(01-12-2014 03:26 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Saying the NHL has passed the NBA in popularity based on attendance alone is like saying East Carolina football has passed that of the Miami Hurricanes.

The NHL has a smaller, but more loyal, fan base. A much higher % of their fans are season ticket holders. But when it comes to viewership, the NBA has a definitive edge.

A more interesting debate would be which sport is more popular worldwide. There are many professional leagues of both Hockey and Basketball overseas... NBA and NHL aside, which sport captures a wider audience?

That's easy, the NBA is the second most watched product behind soccer world wide

Since attendance numbers are useless because of ticket giveaways, a different look at the valuations for each franchise by Forbes for 2013.

Hockey compares favorably at the top half of the list, but has 10 franchises valued lower than the lowest NBA franchise (Bucks).

The NHL is also heavily weighted by Canadian franchises.

Sorry for the formatting, didn't want to spend too much time on it.

Rank Current Value ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%)
1 New York Knicks 1,100 41
2Los Angeles Lakers1,000 11
3Chicago Bulls 800 33
4Boston Celtics 730 51
5Dallas Mavericks 685 38
6Miami Heat 625 37
7Houston Rockets 568 25
8Golden State Warriors555 23
9Brooklyn Nets 530 48
10San Antonio Spurs527 26
11Sacramento Kings525 75
12Oklahoma City Thunder 475 36
13Phoenix Suns 474 20
14Orlando Magic 470 22
15Portland Trail Blazers457 24
16Cleveland Cavaliers434 32
17Utah Jazz 432 29
18Los Angeles Clippers430 33
19Denver Nuggets 427 35
20Philadelphia 76ers418 33
21Toronto Raptors 405 6
22Detroit Pistons 400 20
23Washington Wizards397 21
24Indiana Pacers 383 35
25Memphis Grizzlies377 40
26Minnesota Timberwolves364 34
27New Orleans Hornets340 19
28Atlanta Hawks 316 17
29Charlotte Bobcats315 14
30Milwaukee Bucks 312 16



RANK TEAM CURRENT VALUE (Millions) % CHANGE
1 Toronto Maple Leafs 1,150 15
2 New York Rangers 850 13
3 Montreal Canadiens 775 35
4 Vancouver Canucks 700 105
5 Chicago Blackhawks 625 79
6 Boston Bruins 600 72
7 Philadelphia Flyers 500 49
8 Pittsburgh Penguins 480 67
9 Detroit Red Wings 470 36
10 Los Angeles Kings 450 63
11 Calgary Flames 420 71
12 Washington Capitals 414 66
13 San Jose Sharks 405 82
14 Edmonton Oilers 400 78
15 Ottawa Senators 380 73
16 Winnipeg Jets 340 70
17 Colorado Avalanche 337 60
18 Dallas Stars 333 39
19 Minnesota Wild 330 51
20 New Jersey Devils 320 56
21 Anaheim Ducks 300 56
22 Buffalo Sabres 250 43
23 Florida Panthers 240 41
24 Nashville Predators 205 23
25 Phoenix Coyotes 200 49
26 New York Islanders 195 26
27 Carolina Hurricanes 187 15
28 St. Louis Blues 185 42
29 Tampa Bay Lightning 180 3
30 Columbus Blue Jackets 175 21

Something else to keep in mind is the NBA's full implementation of its new revenue sharing plan, while it won't create NFL style parity, it does guarantee that each team breaks even or makes a small profit which over time will increase the lowest revenue teams value

(01-12-2014 03:35 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 03:02 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  ^ and the NHL also just signed 2 huge TV deals, one in USA and one in Canada. The next deal will also be larger.


Also they average $10 more per ticket thus so far this year alone over only half the season they have pulled in nearly $100 million more than NBA just in ticket sales because they demand a premium to NBA tickets. Thats so far this year mid-season.

Again, game over. I'm here all night.

