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MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #41
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-30-2013 11:45 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I wasn't the one saying Western was clearly the stronger program I just pointed out the facts and let them speak for them self that the person was wrong


It really would be nice if there were more SBC fans that didn't think having a conference with 7 out of 10 schools with a 33% or lower winning % as strong. If we want to talk about selective who was it that probably looked at 5 or 6 RPI sites and pulled the one that showed the SBC in the best light...even if that RPI was totally different from the others? Yeah that's what I thought



What was selective? I did a 13 year span and gave the option to do less or more and lets do that...


Last 6 years 4 NCAA bids and a sweet 16 along with 2 other wins

Last year NCAA bid and 20 wins

last 2 years 2 ncaa bids and 1 tourney win

last 5 years 3 NCAA tourney bids and 2 ncaa wins


last 20 years 9 NCAA bids and 8 NCAA wins along with 2 sweet 16s

What is selective about that? covers short, recent, and past

now lets look at wins

Last 13 years...10 out of 13 with 20 or more wins

20
16
16
21
25
29
22
23
22
15
24
28
24

from 1996-2000 were bad year...welll bad by Western's standard
11
13
10
12
13

'92,'93,'94,'95
27
20
26
21

You can spin it all you want. But it is clear that NMSU has been the better program the last few years.

2006/07 - NMSU 25-9 WAC regular season runner-ups, WAC tourney champs, NCAA tourney appearance. WKU 22-11, SBC regular season runner-ups.

2007/08 - NMSU 21-14, WAC regular season champs, WAC tourney finalists. WKU 29-7, SBC regular season and tourney champs, NCAA sweet sixteen.

2008/09 - NMSU 17-15. WKU 25-8, SBC regular season and tourney champs, round of 32.

2009/10 - NMSU 22-12, WAC regular season runner-ups, WAC tourney champs, NCAA appearance. WKU 21-13.

2010/11 - NMSU 16-17. WKU 16-16.

2011/12 - NMSU 26-9, WAC regular season runner-ups, WAC tourney champs, NCAA appearance. WKU 16-19, SBC tourney champs, NCAA play-in win.

2012/13 - NMSU 24-11, WAC tourney champs, NCAA appearance. WKU 20-15, NCAA appearance.

In that time frame NMSU is 151-87. WKU is 149-89. In the last four years, it is NMSU 88-49. WKU is 73-63.

WKU is a more traditioned program, no question. But now, NMSU is a more quality program. During this time frame, the WAC was a better conference with the possible exception of last year. And they still have more wins. You have more tourney wins (can you stop holding the play-in game as a tourney win, not even the SLC does that), but NMSU has been getting seeds where they can, not play-in or 16 seeds.

This isn't a knock to WKU, just the facts as I see them.
12-31-2013 09:18 AM
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AppinVA Online
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Post: #42
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
[Image: 341273b1e878f6c311d19731574fbc68_zps51ffb82a.jpg]

Whoa. You weren't kidding about the stage.
12-31-2013 09:19 AM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #43
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-31-2013 08:20 AM)dahbeed Wrote:  
(12-31-2013 07:06 AM)panama Wrote:  Boom because of his entire post. You are the worst offender of a long list of WKU posters. Maybe two of the lot are sane. You went to a lot of trouble to post that GSU MBB has sucked over time. Thanks because we were not aware of that over the last couple of decades we have been following them. The point of the FUTAS' post is that WKU posters (for the most part) start out with a preconceived position and then fit their research to that position.

" The great WKU MBB program is too great for the SBC and is not a MidMajor. The Big East invite is in the mail. Fear us mere mortals."

Sorry but you will not be missed. You are a approaching the L word's level of annoyance. Please do call us when you have a sub 50 RPI so we can commence fear mode in the crappy unworthy SBC.

P.S. Thanks for the picture. It tied up your pointless soliloquy nicely.

name the boatload of posters posting in the manner you describe.

gunz just refuted mr. microphone's numbers with numbers.

mr. microphone's school doesn't play football and has a niche hoops team and doesn't like it that there is a team with actually a better history. with a coach that has better history.

please show me the egregious posts from western basketball fans other than maybe one guy that carries a negative rating.

your fans have shown that they care about hoops. spend the last 20 years where the rest of the conference, short 1 or 2 teams doesn't give a crap about it and schedules money game after money game on the road to help pay for their football.

nobody has said we never have down years. we have had them. they usually end up with the coach fired. then we usually bounce back.

boom.

