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Is it St. Johns or Saint Johns and Cuse/St. Johns smack
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 04:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:33 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:11 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 03:20 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 03:14 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  No, the bottom is a commercial frame, and your university only licenses "St. John's" as its registered word mark.

Can you answer the question, does the salutation of your diploma have "St. John's" on the actual parchment? Yes or no? If you aren't an SJU grad, that is ok.

I just want to know if the St. John's University is so ignorant, as you put it, to put the wrong school (your words) on what are perhaps the most important documents that they produce.

Find something else from the school spelled that way.

There is nothing else more official than a University Degree. People hang these on the walls in their offices, in their homes, and you have to provide a copy of your degree in many cases for high level employment. Anyone who views those degrees will see that it says Saint Johns."" So it doesn't matter if Jerseys or newpapers or other media uses the term "St Johns." So whether a person uses "St Johns," or "Saint Johns," they would be correct, I would assume.

I would also assume that a person who has an actual "Saint Johns" degree would know that his degree says "Saint Johns" on it and therefore would not be going around telling folks who use the term "Saint Johns" that they are wrong.

More official than every single thing the school puts out to the public? Like the school seal, logo, everything they sell and everything on it's website?

Are you implying I didn't graduate from St. John's University?

I don't know if you did or didn't, and don't care really, LOL.
But if you know that your degree says Saint Johns, why would you be so demanding that folks use the term St Johns instead of Saint Johns and telling them they are wrong for doing so?

Because the school goes by and has gone by for a LOOOOOONG time St. John's University. They are wrong for calling us Saint John's. Go find any article in the ESPN archives calling us Saint John's. Go look through New York Post/Times/Daily News and find where they call us Saint John's.
12-18-2013 04:42 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 04:42 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:33 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:11 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 03:20 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Find something else from the school spelled that way.

There is nothing else more official than a University Degree. People hang these on the walls in their offices, in their homes, and you have to provide a copy of your degree in many cases for high level employment. Anyone who views those degrees will see that it says Saint Johns."" So it doesn't matter if Jerseys or newpapers or other media uses the term "St Johns." So whether a person uses "St Johns," or "Saint Johns," they would be correct, I would assume.

I would also assume that a person who has an actual "Saint Johns" degree would know that his degree says "Saint Johns" on it and therefore would not be going around telling folks who use the term "Saint Johns" that they are wrong.

More official than every single thing the school puts out to the public? Like the school seal, logo, everything they sell and everything on it's website?

Are you implying I didn't graduate from St. John's University?

I don't know if you did or didn't, and don't care really, LOL.
But if you know that your degree says Saint Johns, why would you be so demanding that folks use the term St Johns instead of Saint Johns and telling them they are wrong for doing so?

Because the school goes by and has gone by for a LOOOOOONG time St. John's University. They are wrong for calling us Saint John's. Go find any article in the ESPN archives calling us Saint John's. Go look through New York Post/Times/Daily News and find where they call us Saint John's.

Why would they be wrong if the school actually calls itself Saint Johns on its Degree? Couldn't you make a case for both being correct? I think so.
12-18-2013 05:13 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 04:41 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Hey, St. John's last week beat the "The Georgia Institute of Technology". I say we all refer to the Yellow Jackets as "The Georgia Institute of Technology" from now on... I mean, it's on their diplomas...!

Very good point. So would a person be wrong for referring to Georgia Tech as the Georgia Institute of Technology? Wouldn't both terms be correct? YES
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2013 05:18 PM by cuseroc.)
12-18-2013 05:15 PM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #44
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 05:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:41 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Hey, St. John's last week beat the "The Georgia Institute of Technology". I say we all refer to the Yellow Jackets as "The Georgia Institute of Technology" from now on... I mean, it's on their diplomas...!

Very good point. So would a person be wrong for referring to Georgia Tech as the Georgia Institute of Technology? Wouldn't both terms be correct? YES

A person could also refer to Syracuse's coach as "James Boeheim" and Duke's as "Michael Krzyzewski", and both would be correct, but since we're sports fans, and this is a sports message board, it wouldn't make sense to do that. So a person could do that, and they'd be correct as a person, but they'd sound like Richard Simmons or Martha Stewart... not a sports fan.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2013 05:31 PM by billyjack.)
12-18-2013 05:30 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #45
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 05:30 PM)billyjack Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 05:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:41 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Hey, St. John's last week beat the "The Georgia Institute of Technology". I say we all refer to the Yellow Jackets as "The Georgia Institute of Technology" from now on... I mean, it's on their diplomas...!