Dude stop!! The NHL's contact with NBC is for 200 million per year(that's less than the power conferences) the NBA has TV deals with over 90 outlets worldwide with a total audience of over 300 million. All of these deals are up for renewal within the next two years . The NBA will end up bringing in more revenue from China alone than the entire NHL national TV deal( which still has 7 years left on it)

Quick google search will show you that the Canadian deal with the NHL in Canada with Rodgers is $400 million. That is in addition to the $200 million from NBC.

(01-12-2014 05:00 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 03:35 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 03:02 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  ^ and the NHL also just signed 2 huge TV deals, one in USA and one in Canada. The next deal will also be larger.


Also they average $10 more per ticket thus so far this year alone over only half the season they have pulled in nearly $100 million more than NBA just in ticket sales because they demand a premium to NBA tickets. Thats so far this year mid-season.

Again, game over. I'm here all night.

Dude stop!! The NHL's contact with NBC is for 200 million per year(that's less than the power conferences) the NBA has TV deals with over 90 outlets worldwide with a total audience of over 300 million. All of these deals are up for renewal within the next two years . The NBA will end up bringing in more revenue from China alone than the entire NHL national TV deal( which still has 7 years left on it)

Quick google search will show you that the Canadian deal with the NHL in Canada with Rodgers is $400 million. That is in addition to the $200 million from NBC.

And that's still several million dollars less than the NBA's deal with ESPN & Turner sports. These deals are expected to go for well over 2 billion by themselves & doesn't include secondary deals with countries like China (which well on it's way to being the largest consumer of all things NBA). Media properties are just now scratching the surface of monetizing digital revenue ( another potential windfall for the upcoming TV negotiations ).

(01-12-2014 05:00 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 03:35 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 03:02 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  ^ and the NHL also just signed 2 huge TV deals, one in USA and one in Canada. The next deal will also be larger.


Also they average $10 more per ticket thus so far this year alone over only half the season they have pulled in nearly $100 million more than NBA just in ticket sales because they demand a premium to NBA tickets. Thats so far this year mid-season.

Again, game over. I'm here all night.

Dude stop!! The NHL's contact with NBC is for 200 million per year(that's less than the power conferences) the NBA has TV deals with over 90 outlets worldwide with a total audience of over 300 million. All of these deals are up for renewal within the next two years . The NBA will end up bringing in more revenue from China alone than the entire NHL national TV deal( which still has 7 years left on it)

Quick google search will show you that the Canadian deal with the NHL in Canada with Rodgers is $400 million. That is in addition to the $200 million from NBC.

Good Observation.

(01-12-2014 11:17 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(01-11-2014 11:32 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(01-11-2014 03:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You can't even give away hockey tickets in many locations. To suggest that is has surpassed NBA basketball in popularity is taking a vacation from reality.

"Hockey fans richer, smarter than MLB, NBA and NFL fans. All in all, hockey fans are a well-educated, well-heeled, Internet-savvy bunch, no matter what the perception."

This pretty much clears up the debate from this thread.

Despite an article proving that NHL attendance is larger than NBA attendance from California to Boston to Florida - somehow the NHL can't give away tickets...

http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/06/06/hockey-...-nfl-fans/

.

Here are the national attendance figures. Soak them in.

Major League Baseball USA/Canada- 74,026,895
National Football League - 17,124,389
National Basketball Association USA/Can - 17,100,861
National Hockey League USA/Can - 12,758,849

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_att...ts_leagues

Let's recap: Hockey is for northerners and Canadians.

Thank you. I'm here all night.

2012-13 was a lockout year for the NHL, so totals are not a valid comparison.

On that note, though, why are NHL teams doing so bad financially if the sport is so popular? Bottom line, they sell tickets but don't garner TV audiences. The fan base is not broad. As Craig Carton tells Boomer Esiason when he starts talking Rangers on WFAN - "Nobody wants to hear about hockey."

(01-12-2014 03:37 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 03:26 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Saying the NHL has passed the NBA in popularity based on attendance alone is like saying East Carolina football has passed that of the Miami Hurricanes.

The NHL has a smaller, but more loyal, fan base. A much higher % of their fans are season ticket holders. But when it comes to viewership, the NBA has a definitive edge.

