(12-26-2013 07:24 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 06:43 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 05:05 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 03:27 PM)bulldogg Wrote:  The best credential Everett Withers has going for him is his association with Urban Meyer, who DOES NOT hire or recruit individuals of questionable character.

I don't want to poke my nose in the middle of this debate. Whithers is good hire, that's all that should matter. But I found the quoted portion hilarious. Have you paid any attention to the off-field issues in Gainesville and Columbus while Meyer was the head man?

Meyer had 25 different players under him get arrested at Florida (31 total arrests) and 8 already at tOSU.

This. Urban Meyer runs anything but a clean program. There were 121 players listed on the 2008 Gators Championship team. 41 of those players were either arrested in college, have been arrested since, or both. FORTY ONE. That is over one third of the entire team. 16 of those players were on the 2-deep roster and 9 of them were starters. Not even The U in the 80s was producing numbers like that.

That is not necessarily an indictment on all of his assistants, but Urban Meyer is definitely not someone to highlight when talking about character. He's about as scummy as they come.

I never question a coaches character based on the young adults he offers scholarships. There are not many athletes in the country that can play for Florida at a high level. And most of these kids have never been away from their parents so their record is clean. Athletes between the ages of 17-21 are going to have some issues.

Would you questions the admissions departments character based on the number of drug and alcohol violations that occur at JMU. Young adult behavior is very complicated and unpredictable. Now for felony offenders or repeat misdemeanor offenders i would then question his judgment on why he keeps them on the team.

You can't be serious. There are many other programs that play at a level that is at Florida's level or higher and they didn't have the problems that Florida did. Are some of these 17-21 year old athletes going to have some issues? Of course. Most big time football programs experience this kind of thing. Heck, we've had some players get in trouble with the law. But to have 25 different players arrested 31 different times is absurd. Why don't other schools that recruit that caliber of athlete have this level of problem?

And your comparison of a head coach recruiting 25 of the best high school football players in the country to the JMU admissions department is totally apples to oranges.

(12-26-2013 07:36 PM)lknspider Wrote:  The most disturbing concern with Coach withers is taking a major pay cut to become a head coach. It just doesn't normally happen that way.

Typical tick myopic outlook. Can only see the $$ signs, and not the individual's desire to be a HC at the age of 50.

(12-26-2013 07:36 PM)lknspider Wrote:  Interesting discussion and points of view. Recall Brian Kelly resigning from U of Cincinnati in 2009 to become Notre Dame HC. He left a 12-0 team bound for the Sugar Bowl and did not coach the bowl game vs U of Fl. This year, Dave Clawson resigned from Bowling Green to go to Wake Forest and he is not coaching the Bowling Green team tonight vs U of Pitt. His coordinators have been working for Bowling Green and splitting time at Wake the past three weeks (not sure that was a good idea).

The most disturbing concern with Coach withers is taking a major pay cut to become a head coach. It just doesn't normally happen that way. And not having personal contact immediately with JMU team leaders just doesn't add up. When professional people change jobs, their heart, mind and pocketbooks should be in the new position. Good luck! W's and L's will determine if he chose the right path.

If we're headed to FBS (which this hire points to), then the $325,000 salary is probably null and void.

If we're headed to FBS, it will likely happen in the next 4 months.

The fact that there is NO official contract yet also seems to point to an FBS move.

(12-26-2013 08:21 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 07:24 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 06:43 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 05:05 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 03:27 PM)bulldogg Wrote:  The best credential Everett Withers has going for him is his association with Urban Meyer, who DOES NOT hire or recruit individuals of questionable character.

I don't want to poke my nose in the middle of this debate. Whithers is good hire, that's all that should matter. But I found the quoted portion hilarious. Have you paid any attention to the off-field issues in Gainesville and Columbus while Meyer was the head man?

Meyer had 25 different players under him get arrested at Florida (31 total arrests) and 8 already at tOSU.