See, there you go again with the false characterizations and generalities. I support the SBC and as far as I am concerned, you count until July. I fully recognize your history. However, your recent history isn't that great. Your very recent history is a mediocre result with a good conference tourney run.

I don't resent that and I don't hold it against you. However, I also don't just lay down and say you are the greatest ever and we should just forfeit when the mighty 'Toppers are on the floor.

When it comes to your basketball program (and football to a lesser extent), the brow-beating that comes rivals the brow-beating that Cajun fans give if they think they aren't given the proper due.

I can see how other posters lump entire posters from one school together as differentiating between individual posters isn't easy. Just like there are Cajun fans who are level-headed, there are WKU posters who are too. However, there are also a lot who make excuses for their programs sub-par performance and then say our history is without excuse or reason.

However, due to there isn't exactly a high number of UTA posters here and I would hope that there isn't a lot of confusion on where we stand. We generally support the conference and recognize we were what we were. A different era is here. I don't quite know what you mean by "niche" hoops team. We play the same sport you do. And I don't normally talk smack, but if UTA doesn't split in men's bball this year, I will be shocked.
12-31-2013 09:31 AM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #44
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-31-2013 09:19 AM)AppinVA Wrote:  [Image: 341273b1e878f6c311d19731574fbc68_zps51ffb82a.jpg]

Whoa. You weren't kidding about the stage.

Exactly. It was a great home-court advantage. However, try to convince high school recruits to play there for four-years. And our current coach did it. Now he has the best venue in the SBC to recruit. I say that based on others opinions, but have never visited Troy's.

EDIT: Texas Hall was the product of 1960's thinking about combining uses. Back then, baseball and football combinations were common, but UTA needed a basketball gym and performance hall. We could get both so they combined it. Texas Hall's bleachers on the opposite side of the theater seating has been removed and it is now back to being a pure theater.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2013 09:36 AM by FoUTASportscaster.)
12-31-2013 09:34 AM
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Rojogrande Offline
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Post: #45
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-31-2013 09:18 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(12-30-2013 11:45 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  I wasn't the one saying Western was clearly the stronger program I just pointed out the facts and let them speak for them self that the person was wrong


It really would be nice if there were more SBC fans that didn't think having a conference with 7 out of 10 schools with a 33% or lower winning % as strong. If we want to talk about selective who was it that probably looked at 5 or 6 RPI sites and pulled the one that showed the SBC in the best light...even if that RPI was totally different from the others? Yeah that's what I thought



What was selective? I did a 13 year span and gave the option to do less or more and lets do that...


Last 6 years 4 NCAA bids and a sweet 16 along with 2 other wins

Last year NCAA bid and 20 wins

last 2 years 2 ncaa bids and 1 tourney win

last 5 years 3 NCAA tourney bids and 2 ncaa wins


last 20 years 9 NCAA bids and 8 NCAA wins along with 2 sweet 16s

What is selective about that? covers short, recent, and past

now lets look at wins

Last 13 years...10 out of 13 with 20 or more wins

20
16
16
21
25
29
22
23
22
15
24
28
24

from 1996-2000 were bad year...welll bad by Western's standard
11
13
10
12
13

'92,'93,'94,'95
27
20
26
21

You can spin it all you want. But it is clear that NMSU has been the better program the last few years.

2006/07 - NMSU 25-9 WAC regular season runner-ups, WAC tourney champs, NCAA tourney appearance. WKU 22-11, SBC regular season runner-ups.

2007/08 - NMSU 21-14, WAC regular season champs, WAC tourney finalists. WKU 29-7, SBC regular season and tourney champs, NCAA sweet sixteen.

2008/09 - NMSU 17-15. WKU 25-8, SBC regular season and tourney champs, round of 32.

2009/10 - NMSU 22-12, WAC regular season runner-ups, WAC tourney champs, NCAA appearance. WKU 21-13.

2010/11 - NMSU 16-17. WKU 16-16.

2011/12 - NMSU 26-9, WAC regular season runner-ups, WAC tourney champs, NCAA appearance. WKU 16-19, SBC tourney champs, NCAA play-in win.

2012/13 - NMSU 24-11, WAC tourney champs, NCAA appearance. WKU 20-15, NCAA appearance.

In that time frame NMSU is 151-87. WKU is 149-89. In the last four years, it is NMSU 88-49. WKU is 73-63.

WKU is a more traditioned program, no question. But now, NMSU is a more quality program. During this time frame, the WAC was a better conference with the possible exception of last year. And they still have more wins. You have more tourney wins (can you stop holding the play-in game as a tourney win, not even the SLC does that), but NMSU has been getting seeds where they can, not play-in or 16 seeds.