Very good point. So would a person be wrong for referring to Georgia Tech as the Georgia Institute of Technology? Wouldn't both terms be correct? YES

A person could also refer to Syracuse's coach as "James Boeheim" and Duke's as "Michael Krzyzewski", and both would be correct, but since we're sports fans, and this is a sports message board, it wouldn't make sense to do that. So a person could do that, and they'd be correct as a person, but they'd sound like Richard Simmons or Martha Stewart... not a sports fan.

John Wooden always called Kareem Abdul-Jabbar "Lewis". Pat Riley often calls Magic Johnson "Earvin". I hope you're not going to say they know nothing about basketball.
12-18-2013 06:01 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #46
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 03:29 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 01:10 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 12:59 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 12:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  1. It's St. John's not Saint John's. We shared a league for almost a decade, you should know better.
St. is an abbreviation for Saint. As a St. John's alum you should know this. So you were correcting him for nothing. Whenever you hear people speaking about the school, they say Saint John's. The abbreviation isn't an official thing, it's just easier to spell. New Yorkers are notoriously lazy about such things. Either way is technically correct.
No it's not correct. Saint John's is a school in minnesota. We only go by St. John's. We are not lazy it's the name of our school. It is not "technically correct".
So the TV announcer don't say SAINT John's when talking about the school? 04-jawdrop But you are lazy, just like the rest of NYC, and your excuse is a load of 01-rivals. Trying to differentiate between your school and a school that nobody on the face of the Earth outside of Minnesota knows is ludicrous.

From now on I will call the school ST John's. Screw the Saint. There are no saints in New York, just a bunch of lazy hypocrites.
Really Bit? The eat or be eaten city is full of lazy people? I guess lazy built all those sky scrapers huh? How many buildings are taller than 5 stories in all of WV? How about the subway system? Lazy people bild that too?

How many people are popping pills and sitting on their asses in WV?

Oh snap! WV and TN are lazier than NY! Wow!

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/americas...-worst/26/
Those skyscrapers were built mostly by native American steel workers, who were about the only ones who could walk the high steel without vertigo. I did the foundation on a couple of the more recent buildings, and I'm definitely not a New Yorker. Most of the construction people I worked with were from New Jersey, not New York. So I doubt those buildings were built by New Yorkers. They were built by people imported for one purpose, who and promptly left the city after the work was done.

And before you go off on West Virginia, the average age of your typical West Virginian is pretty close to retirement age. So those who sit on their butts have earned that right. Folks in Tennessee just like to eat. But you'll find more people down here doing physical labor than you will in NYC, and NYC has more people. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2013 06:34 PM by bitcruncher.)
12-18-2013 06:31 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
I can understand wanting to differentiate between St Johns and Saint Johns.

One is a proud athletic department with multiple national championships across several sports and the other is a private school with a has-been basketball program in a second rate conference.
12-18-2013 09:43 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
The school might usually type out St. and might prefer that's how they be put down for athletic events and that's fine, but St. stands for Saint, is pronounced the same, and thus typing either has to be considered correct.

Let's put this in perspective. The Big Ten types out ten, but no one is going to say it's wrong if you use Big 10. The University of Central Florida goes by UCF, but saying Central Florida isn't wrong (and that's actually a far bigger change than typing Saint instead of St.)

I'm not saying that the school can't or shouldn't be using St. on all its logo and stuff, but at the end of the day, it's still just an abbreviation and should always be able to be spelled out as well.
12-19-2013 01:12 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #49
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 05:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:41 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Hey, St. John's last week beat the "The Georgia Institute of Technology". I say we all refer to the Yellow Jackets as "The Georgia Institute of Technology" from now on... I mean, it's on their diplomas...!

Very good point. So would a person be wrong for referring to Georgia Tech as the Georgia Institute of Technology? Wouldn't both terms be correct? YES
Depends on context, doesn't it? If singing the "rambling wreck" song, "I'm a rambling wreck from The Georgia Institute of Technology, and a hell of an engineer" just doesn't scan as well.

If St. John's wants to market themselves that way, its fine by me. If UCF wants to go by their initials instead of Central Florida, I'm fine with that too. Just as long as you don't try to trick me into saying the name of that school up north, I don't want to have to wash my mouth out with soap.

