Do away with all shollys, play for love of game, like they do in the ivy

(01-28-2014 03:18 PM)memphisike Wrote:  Do away with all shollys, play for love of game, like they do in the ivy

That's where it's going. Greed has been taking its toll on the golden goose for too long and eventually going to force big time collegiate sports off campus' and into the private sector.

(01-28-2014 01:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

$150,000 + of education free of charge.

The BCS TV contract is 500 million/year. You are quoting 37,500 per year cost for a student athlete. There are 126 FBS teams, each with a max of 85 scholarships. That huge gift they get for education, for all the FBS players, is 401,625,000. That means the BCS contract covers the cost of everything, while excluding all the national conference TV deals, local TV deals, merchandising, ticket sales, radio deals, advertising money, gobs of alumni donation based on sports, and everything else, with 100,000,000 to spare.

Yeah, the players get a ton of money except for the extra, god knows how much, 5-10 billion dollars floating around? Per year. God almighty, we must protect the schools in this situation and not the greedy athletes

(01-28-2014 01:24 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  Everything about high-level college athletics has been driven by money for years now--TV, realignment, salaries, etc.

Is anyone really surprised that the players are affected by that? Or can blame them?

I think much of the fan opposition to players receiving money is that fans invest so much in the idea of the student-athlete as somehow above the fray of an increasingly money-grubbing business, i.e., a nice p.r. front that fans can believe in. And they don't want that final illusion smashed.

Having said that, I'm not particularly a supporter of paying players.

Agree completely. People want to believe college athletics is about school pride and they're attacking the athletes for shattering the last bastion of that with a move from amateurism. The institutions of higher learning have been gouging everyone for years with this crap.

(01-28-2014 01:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:24 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  The problem with paying players is two fold. First, only the elite players get paid and only the elite schools can afford this. This creates an even bigger separation of power. Secondly, the NCAA will lose its non profit status thus increasing the tax burden which will also be shifted to the schools in some fashion. This will cause even further separation and force a lot of athletic programs to close or drop sports.

I feel like the best deserve to get paid and I don't think the "$150,000 of free education" is a valid argument when several of these elite players couldn't give two shtts about a college degree.

It is only 20 out of 4,100 players that get drafted in the 1st round every year, so there is no justification to disband the NCAA and lose tax exempt status for them.

Quote:the NCAA will lose its non profit status thus increasing the tax burden which will also be shifted to the schools in some fashion. This will cause even further separation and force a lot of athletic programs to close or drop sports.

Most programs operate in the red as it is. If they have to pay players and pay taxes, they will be out of business. It won't cause separation; it isn't doable.

all that money being paid in tv contracts, ticket sales, etc etc is going somewhere. It's creative accounting. Don't believe for a second schools aren't making gobs of money

Perhaps I'm missing something (which wouldn't be the first time), but why would paying college athletes for their services (over and above tuition and room and board) cause the NCAA to "lose its non profit status?" I'm not sure I follow the reasoning there. I'm not sure an organization's non-profit status (per IRS regulations/laws) depends on whether that organization decides to pay it's employees. Churches are non-profits. Hell, most hospitals are as well (and you should see the amount of money some hospitals make - it would make college football look like amateurs). Those organizations pay their employees and some rather well. So I could be missing something and welcome any correction.

Further, at least with football, the NCAA makes nothing off of TV revenue, which has been the biggest (if not only) moving force behind the realignment craze the past few years. Speaking of which, I predicted that the most recent and obscene money grab by universities shamelessly discarding years of traditions and rivalries to cash in on the TV $ pool created by cable television bundling would have unforeseen consequences like what is occurring at Northwestern U. Once the mask was removed by "institutions of higher learning" and that whole sordid drama played out on a national scale, it surprises me very little that the athletes (without which there would be no gigantic TV deal) have wised up on the whole deal. It's laughable that Big College U will go into court (presumably before the NLRB) and argue that college athletics and the high-minded and lofty goals of educating young "student-athletes" will somehow be tarnished should they have to <gasp> pay those responsible for putting billions of dollars into their grubby hands, which is exactly what they'll argue, and again, it will be laughable. As long as Big College U maintained the façade that "it's all about the kids and their education," they were somewhat protected at least from a public perception standpoint. But that ship has already set sail.

