just get a few spreaders for some state/city dump trucks.

A couple of salt trucks for one of the most populous metro area in the nation?

I said a few not a couple. 30-40 so salt trucks(dump trucks with salt spreaders) with a salt storage area would probably be sufficient if there isn't a need to plow. Given that it will only be a couple of inches and warm enough that the salt will work, plows aren't going to be very important so no need to go crazy. I think Chicago has 378ish trucks when all are deployed. Atlanta would only need a fraction since they wouldn't be plowing, just spreading salt. All in all, I think that the whole state would need no more than 150-and that is being VERY generous. Probably more like 100.

(02-02-2014 02:36 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 07:16 AM)AngryAphid Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 02:25 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:20 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:06 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's what you do. It may sound complicated but we've been doing it up North for awhile. You can follow what we have done for decades as an example. Like a blueprint. You tax the populace for a couple of trucks. You buy a big metal thing you put on the front of the truck called a plow. You move the three inches of snow off the road with the metal contraption. You can then go from road to road safely.

So that's feasible for an area that gets snow once every 10 years?

I honestly don't even think they really need plows. Just a few trucks that can spread salt. Given that there will be little snow and mainly ice and relatively warm temps, salt may actually be enough. Just get a few spreaders for some state/city dump trucks.

A couple of salt trucks for one of the most populous metro area in the nation?

I said a few not a couple. 30-40 so salt trucks(dump trucks with salt spreaders) with a salt storage area would probably be sufficient if there isn't a need to plow. Given that it will only be a couple of inches and warm enough that the salt will work, plows aren't going to be very important so no need to go crazy. I think Chicago has 378ish trucks when all are deployed. Atlanta would only need a fraction since they wouldn't be plowing, just spreading salt. All in all, I think that the whole state would need no more than 150-and that is being VERY generous. Probably more like 100.

The Atlanta area probably has thousands of street miles. 100 trucks could not cover that much area.