This isn't a knock to WKU, just the facts as I see them.


I'm not usually one to get in on pointless arguments. Those numbers you posted are almost dead even in wins and losses. No WKU fan is going to argue that NMSU isn't a quality basketball program. The ultimate goal for quality basketball programs is winning the conference and winning in the NCAA tournament. WKU has won more NCAA games no matter how far you go back. I'm sure most Aggie fans will agree that it doesn't mean a whole lot to just win 20 games every season. You want to win come tourney time.

As to the first round game that you refer to as a play in game. It is no longer considered as a play in game and wasn't at the time it was played. It's still counts as an NCAA win seeing as WKU got NCAA units for the victory. Which the rest of the conference also cashed in on.
12-31-2013 10:39 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #46
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
Just so we know what my numbers are it was in respond to the below post

(12-30-2013 03:51 PM)slycat Wrote:  
(12-30-2013 03:41 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(12-30-2013 03:24 PM)slycat Wrote:  Regardless of the source used. CUSA is not as strong overall in basketball as the SBC this year.

Take Western out and it changes but what is obvious to me is that if you think a conference with 7 out of 10 teams with winning % of 33% or worse is stronger than a conference where 5 schools have a winning% of 66% or higher and 8 schools with a 54% or better winning% then your idead of what's "stronger" probably isn't what most and in most...everyone but a SBC fan would think is "stronger"

Add NMSU and you get a much stronger team.



With that history has to play into it because any talk of adding NMST would have to be next year they play in the WAC this season. Like others have said no WKU is putting down the NMST program because it's a program that puts pride in it's team and we can tell that by what?.....

history and no not a two year run.

Any school can get hot and win for a couple years...get a player others looked over, add a transfer that had problems at another school, or hell, hire a coach with a talented son that wants to play for dad. Either or all of those can get you a decent 2 year run but usually it falls apart after that.....

that is unless a school has a history behind it to show they are a good program instead of a trending school and most times that all it takes to get them back to where they where...winning year after year. When I say winning I'm not talking about being a game over .500 I had to clarify that because to a lot of people, or maybe just a few, on this board, being a game over .500 is winning.

For Western and I'm assuming for NMST fans, winning is 20+ game seasons and 18 or 19 in the down years. Again HISTORY points to the schools that do that more years than not and not just trending because they got lucky with a getting a player or two for a span of a couple years. I understand why some of you hate looking at history because it's just not there, so all you have is to hang your hat on the couple years your team hit lighting in a bottle. That might be a 18 win season for some or a invite to the CIBT, WXYZ, what ever the post season tourney is called.

That's not Western, so yes we will point out history to show that rare losing season is just that...RARE. Or that 16,17, win season is just that...RARE. And that includes when a fan of another program said...this team or that team, in this case NMST is clearly the stronger team...

history plays a part in it and as history has shown in the past Western always follows a down spurt and in spurt I'm talking 2 to 3 years at most with 20+ win seasons and trips to the NCAA. So as I pointed out past history shows this and so does recent history....

after two 16 win seasons, Western had a 20 win season and well on it's way to another 20+ win season. As the old saying goes, "history usually repeats itself". So no one was down playing the NMST history, it stands on it's own facts, but any way you look at it NMST is not "clearly" the stronger team....

unless you are basing it on 10 or so games this season and up till then I would agree with you....

Western wasn't very good at all
12-31-2013 12:15 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #47
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
There is no denying Western Kentucky has great basketball tradition.

The reason for my first post was just to point out that some of the years used to evaluate NMSU's performance was during a time when we were trying to recover from a seven year probation (two scholarship reduction and not allowed to recruit JC players). And, although Lou Henson was a great coach at one time, during early 2000s, his failing health caused him to pass a lot of his off-court duties to his assistants and made his program only a shell of what it once was.

Every program has its' highs and lows. And, NCAA tournament has a lot to do with match-ups and seedings. NMSU went to one Final Four and two Sweet Sixteens in the late 60s and early 70s. All our NCAA Tournament runs were ended by John Wooden's UCLA. There is no knowing if those teams could have won more games if we didn't have to face UCLA when we did.