As for the union deal, I'm no labor attorney, but as I understand, the strength and breadth of a union depends on how many members you can sign up. A union has more influence and impact the larger it gets. It'll be interesting to see whether this is an isolated deal, in which case it will be a blip and nothing else, or whether this spreads. People have a statutory and constitutional right to assemble. Labor laws have been in place for more than a century to ensure that, if workers or other like minded folk want to organize and leverage their collective rights, they are entitled to do just that.

(01-28-2014 04:52 PM)jimmyjuju Wrote:  Perhaps I'm missing something (which wouldn't be the first time), but why would paying college athletes for their services (over and above tuition and room and board) cause the NCAA to "lose its non profit status?" I'm not sure I follow the reasoning there. I'm not sure an organization's non-profit status (per IRS regulations/laws) depends on whether that organization decides to pay it's employees. Churches are non-profits. Hell, most hospitals are as well (and you should see the amount of money some hospitals make - it would make college football look like amateurs). Those organizations pay their employees and some rather well. So I could be missing something and welcome any correction.

Further, at least with football, the NCAA makes nothing off of TV revenue, which has been the biggest (if not only) moving force behind the realignment craze the past few years. Speaking of which, I predicted that the most recent and obscene money grab by universities shamelessly discarding years of traditions and rivalries to cash in on the TV $ pool created by cable television bundling would have unforeseen consequences like what is occurring at Northwestern U. Once the mask was removed by "institutions of higher learning" and that whole sordid drama played out on a national scale, it surprises me very little that the athletes (without which there would be no gigantic TV deal) have wised up on the whole deal. It's laughable that Big College U will go into court (presumably before the NLRB) and argue that college athletics and the high-minded and lofty goals of educating young "student-athletes" will somehow be tarnished should they have to <gasp> pay those responsible for putting billions of dollars into their grubby hands, which is exactly what they'll argue, and again, it will be laughable. As long as Big College U maintained the façade that "it's all about the kids and their education," they were somewhat protected at least from a public perception standpoint. But that ship has already set sail.

As for the union deal, I'm no labor attorney, but as I understand, the strength and breadth of a union depends on how many members you can sign up. A union has more influence and impact the larger it gets. It'll be interesting to see whether this is an isolated deal, in which case it will be a blip and nothing else, or whether this spreads. People have a statutory and constitutional right to assemble. Labor laws have been in place for more than a century to ensure that, if workers or other like minded folk want to organize and leverage their collective rights, they are entitled to do just that.

First, there will be a big battle over whether they are "workers". If they were to pass that hurdle, then the NCAA will have some big issues.

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

Really? And you know this how? Vast majority? Really? I was dang grateful for getting a ton for doing something so trivial…….as a sport. But , but, but, BS!!

How much did Zach Curlin make?

(01-28-2014 04:19 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

$150,000 + of education free of charge.

The BCS TV contract is 500 million/year. You are quoting 37,500 per year cost for a student athlete. There are 126 FBS teams, each with a max of 85 scholarships. That huge gift they get for education, for all the FBS players, is 401,625,000. That means the BCS contract covers the cost of everything, while excluding all the national conference TV deals, local TV deals, merchandising, ticket sales, radio deals, advertising money, gobs of alumni donation based on sports, and everything else, with 100,000,000 to spare.

Yeah, the players get a ton of money except for the extra, god knows how much, 5-10 billion dollars floating around? Per year. God almighty, we must protect the schools in this situation and not the greedy athletes

please don't tell me you're that clueless. The BCS contract doesn't cover ANYTHING in relastion to the schools themselves. It only covers broadcasting and such. How do you think everything else is paid for? The coaches & assistants salaries, the recruiting costs, the stadium costs, the facilities costs, the maintenance costs, etc...