A more interesting debate would be which sport is more popular worldwide. There are many professional leagues of both Hockey and Basketball overseas... NBA and NHL aside, which sport captures a wider audience?

That's easy, the NBA is the second most watched product behind soccer world wide

Well, that was quick, lol.

Surprised it's ahead of Formula 1 racing.

Looking at similar periods, NHL and NBA have both had their struggling franchises.

What I find fascinating is that in most measures NBA is doing extremely well and doing so with a significant number of smaller TV market franchises.

It is clear that in this period of time, there is the NFL and there is everything else.

Both the NBA and NHL had long stretches where TV revenue was not a significant portion of operating revenue. For the NHL that is more recent and it is part reflected in ticket prices, they have a hard core fan base willing to pony up.

I tend to think the NHL is closer to its ceiling than any of the major sports leagues than anyone other than baseball.

If I were a billionaire wanting a sports investment, my preference would be NBA followed by MLS. NFL is going to be strong for at least the next couple decades but is more like investing in a utility than a growth stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_profe...a#Revenues

Revenues by League:

NFL: $11 billion
MLB: $7 billion
NBA: $5 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion

http://www.statisticbrain.com/ncaa-colle...tatistics/

NCAA: $10.6 billion

(01-12-2014 07:18 PM)orangefan Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_profe...a#Revenues

Revenues by League:

NFL: $11 billion
MLB: $7 billion
NBA: $5 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion

http://www.statisticbrain.com/ncaa-colle...tatistics/

NCAA: $10.6 billion

It's hard to make up the 2 billion dollar difference in revenue. Now I do believe the NBA has maxed out in the US & North America but has enormous potential overseas that neither the NHL or MLB can match.

(01-12-2014 07:18 PM)orangefan Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_profe...a#Revenues

Revenues by League:

NFL: $11 billion
MLB: $7 billion
NBA: $5 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion

http://www.statisticbrain.com/ncaa-colle...tatistics/

NCAA: $10.6 billion

If I'm reading the article correctly those figures are for national deals only and doesn't include what is there in the local TV packages.

If that is correct then MLB, NBA, and NHL revenues are understated to some degree.

(01-12-2014 02:33 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 11:17 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(01-11-2014 11:32 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(01-11-2014 03:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You can't even give away hockey tickets in many locations. To suggest that is has surpassed NBA basketball in popularity is taking a vacation from reality.

"Hockey fans richer, smarter than MLB, NBA and NFL fans. All in all, hockey fans are a well-educated, well-heeled, Internet-savvy bunch, no matter what the perception."

This pretty much clears up the debate from this thread.

Despite an article proving that NHL attendance is larger than NBA attendance from California to Boston to Florida - somehow the NHL can't give away tickets...

http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/06/06/hockey-...-nfl-fans/

.

Here are the national attendance figures. Soak them in.

Major League Baseball USA/Canada- 74,026,895
National Football League - 17,124,389
National Basketball Association USA/Can - 17,100,861
National Hockey League USA/Can - 12,758,849

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_att...ts_leagues

Let's recap: Hockey is for northerners and Canadians.

Thank you. I'm here all night.

And that is old data. NHL growing fast and overtook the Declining and stale NBA this season. Refer to chart of "current" data

Game over.

LOL so you are saying Hockey picked up 9 million viewers in the last year and a half? Ha ha ha

(01-12-2014 07:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 07:18 PM)orangefan Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_profe...a#Revenues

Revenues by League:

NFL: $11 billion
MLB: $7 billion
NBA: $5 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion

http://www.statisticbrain.com/ncaa-colle...tatistics/

NCAA: $10.6 billion

If I'm reading the article correctly those figures are for national deals only and doesn't include what is there in the local TV packages.

If that is correct then MLB, NBA, and NHL revenues are understated to some degree.

Those are USA and Canadian figures - NHL included.