And the subject line for the original post is just as untrue nine pages later as it was at the outset ~ the ACC playing one in five or one in three or even one in two tournaments at the Barclay's Center doesn't interfere with the Big Ten's ability to play in NYC every three or four years, to be more accessible to its substantial East Coast alumni bases.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2013 02:47 AM by BruceMcF.)
12-19-2013 02:45 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #50
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I can understand wanting to differentiate between St Johns and Saint Johns.

One is a proud athletic department with multiple national championships across several sports and the other is a private school with a has-been basketball program in a second rate conference.

04-bow
12-19-2013 10:48 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #51
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-19-2013 02:42 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Right, in ACC fantasy land, MSG was begging for the ACC, but you know, the ACC just wasn't into them. It had nothing to do with a 12 year Big East contract that is rock solid. Are you guys for real or are you just messin with us?

Big East Men's Basketball Tournament Sites:
2014: MSG.
2015: MSG.
2016: MSG.
2017: MSG.
2018: MSG.
2019: MSG.
2020: MSG.
2021: MSG.
2022: MSG.
2023: MSG.
2024: MSG.
2025: MSG.
2026: MSG.

In 2026:
Rick Pitino will turn 73.
Roy Williams will turn 75.
Mike Krzyzewski will turn 79.
Jim Boeheim will turn 82.

Meanwhile, every human sports fan over at least the last 60 years has referred to the school in Queens as "St. John's", the school in the top-10 in all time in wins, yet we're I guess supposed to nod our heads like dunces in agreement on the "Saint" thing.

At the same time, we have a site moderator pissing on fellow American citizens of one of the world's greatest cities, located in the greatest country in the world, the city that welcomed our ancestors as they fled hellholes around the world... and no one really has a problem with that...? ... wow, this site has gone completely off its rails...

It's fine Billyjack, we have our own site where we can actually discuss things without the BE haters and ACC trolls running around. What do you expect from a board that protects the ACC posters?
12-20-2013 10:14 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-19-2013 02:45 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 05:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:41 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Hey, St. John's last week beat the "The Georgia Institute of Technology". I say we all refer to the Yellow Jackets as "The Georgia Institute of Technology" from now on... I mean, it's on their diplomas...!

Very good point. So would a person be wrong for referring to Georgia Tech as the Georgia Institute of Technology? Wouldn't both terms be correct? YES
Depends on context, doesn't it? If singing the "rambling wreck" song, "I'm a rambling wreck from The Georgia Institute of Technology, and a hell of an engineer" just doesn't scan as well.

If St. John's wants to market themselves that way, its fine by me. If UCF wants to go by their initials instead of Central Florida, I'm fine with that too. Just as long as you don't try to trick me into saying the name of that school up north, I don't want to have to wash my mouth out with soap.

And the subject line for the original post is just as untrue nine pages later as it was at the outset ~ the ACC playing one in five or one in three or even one in two tournaments at the Barclay's Center doesn't interfere with the Big Ten's ability to play in NYC every three or four years, to be more accessible to its substantial East Coast alumni bases.

Want to market ourselves? What are you talking about? It's been St. not Saint for over 60 years! The only thing the school EVER puts out where Saint is spelled out is it's diploma. Thats it! The school does not sell or distribute anything else where saint is spelled out. The balls of people on this board to try and tell me, an alumni in good standing what my school is called is pathetic.
12-20-2013 10:31 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #53
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-18-2013 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I can understand wanting to differentiate between St Johns and Saint Johns.

One is a proud athletic department with multiple national championships across several sports and the other is a private school with a has-been basketball program in a second rate conference.

Hahahaha are you guys going to actually win a big time game anytime soon? How much hype can one school continue to get without actually accomplishing anything of substance? Where's that Tahj Boyd Heisman?

Oh and an ACC fan calling the Big East second rate is really funny. The record books still show that the Big East still has more BCS bowl wins than the ACC. hahahahaha
12-20-2013 10:34 AM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-20-2013 10:31 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  The balls of people on this board to try and tell me, an alumni in good standing what my school is called is pathetic.