Everyone always talks about how "greedy" the system is, but the truth is the greed is on the outside. Nearly every single school is strapped for cash with sports. The money is all in the TV and ads and media. But here's the kicker, those entities have no contract or dealings with the players themselves so they have no liability to them. The only thing that would happen is kids may get paid some, making it even that much harder for the schools, while the people who have been making the money all along keep doing so.

There are no easy answers. Both sides have decent arguments. It'll eventually be settled, one way or the other. Not sure why it is stirring up so much emotion. I played varsity golf without a scholarship, as a walk-on, and worked my way up to #3 on the team.

I was just thrilled to get free golf balls, lol. Times are changing, for sure. If you pay football players, you're gonna have to pay everybody.

3A, it is changing faster than we think....But yes it'll work itself out one way or the other.....Wait til you see the new video and announcement for the State of the Arts Facilities....Work should start on the NEW IPF for FB and New BB practice Facility around June....WOW is all that needs to be said.....We Will Get Better....Changes Are Coming.....And again look for a Ganon Baker Type Trainer for Next S&C Coach to work with our Players....One Dream, One Team, Memphis....All for one, One for all, All for Memphis....The World Is Ours Memphis....Including a Two story Coaches Office....

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

OK let's do away with scholarship and pay them $1,000 a week during season. Then they can pay tuition, housing, boarding, books,travel cost to and from games. Let them pay exactly what every other student on campus pays.

(01-28-2014 04:19 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

$150,000 + of education free of charge.

The BCS TV contract is 500 million/year. You are quoting 37,500 per year cost for a student athlete. There are 126 FBS teams, each with a max of 85 scholarships. That huge gift they get for education, for all the FBS players, is 401,625,000. That means the BCS contract covers the cost of everything, while excluding all the national conference TV deals, local TV deals, merchandising, ticket sales, radio deals, advertising money, gobs of alumni donation based on sports, and everything else, with 100,000,000 to spare.

Yeah, the players get a ton of money except for the extra, god knows how much, 5-10 billion dollars floating around? Per year. God almighty, we must protect the schools in this situation and not the greedy athletes

You seem to forget that the money also goes to cover the cost of every other sport on campus. Half of which the schools are required by law to provide.

(01-28-2014 08:18 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 04:19 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

$150,000 + of education free of charge.

The BCS TV contract is 500 million/year. You are quoting 37,500 per year cost for a student athlete. There are 126 FBS teams, each with a max of 85 scholarships. That huge gift they get for education, for all the FBS players, is 401,625,000. That means the BCS contract covers the cost of everything, while excluding all the national conference TV deals, local TV deals, merchandising, ticket sales, radio deals, advertising money, gobs of alumni donation based on sports, and everything else, with 100,000,000 to spare.

Yeah, the players get a ton of money except for the extra, god knows how much, 5-10 billion dollars floating around? Per year. God almighty, we must protect the schools in this situation and not the greedy athletes

You seem to forget that the money also goes to cover the cost of every other sport on campus. Half of which the schools are required by law to provide.

title ix is stupid also if that makes you feel better.

(01-28-2014 04:19 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

$150,000 + of education free of charge.

The BCS TV contract is 500 million/year. You are quoting 37,500 per year cost for a student athlete. There are 126 FBS teams, each with a max of 85 scholarships. That huge gift they get for education, for all the FBS players, is 401,625,000. That means the BCS contract covers the cost of everything, while excluding all the national conference TV deals, local TV deals, merchandising, ticket sales, radio deals, advertising money, gobs of alumni donation based on sports, and everything else, with 100,000,000 to spare.