This. Urban Meyer runs anything but a clean program. There were 121 players listed on the 2008 Gators Championship team. 41 of those players were either arrested in college, have been arrested since, or both. FORTY ONE. That is over one third of the entire team. 16 of those players were on the 2-deep roster and 9 of them were starters. Not even The U in the 80s was producing numbers like that.

That is not necessarily an indictment on all of his assistants, but Urban Meyer is definitely not someone to highlight when talking about character. He's about as scummy as they come.

I never question a coaches character based on the young adults he offers scholarships. There are not many athletes in the country that can play for Florida at a high level. And most of these kids have never been away from their parents so their record is clean. Athletes between the ages of 17-21 are going to have some issues.

Would you questions the admissions departments character based on the number of drug and alcohol violations that occur at JMU. Young adult behavior is very complicated and unpredictable. Now for felony offenders or repeat misdemeanor offenders i would then question his judgment on why he keeps them on the team.

You can't be serious. There are many other programs that play at a level that is at Florida's level or higher and they didn't have the problems that Florida did. Are some of these 17-21 year old athletes going to have some issues? Of course. Most big time football programs experience this kind of thing. Heck, we've had some players get in trouble with the law. But to have 25 different players arrested 31 different times is absurd. Why don't other schools that recruit that caliber of athlete have this level of problem?

And your comparison of a head coach recruiting 25 of the best high school football players in the country to the JMU admissions department is totally apples to oranges.

But do they have the number of National titles that Florida have in the last 15 years. And it's hard to predict future behavior. Juvenile records are sealed and most of these athletes just go to school, play football and go home. Athletes violate misdemeanors every weekend, whether you like it or not. And you also have to look at Florida's top recruiting areas.

And I compare it based on the fact that the only substantial things you know about these athletes are School work, athletic achievements, and home life. I would assume those three categories would be at the top.

(12-26-2013 09:12 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 08:21 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 07:24 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 06:43 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 05:05 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  I don't want to poke my nose in the middle of this debate. Whithers is good hire, that's all that should matter. But I found the quoted portion hilarious. Have you paid any attention to the off-field issues in Gainesville and Columbus while Meyer was the head man?

Meyer had 25 different players under him get arrested at Florida (31 total arrests) and 8 already at tOSU.

This. Urban Meyer runs anything but a clean program. There were 121 players listed on the 2008 Gators Championship team. 41 of those players were either arrested in college, have been arrested since, or both. FORTY ONE. That is over one third of the entire team. 16 of those players were on the 2-deep roster and 9 of them were starters. Not even The U in the 80s was producing numbers like that.

That is not necessarily an indictment on all of his assistants, but Urban Meyer is definitely not someone to highlight when talking about character. He's about as scummy as they come.

I never question a coaches character based on the young adults he offers scholarships. There are not many athletes in the country that can play for Florida at a high level. And most of these kids have never been away from their parents so their record is clean. Athletes between the ages of 17-21 are going to have some issues.

Would you questions the admissions departments character based on the number of drug and alcohol violations that occur at JMU. Young adult behavior is very complicated and unpredictable. Now for felony offenders or repeat misdemeanor offenders i would then question his judgment on why he keeps them on the team.

You can't be serious. There are many other programs that play at a level that is at Florida's level or higher and they didn't have the problems that Florida did. Are some of these 17-21 year old athletes going to have some issues? Of course. Most big time football programs experience this kind of thing. Heck, we've had some players get in trouble with the law. But to have 25 different players arrested 31 different times is absurd. Why don't other schools that recruit that caliber of athlete have this level of problem?

And your comparison of a head coach recruiting 25 of the best high school football players in the country to the JMU admissions department is totally apples to oranges.

But do they have the number of National titles that Florida have in the last 15 years. And it's hard to predict future behavior. Juvenile records are sealed and most of these athletes just go to school, play football and go home. Athletes violate misdemeanors every weekend, whether you like it or not. And you also have to look at Florida's top recruiting areas.