It really wasn't an attempt to tell you how to spell it. Officially, you are correct that's how the athletic department spells it. People use variations of the way the schools types things all the time though and it's generally accepted and shouldn't be considered wrong. The Big Ten, never ever writes Big 10 or B10, and B1G is only for the logo, but people write all of those. Central Florida for sports uses UCF, but people call it both. Writing out Central Florida, B10, B1G, etc are not the official ways to write any of those, but no animosity is meant by typing different and there's really argument that it's wrong to type them. No offense is meant at all and I'll type St. going forward, but the abbreviation St. sounds the same and is completely interchangeable with the full word Saint in the English language and I just don't think writing Saint instead could be considered incorrect in anything besides official marketing and logo practice.
12-20-2013 11:12 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #55
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-20-2013 11:12 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  
(12-20-2013 10:31 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  The balls of people on this board to try and tell me, an alumni in good standing what my school is called is pathetic.

It really wasn't an attempt to tell you how to spell it. Officially, you are correct that's how the athletic department spells it. People use variations of the way the schools types things all the time though and it's generally accepted and shouldn't be considered wrong. The Big Ten, never ever writes Big 10 or B10, and B1G is only for the logo, but people write all of those. Central Florida for sports uses UCF, but people call it both. Writing out Central Florida, B10, B1G, etc are not the official ways to write any of those, but no animosity is meant by typing different and there's really argument that it's wrong to type them. No offense is meant at all and I'll type St. going forward, but the abbreviation St. sounds the same and is completely interchangeable with the full word Saint in the English language and I just don't think writing Saint instead could be considered incorrect in anything besides official marketing and logo practice.

It's not the athletic dept. It's the school crest, it's on everything the school distributes, it's on everything they sell. There is an entirely different school who spells out Saint. Our school in NYC is called St. John's, not Saint John's. Yes, there is a difference. You or anyone else calling us Saint John's comes across as ignorant of collegiate sports and our school in general.
12-20-2013 11:31 AM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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Post: #56
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-20-2013 10:31 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-19-2013 02:45 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 05:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 04:41 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Hey, St. John's last week beat the "The Georgia Institute of Technology". I say we all refer to the Yellow Jackets as "The Georgia Institute of Technology" from now on... I mean, it's on their diplomas...!

Very good point. So would a person be wrong for referring to Georgia Tech as the Georgia Institute of Technology? Wouldn't both terms be correct? YES
Depends on context, doesn't it? If singing the "rambling wreck" song, "I'm a rambling wreck from The Georgia Institute of Technology, and a hell of an engineer" just doesn't scan as well.

If St. John's wants to market themselves that way, its fine by me. If UCF wants to go by their initials instead of Central Florida, I'm fine with that too. Just as long as you don't try to trick me into saying the name of that school up north, I don't want to have to wash my mouth out with soap.

And the subject line for the original post is just as untrue nine pages later as it was at the outset ~ the ACC playing one in five or one in three or even one in two tournaments at the Barclay's Center doesn't interfere with the Big Ten's ability to play in NYC every three or four years, to be more accessible to its substantial East Coast alumni bases.

Want to market ourselves? What are you talking about? It's been St. not Saint for over 60 years! The only thing the school EVER puts out where Saint is spelled out is it's diploma. Thats it! The school does not sell or distribute anything else where saint is spelled out. The balls of people on this board to try and tell me, an alumni in good standing what my school is called is pathetic.

Actually according to the Middle States Commission on Higher Education, the primary accrediting body for colleges and universities in the mid-Atlantic, St. John's University was officially Saint John's University prior to 1999.

"St. John's University [Accredited]
Formerly:
Saint John's University (1998 and prior years)"
source: http://www.msche.org/institutions_view.a...tution=448

That roughly fits with the timeline of the university not filing for "St. John's University" as a registered trademark until December 14, 1995 (approved June 1996) and "St. John's University Red Storm" on February 20, 1998 (approved Nov 1999).

It would be interesting to see the school's legal charters.

Interestingly, you can buy Arthur Ashe's honorary degree from Saint John's University on ebay, which also provides a nice high resolution of a Saint John's University degree.

[Image: $_3.JPG]
12-20-2013 11:32 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #57
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-20-2013 10:34 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I can understand wanting to differentiate between St Johns and Saint Johns.

One is a proud athletic department with multiple national championships across several sports and the other is a private school with a has-been basketball program in a second rate conference.

Hahahaha are you guys going to actually win a big time game anytime soon? How much hype can one school continue to get without actually accomplishing anything of substance? Where's that Tahj Boyd Heisman?