In 1990 NMSU had what I believe to be NMSU strongest team since our 1970 Final Four team. That year we beat the eventual National Champions UNLV during the regular season. However, once the NCAA Tournament was announced, NMSU got an emotionally charged Loyola Marymount in the first round; with their run until you drop (literally) offense. This was the only pairing that pitted two nationally ranked teams against each other (can you say, sacrificial lamb). Needless to say we were knocked out in the first round. The following year with a relatively unknown JUCO loaded roster, NMSU finally made it to the Sweet Sixteen. Although, we did get a fortunate NCAA tournament draw. We took out DePaul in the first round then beat a 13-seed Southwest Louisiana (sound familiar?) in the second round before losing to our nemesis UCLA in the Sweet Sixteen.

Unfortunately, all that fun in the 90's came with a cost. Starting with the Sweet Sixteen team, NMSU's coach (Neil McCarthy, already in his 6th season) decided to start using a unmonitored online correspondance school route to get JUCO recruits eligible early (falsifying grades). He was trying to keep up with Tarkanian's UNLV teams. It is unclear how many players were involved but the ones in question, in the resulting NCAA investigation, were bench players on the Sweet Sixteen team. Nevertheless, the Sweet Sixteen was vacated.

After Neil McCarthy left in 1997, NMSU was left on probation...no JUCO recruiting, only 11 scholarships allowed. However, in 1999, Lou Henson was fortunate enough to get help from a dying Northeastern Illinois basketball program. NMSU was the recipient of five NEIU transfers as their D1 basketball program was being discontinued. With those five transfers and NMSU's returning player, Henson was able to produce a NCAA tournament team. Unfortunately, we met Kentucky in the first round.

However, since then NMSU has only been to the NCAA tournament four time. Once with Theus in 2007. And, three times with Menzies 2010, 2012, and 2013. Interesting enough, the time NMSU was in the Sun Belt (2000-2005) our then Aggies were not as strong as the were in the 90's and not as strong as the are now. So, SBC didn't really experience the NMSU program at their best.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2013 01:19 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
12-31-2013 01:13 PM
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AppinVA Online
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Post: #48
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-31-2013 09:34 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(12-31-2013 09:19 AM)AppinVA Wrote:  [Image: 341273b1e878f6c311d19731574fbc68_zps51ffb82a.jpg]

Whoa. You weren't kidding about the stage.

Exactly. It was a great home-court advantage. However, try to convince high school recruits to play there for four-years. And our current coach did it. Now he has the best venue in the SBC to recruit. I say that based on others opinions, but have never visited Troy's.

EDIT: Texas Hall was the product of 1960's thinking about combining uses. Back then, baseball and football combinations were common, but UTA needed a basketball gym and performance hall. We could get both so they combined it. Texas Hall's bleachers on the opposite side of the theater seating has been removed and it is now back to being a pure theater.

I do wonder how many husbands have told their wives they were taking their wives to the theatre, only to take them to a basketball game. I bet it did throw off the depth perception for most visiting teams. The closest thing I can relate it to, is East Tennessee's basketball set-up in the Mini-dump. I don't know if it's changed since they nuked the football team, but no attempt was made at making it an intimate setting. Yes, it threw off the opponent, but I don't think it did much for the home fans, either.
12-31-2013 05:40 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #49
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-31-2013 09:34 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(12-31-2013 09:19 AM)AppinVA Wrote:  [Image: 341273b1e878f6c311d19731574fbc68_zps51ffb82a.jpg]

Whoa. You weren't kidding about the stage.

Exactly. It was a great home-court advantage. However, try to convince high school recruits to play there for four-years. And our current coach did it. Now he has the best venue in the SBC to recruit. I say that based on others opinions, but have never visited Troy's.

EDIT: Texas Hall was the product of 1960's thinking about combining uses. Back then, baseball and football combinations were common, but UTA needed a basketball gym and performance hall. We could get both so they combined it. Texas Hall's bleachers on the opposite side of the theater seating has been removed and it is now back to being a pure theater.

How many players fell off the stage trying to keep a loose ball inbounds?
12-31-2013 07:44 PM
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Franko Offline
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Post: #50
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-30-2013 03:41 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(12-30-2013 03:24 PM)slycat Wrote:  Regardless of the source used. CUSA is not as strong overall in basketball as the SBC this year.

Take Western out and it changes but what is obvious to me is that if you think a conference with 7 out of 10 teams with winning % of 33% or worse is stronger than a conference where 5 schools have a winning% of 66% or higher and 8 schools with a 54% or better winning% then your idead of what's "stronger" probably isn't what most and in most...everyone but a SBC fan would think is "stronger"
.
Regardless of what all the RPI numbers show, winning percentage and all that junk let simply look at the best OOC wins with the OOC just about over.
SBC, best USM, La Tech, Wright State
CUSA, best Kansas State, Michigan, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Washington State and North Carolina.
.
Just based on that who do you think is the best basketball league? 04-jawdrop
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2014 03:26 PM by Franko.)
01-01-2014 03:25 PM
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Post: #51
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(01-01-2014 03:25 PM)Franko Wrote:  
(12-30-2013 03:41 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(12-30-2013 03:24 PM)slycat Wrote:  Regardless of the source used. CUSA is not as strong overall in basketball as the SBC this year.