(01-12-2014 08:27 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 07:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 07:18 PM)orangefan Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_profe...a#Revenues

Revenues by League:

NFL: $11 billion
MLB: $7 billion
NBA: $5 billion
NHL: $3.3 billion

http://www.statisticbrain.com/ncaa-colle...tatistics/

NCAA: $10.6 billion

If I'm reading the article correctly those figures are for national deals only and doesn't include what is there in the local TV packages.

If that is correct then MLB, NBA, and NHL revenues are understated to some degree.

Those are USA and Canadian figures - NHL included.

Looking again. The TV revenue figure does not include local TV deals but it should accounted for in total revenue.

I would like to see someone list the number of Universities have Hockey and the number that have basketball. Then list the number of NHL teams vs the number of NBA teams.

(01-12-2014 08:51 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I would like to see someone list the number of Universities have Hockey and the number that have basketball. Then list the number of NHL teams vs the number of NBA teams.

There are about 130 hockey teams between Division I and III. Division I hoops is at around 350.

(01-12-2014 08:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 08:51 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I would like to see someone list the number of Universities have Hockey and the number that have basketball. Then list the number of NHL teams vs the number of NBA teams.

There are about 130 hockey teams between Division I and III. Division I hoops is at around 350.

Mind blowing that anyone can even suggest that hockey is passing basketball. I seriously have never in my life seen a high school that did not have a basketball team. I have never seen a high school that has a hockey team.

That's the main reason hockey is probably never going to truly surpass the popularity of basketball. Most kids grow up playing football and basketball not hockey. Those talented kids go into college to play basketball or football. Universities that have hockey usually have to resort to recruiting outside the country the even fill their rosters. And after college there is a steady stream of American players who are ready to play at the professional level. I don't watch much hockey and honestly, I will admit I have never watched a hockey game on TV. But I would be willing to wager that many players in the NHL have to come from other countries.

I'm not saying that there are no foreign NBA players but teams do not have to out of the country to be competitive and this is not "MERICA baby!" close minded thinking. These star players have connections to the community they grew up in and the teams they played for. Foreign players in any team or country are usually there just for the money.

(01-12-2014 09:06 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 08:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 08:51 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I would like to see someone list the number of Universities have Hockey and the number that have basketball. Then list the number of NHL teams vs the number of NBA teams.

There are about 130 hockey teams between Division I and III. Division I hoops is at around 350.

Mind blowing that anyone can even suggest that hockey is passing basketball. I seriously have never in my life seen a high school that did not have a basketball team. I have never seen a high school that has a hockey team.

That's the main reason hockey is probably never going to truly surpass the popularity of basketball. Most kids grow up playing football and basketball not hockey. Those talented kids go into college to play basketball or football. Universities that have hockey usually have to resort to recruiting outside the country the even fill their rosters. And after college there is a steady stream of American players who are ready to play at the professional level. I don't watch much hockey and honestly, I will admit I have never watched a hockey game on TV. But I would be willing to wager that many players in the NHL have to come from other countries.

I'm not saying that there are no foreign NBA players but teams do not have to out of the country to be competitive and this is not "MERICA baby!" close minded thinking. These star players have connections to the community they grew up in and the teams they played for. Foreign players in any team or country are usually there just for the money.

Add the 300 million who play basketball in China & the 30 million who watch NBA games on average etc etc & you start to get the picture

(01-11-2014 10:26 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  To all you round-baller dinosaurs who still think hockey is a niche sport, while the NBA continues to decline in interest, the NHL is beating the NBA in every category. Sell-outs, attendance, ticket price, growth, revenue.

"The surging popularity of the National Hockey League in the U.S. can’t be denied.

The revenue confirms it. The ratings confirm it. The buzz around star players and successful teams, nationally and locally, confirms it.

More impressive: The NHL traditionally has higher ticket prices than the NBA. For example, in the 2012-13 season the NHL had an average ticket price of $61.01 which topped that of the NBA ($50.99)"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-d...--nhl.html



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GHetr rid of the stupid condoned fighting and it would go even higher. Hockey is a great game of skill, agility, strength, and toughness. You don't see players drop the gloves on the NFL. Hockey needs to wise up.