Oh and an ACC fan calling the Big East second rate is really funny. The record books still show that the Big East still has more BCS bowl wins than the ACC. hahahahaha

I certainly hope so. Beating a Top 10 LSU team last season in the Chick-fil-a Bowl and opening the season with a win over a Top 5 Georgia team on national television wasn't enough.

On that train of thought, is St. John's ever going to win a big game?

Yes, the ACC is horrible. So horrible in fact it stripped the Big East of everything it had of value. How many teams with BCS wins are still in the Big East again?

I do have a serious question. How's it going to feel getting upstaged by the ACC Tournament in your own town despite the ACC getting the second best venue?
12-20-2013 11:46 AM
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LouPower Offline
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Post: #58
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
A-10 buries themselves even further with this news. Gotta love getting kicked out of a conference tournament site.

Boardwalk Hall will be their next stop.
12-20-2013 12:22 PM
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lofi Offline
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Post: #59
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-20-2013 11:46 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-20-2013 10:34 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I can understand wanting to differentiate between St Johns and Saint Johns.

One is a proud athletic department with multiple national championships across several sports and the other is a private school with a has-been basketball program in a second rate conference.

Hahahaha are you guys going to actually win a big time game anytime soon? How much hype can one school continue to get without actually accomplishing anything of substance? Where's that Tahj Boyd Heisman?

Oh and an ACC fan calling the Big East second rate is really funny. The record books still show that the Big East still has more BCS bowl wins than the ACC. hahahahaha

I certainly hope so. Beating a Top 10 LSU team last season in the Chick-fil-a Bowl and opening the season with a win over a Top 5 Georgia team on national television wasn't enough.

On that train of thought, is St. John's ever going to win a big game?

Yes, the ACC is horrible. So horrible in fact it stripped the Big East of everything it had of value. How many teams with BCS wins are still in the Big East again?

I do have a serious question. How's it going to feel getting upstaged by the ACC Tournament in your own town despite the ACC getting the second best venue?

The ACC did not strip the BE of everything it had of value.
How many of those BCS winning teams went to the ACC when they raided the BE yet again?
12-20-2013 12:33 PM
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Post: #60
RE: ACC selected by the Barclays Center over the B1G for Tournament
(12-20-2013 11:46 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-20-2013 10:34 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(12-18-2013 09:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I can understand wanting to differentiate between St Johns and Saint Johns.

One is a proud athletic department with multiple national championships across several sports and the other is a private school with a has-been basketball program in a second rate conference.

Hahahaha are you guys going to actually win a big time game anytime soon? How much hype can one school continue to get without actually accomplishing anything of substance? Where's that Tahj Boyd Heisman?

Oh and an ACC fan calling the Big East second rate is really funny. The record books still show that the Big East still has more BCS bowl wins than the ACC. hahahahaha

I certainly hope so. Beating a Top 10 LSU team last season in the Chick-fil-a Bowl and opening the season with a win over a Top 5 Georgia team on national television wasn't enough.

On that train of thought, is St. John's ever going to win a big game?

Yes, the ACC is horrible. So horrible in fact it stripped the Big East of everything it had of value. How many teams with BCS wins are still in the Big East again?

I do have a serious question. How's it going to feel getting upstaged by the ACC Tournament in your own town despite the ACC getting the second best venue?

Typical Clemson gasbag. You beat a top 5 Georgia team that hadn't played a game yet, and was destined to finish with something like the 6th best record in the SEC, although that is quite an accomplishment for an ACC team. Too bad you didn't also get to play Florida, who was also in the top 10 before they actually played a game. Tell us when you beat somebody this season that was actually good.

And I doubt we'll be upstaged by the ACC in New York. When the ACC had it's much ballyhooed media day in NYC last summer, not one newspaper gave it one sentence of coverage. Thats how excited and interested people here are about the ACC.

And let me ask you a serious question. How does it feel to be a southern conference and have to hold your tournament more than 250 miles away from your nearest member, in a separate part of the country, hoping for attention. I guess after the SEC rendered ACC football irrelevant in the south, and the B1G and Big East had done the same to it in basketball, it was time to wave the white flag, bring in a couple of northern outposts and hope they could boost the leagues sagging reputation. Can't wait to see how you ACC blowhards make out in your bowls this year. Probably best to start working on your excuses now.
12-20-2013 01:21 PM
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