Yeah, the players get a ton of money except for the extra, god knows how much, 5-10 billion dollars floating around? Per year. God almighty, we must protect the schools in this situation and not the greedy athletes

Remove General Fund transfers and there are maybe 15-20 athletic programs that actually break even or are profitable. Beyond that, Title IX will force schools to also pay female athletes in equivalent amounts to the male athletes. That is simply impossible. Now, they might be able to slide around Title XI by allowing athletes to make money of TV commercials and autograph sells, but then that just opens bidding wars by the elite schools biggest boosters.

(01-28-2014 01:24 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  The problem with paying players is two fold. First, only the elite players get paid and only the elite schools can afford this. This creates an even bigger separation of power. Secondly, the NCAA will lose its non profit status thus increasing the tax burden which will also be shifted to the schools in some fashion. This will cause even further separation and force a lot of athletic programs to close or drop sports.

I feel like the best deserve to get paid and I don't think the "$150,000 of free education" is a valid argument when several of these elite players couldn't give two shtts about a college degree.

I do not like the idea of paying athletes, as they already receive a fair compensation IMO (tuition, books, dorms, meal plans, access to elite coaching, elite trainers, special tutors, and so on). However, the NBA, NFL, and MLB are all non-profit organizations. The individual teams are taxed. However, simply paying players would not all of a sudden make colleges profit seeking companies. They already have big payrolls with coaches.

(01-28-2014 04:22 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:24 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  The problem with paying players is two fold. First, only the elite players get paid and only the elite schools can afford this. This creates an even bigger separation of power. Secondly, the NCAA will lose its non profit status thus increasing the tax burden which will also be shifted to the schools in some fashion. This will cause even further separation and force a lot of athletic programs to close or drop sports.

I feel like the best deserve to get paid and I don't think the "$150,000 of free education" is a valid argument when several of these elite players couldn't give two shtts about a college degree.

It is only 20 out of 4,100 players that get drafted in the 1st round every year, so there is no justification to disband the NCAA and lose tax exempt status for them.

Quote:the NCAA will lose its non profit status thus increasing the tax burden which will also be shifted to the schools in some fashion. This will cause even further separation and force a lot of athletic programs to close or drop sports.

Most programs operate in the red as it is. If they have to pay players and pay taxes, they will be out of business. It won't cause separation; it isn't doable.

all that money being paid in tv contracts, ticket sales, etc etc is going somewhere. It's creative accounting. Don't believe for a second schools aren't making gobs of money

Your 3 consecutive posts are crazy. Do you have rabies? Do you understand any of the arguments being presented? (rhetorical question).

(01-28-2014 08:55 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 04:19 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:06 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote:  "The "System", as is, has worked for years"

Yep, its worked damn well for the media, sports writers, colleges with budgets in the tens of millions and coaches with million dollar contracts. Not so well for the vast majority who play the sports for tuition.

$150,000 + of education free of charge.

The BCS TV contract is 500 million/year. You are quoting 37,500 per year cost for a student athlete. There are 126 FBS teams, each with a max of 85 scholarships. That huge gift they get for education, for all the FBS players, is 401,625,000. That means the BCS contract covers the cost of everything, while excluding all the national conference TV deals, local TV deals, merchandising, ticket sales, radio deals, advertising money, gobs of alumni donation based on sports, and everything else, with 100,000,000 to spare.

Yeah, the players get a ton of money except for the extra, god knows how much, 5-10 billion dollars floating around? Per year. God almighty, we must protect the schools in this situation and not the greedy athletes

Remove General Fund transfers and there are maybe 15-20 athletic programs that actually break even or are profitable. Beyond that, Title IX will force schools to also pay female athletes in equivalent amounts to the male athletes. That is simply impossible. Now, they might be able to slide around Title XI by allowing athletes to make money of TV commercials and autograph sells, but then that just opens bidding wars by the elite schools biggest boosters.

Even if 2 dozen or so schools had the revenue to pay everyone; the loss of tax exempt status would be a killer.

someone alot smarter than any of us is going to find a way to pay only football and men's basketball players and still fall in the law of Title IX. I bet it happens in the next 5 years too.