And I compare it based on the fact that the only substantial things you know about these athletes are School work, athletic achievements, and home life. I would assume those three categories would be at the top.

Haha yes they do. LSU has 2. Alabama has 3. USC has 2. Well...kind of...My point was that yes, these athletes are going to screw up and some will get arrested. But to have 25 different players arrested is a lot. I know that it isn't all on the coaching staff. The coaches can't babysit them and the players have to take responsibility for themselves. But there is something different about Urban Meyer coached teams. I'm not sure what it is. His teams at Florida and now OSU have gotten into trouble more often than other schools at that level.

For the most part I agree with you in that athletes are going to make mistakes because they really are only kids. But the amount of off the field trouble that Florida had under Urban Meyer is weird. It makes you wonder what is happening at his program compared to an Alabama or a USC or an LSU. Why are his players getting arrested so much more frequently than players at other schools?

(12-26-2013 10:57 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 09:12 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 08:21 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 07:24 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 06:43 PM)JMU2014 Wrote:  This. Urban Meyer runs anything but a clean program. There were 121 players listed on the 2008 Gators Championship team. 41 of those players were either arrested in college, have been arrested since, or both. FORTY ONE. That is over one third of the entire team. 16 of those players were on the 2-deep roster and 9 of them were starters. Not even The U in the 80s was producing numbers like that.

That is not necessarily an indictment on all of his assistants, but Urban Meyer is definitely not someone to highlight when talking about character. He's about as scummy as they come.

I never question a coaches character based on the young adults he offers scholarships. There are not many athletes in the country that can play for Florida at a high level. And most of these kids have never been away from their parents so their record is clean. Athletes between the ages of 17-21 are going to have some issues.

Would you questions the admissions departments character based on the number of drug and alcohol violations that occur at JMU. Young adult behavior is very complicated and unpredictable. Now for felony offenders or repeat misdemeanor offenders i would then question his judgment on why he keeps them on the team.

You can't be serious. There are many other programs that play at a level that is at Florida's level or higher and they didn't have the problems that Florida did. Are some of these 17-21 year old athletes going to have some issues? Of course. Most big time football programs experience this kind of thing. Heck, we've had some players get in trouble with the law. But to have 25 different players arrested 31 different times is absurd. Why don't other schools that recruit that caliber of athlete have this level of problem?

And your comparison of a head coach recruiting 25 of the best high school football players in the country to the JMU admissions department is totally apples to oranges.

But do they have the number of National titles that Florida have in the last 15 years. And it's hard to predict future behavior. Juvenile records are sealed and most of these athletes just go to school, play football and go home. Athletes violate misdemeanors every weekend, whether you like it or not. And you also have to look at Florida's top recruiting areas.

And I compare it based on the fact that the only substantial things you know about these athletes are School work, athletic achievements, and home life. I would assume those three categories would be at the top.

Haha yes they do. LSU has 2. Alabama has 3. USC has 2. Well...kind of...My point was that yes, these athletes are going to screw up and some will get arrested. But to have 25 different players arrested is a lot. I know that it isn't all on the coaching staff. The coaches can't babysit them and the players have to take responsibility for themselves. But there is something different about Urban Meyer coached teams. I'm not sure what it is. His teams at Florida and now OSU have gotten into trouble more often than other schools at that level.

For the most part I agree with you in that athletes are going to make mistakes because they really are only kids. But the amount of off the field trouble that Florida had under Urban Meyer is weird. It makes you wonder what is happening at his program compared to an Alabama or a USC or an LSU. Why are his players getting arrested so much more frequently than players at other schools?

There are very few schools that recruits the same tier of athletes that Florida does. FSU is one school and my favorite and they for sure have had their legal problems. You take your chances when a kid is very talented but makes bad choices. As a football coach is he recruiting the right kids( look at his record)..........yes. Do they come with baggage and imaturity .......yes.