Take Western out and it changes but what is obvious to me is that if you think a conference with 7 out of 10 teams with winning % of 33% or worse is stronger than a conference where 5 schools have a winning% of 66% or higher and 8 schools with a 54% or better winning% then your idead of what's "stronger" probably isn't what most and in most...everyone but a SBC fan would think is "stronger"
.
Regardless of what all the RPI numbers show, winning percentage and all that junk let simply look at the best OOC wins with the OOC just about over.
SBC, best USM, La Tech, Wright State
CUSA, best Kansas State, Michigan, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Washington State and North Carolina.
.
Just based on that who do you think is the best basketball league? 04-jawdrop

Those are some great OOC wins for cusa...
01-01-2014 03:29 PM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #52
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(12-31-2013 07:44 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(12-31-2013 09:34 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(12-31-2013 09:19 AM)AppinVA Wrote:  [Image: 341273b1e878f6c311d19731574fbc68_zps51ffb82a.jpg]

Whoa. You weren't kidding about the stage.

Exactly. It was a great home-court advantage. However, try to convince high school recruits to play there for four-years. And our current coach did it. Now he has the best venue in the SBC to recruit. I say that based on others opinions, but have never visited Troy's.

EDIT: Texas Hall was the product of 1960's thinking about combining uses. Back then, baseball and football combinations were common, but UTA needed a basketball gym and performance hall. We could get both so they combined it. Texas Hall's bleachers on the opposite side of the theater seating has been removed and it is now back to being a pure theater.

How many players fell off the stage trying to keep a loose ball inbounds?

That was one of the beautiful things about Texas Hall and why it was such a home-court advantage. The student "section" was at the stage when I was in undergrad. We'd catch our guys, but the other team knew we wouldn't extend the same courtesy. While I can only recall one person falling off the stage, the sample size for opponents is quite a bit smaller than other places.
01-02-2014 08:05 AM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #53
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
The SBC was close to some good OOC wins this year too. UTA should have had UT-Austin and almost had OU. I know USA almost had a couple of schools, including the Longhorns. Several of the losses to C-USA teams were close. I don't know if the conference as a whole is in a down year, overperforming or are right where it will be for the future. I do know that the number of DI wins could easily be higher if a few more calls or bounces go our way. Speaking for UTA, we are a program that is following a linear progression upwards. Texas State hired one of the best coaches out there at any level (though if he turns them around, how much longer til he is out). Troy has a new arena to recruit to. ULM is about to shake their APR woes. Bringing in Missouri State or New Mexico State further solidifies what we are.

As I said in another thread, I'll give this year a mulligan until conference realignment settles and all conferences can find their groove.
01-02-2014 08:11 AM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: MBB: Number of teams with RPI greater than 200 in G5
(01-02-2014 08:11 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  The SBC was close to some good OOC wins this year too. UTA should have had UT-Austin and almost had OU. I know USA almost had a couple of schools, including the Longhorns. Several of the losses to C-USA teams were close. I don't know if the conference as a whole is in a down year, overperforming or are right where it will be for the future. I do know that the number of DI wins could easily be higher if a few more calls or bounces go our way. Speaking for UTA, we are a program that is following a linear progression upwards. Texas State hired one of the best coaches out there at any level (though if he turns them around, how much longer til he is out). Troy has a new arena to recruit to. ULM is about to shake their APR woes. Bringing in Missouri State or New Mexico State further solidifies what we are.

As I said in another thread, I'll give this year a mulligan until conference realignment settles and all conferences can find their groove.

Those arguing SB is better than CUSA next season are clueless...Losing WKU and adding basketball powerhouses APp St. and Georgia Southern loses any arguements that are saying SB is better than CUSA in basketball down the road...SB maybe better this season but CUSA already has doubled the quaility wins than SB schools already this season.....SB only cares about football and has been that way since early 2000's.....SB used to be a great basketball conf. but now just middle of the pack.....CUSA has fan bases that are very much into basketball and have shown that with some of the coaches in CUSA..
01-02-2014 09:30 AM
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