(01-08-2014 02:44 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  We've lost the war on poverty.

Sort of depends on your perspective.

http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/min...ressivism/

Quote:by 1995, the huge expansion of the U.S. economy, globalization, and sweeping breakthroughs in technology radically transformed the prior idea of “poverty,” as I had remembered it in 1960 (we of the rural middle class a half-century ago all used the privy farm toilet when outdoors around the house, and shared a party phone line with eight other families). Today’s poor struggle with drugs, crime, shattered families, and malaise, but not outdoor privies, the lack of air conditioning and heating, dusty dirt roads, or a denial of access to a phone or TV. Deprivation now is almost defined as the absence of a free electronic tablet at school.

Urban riots do not break out over bread, but more likely about the nth model of Air Jordan sneakers. When I go to a local Quest lab for a blood draw, the waiting room is full of poor who suffer terribly from diabetes and kidney failure brought about by carbohydrate- and sugar-driven obesity, not malnourishment. Too many calories are the scourge of America. There are no stormings of the local Wal-Mart to spread beans and rice around; occasional flash mobbing of electronics stores nationwide is prompted by desire for smart phones and pads.

I have seen holiday shoppers in my environs shout and push over big-screen TV holiday sales, not rant over who gets the last ham hock at the meat counter. The knockout game is not driven by poverty, but by boredom, a poverty of the mind,

The war on poverty was a failure, yet even with the opposition, capitalism triumphed. Only then the elites changed the rules.

The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47 million people as of the most recent figures available in 2013. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because: "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."

(01-08-2014 03:40 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47 million people as of the most recent figures available in 2013. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because: "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."

THAT IS BEAUTIFUL.

PERIOD.

We need capitalism, but we need it to be responsible with it and that will require cultural change, IMO.

As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

(01-08-2014 04:01 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

Let's start with who this "establishment" is?

(01-08-2014 04:01 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

Small businesses are more truly democratic and egalitarian; quite honestly power brokers for both political parties delight in wielding power and controlling others. They aren't big fans of equality.

The US Gubernment owns 30% of our land.

Allow the poor to work a farm on public land and sell products for profit. If they are able to work and won't, they can starve or beg. That's NOT uncompassionate.

(01-08-2014 04:04 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:01 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

Let's start with who this "establishment" is?

I define it as those who are in power or with particular influence over those in power.

(01-08-2014 03:50 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 03:40 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 47 million people as of the most recent figures available in 2013. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because: "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."

THAT IS BEAUTIFUL.

PERIOD.

The irony is amazing, isn't it.

(01-08-2014 04:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:04 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:01 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

Let's start with who this "establishment" is?

I define it as those who are in power or with particular influence over those in power.

Okay fair enough. But they acquire and maintain that power by doing something right, at least initially. Some nefariously, but let's go with most folks being generally honest.

So, a LOT of small business people would like nothing more than to be able to "ally" with those in positions to help them in one way or another. Politicians, also for the most part, benefit from these alliances as it will redound to the benefit of their constituents, presumably.

So, who does that leave out? What other entity wielding power stands in the way of these alliances being successful or even desirable?

I'd argue it's the unmanageable and self-perpetuating bureaucracies at ALL levels of government that work seemingly night and day creating barrier after barrier to exactly the kind of small business development that you and Washington are speaking of.

When was the last time a regulation or stupid law was actually repealed? You ever worked in a Restaurant at any management level? Some other small business, like a health club? Anything involving alcohol or cigarettes or children?

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I think the ideals you posted as stated by Booker T. Washington are absolutely spot on. Problem is the artificial obstacles pumped out every... single... day keep even the most hard working and well meaning people from being able to pursue these small businesses in many cases. You can't open a wig shop in downtown Richmond these days without tens of thousands of pages of "compliance". Simply mastering a skill doesn't address that part in the least.


We have a long way to go.

(01-08-2014 04:08 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:01 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

Small businesses are more truly democratic and egalitarian; quite honestly power brokers for both political parties delight in wielding power and controlling others. They aren't big fans of equality.

I follow you.

(01-08-2014 04:25 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:09 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:04 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 04:01 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As I've taken from reading Booker T Washington, the best way to combat poverty is to educate for a field, get them to master that skill, and use that skill to build business in their areas.

More small business and politicians allied with them could solve a lot of problems. Question is, why can't we get the establishment to ally with them now?

Let's start with who this "establishment" is?

I define it as those who are in power or with particular influence over those in power.

Okay fair enough. But they acquire and maintain that power by doing something right, at least initially. Some nefariously, but let's go with most folks being generally honest.

So, a LOT of small business people would like nothing more than to be able to "ally" with those in positions to help them in one way or another. Politicians, also for the most part, benefit from these alliances as it will redound to the benefit of their constituents, presumably.

So, who does that leave out? What other entity wielding power stands in the way of these alliances being successful or even desirable?

I'd argue it's the unmanageable and self-perpetuating bureaucracies at ALL levels of government that work seemingly night and day creating barrier after barrier to exactly the kind of small business development that you and Washington are speaking of.

When was the last time a regulation or stupid law was actually repealed? You ever worked in a Restaurant at any management level? Some other small business, like a health club? Anything involving alcohol or cigarettes or children?

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I think the ideals you posted as stated by Booker T. Washington are absolutely spot on. Problem is the artificial obstacles pumped out every... single... day keep even the most hard working and well meaning people from being able to pursue these small businesses in many cases. You can't open a wig shop in downtown Richmond these days without tens of thousands of pages of "compliance". Simply mastering a skill doesn't address that part in the least.


We have a long way to go.

I always lump the bureaucracy in with people with influence over those in power.

I would hope allying with small business could cut some of the bureaucracy. It'll take a new breed of politician but on the local and state levels it won't be as difficult as it seems, IMO.