Jim Young ‏@ACCSports2m
MT @MattSmithCFB: Waffle House & IHOP? MT @LarryWilliamsTI Clemson AD says ACC in early stages of exploring changes to divisional structure

That ought to keep the board humming...LOL

Might be as simple as two teams switching.

Just switch Miami and FSU and be done with it. You don't have to change primary cross overs. The benefit is you'd more than likely get FSU/Clem in the ACCCG most years. Guaranteed sellout.

Atlantic

Miami
Clemson
Louisville
NC State
Wake Forest
Boston College
Syracuse

Coastal

FSU
Va Tech
Ga Tech
UNC
Pitt
UVA
Duke

North/South with the Canes in the North, please.

North/South would kill recruiting and be even more lopsided than the old Big 12. Very foolish comment by a Cuse fan.

(12-07-2013 01:44 PM)ACCslater Wrote:  North/South would kill recruiting and be even more lopsided than the old Big 12. Very foolish comment by a Cuse fan.

Wouldn't say it would kill recruiting. Still would have Miami to tap into and opens up Virginia recruiting for Syracuse & BC.

A North/South divisional alignment like the one shown below would definitely NOT kill recruiting. Now there may be legitimate reasons to not do it but the recruiting differences are overstated, IMHO.

NORTH
Boston College
Louisville
Miami
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Syracuse

SOUTH
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest

The Northern teams would still have entree to South Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Newport News and DC Metro. That is plenty good enough to compete with the teams in the South, IMHO.

Now, if you put Wake or some other Tobacco Road team in the North instead of Miami, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, if South Florida is in the North then that more than evens things out on the recruiting front.

To further add to this, I would eliminate the permanent crossover games altogether or just protect a few (Miami/FSU, UNC/UVA, etc.) and go to a nine game league schedule.

(12-07-2013 02:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  A North/South divisional alignment like the one shown below would definitely NOT kill recruiting. Now there may be legitimate reasons to not do it but the recruiting differences are overstated, IMHO.

NORTH
Boston College
Louisville
Miami
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Syracuse

SOUTH
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest

The Northern teams would still have entree to South Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Newport News and DC Metro. That is plenty good enough to compete with the teams in the South, IMHO.

Now, if you put Wake or some other Tobacco Road team in the North instead of Miami, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, if South Florida is in the North then that more than evens things out on the recruiting front.

To further add to this, I would eliminate the permanent crossover games altogether or just protect a few (Miami/FSU, UNC/UVA, etc.) and go to a nine game league schedule.

You can't have Duke and Wake in the same division. They are the two smallest fanbases.

I understand TV and Recruiting. But as far as competition without lopsided. The Atlantic has not held its weight like the ACC originally planned. Miami was the key piece opposite of Florida State but Miami never delivered.


Florida State. Clemson
Georgia Tech. Virginia Tech
Louisville. Pitt
Miami. Boston College
NC State. North Carolina
Syracuse. Virginia
Wake forest. Duke

(12-07-2013 02:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  You can't have Duke and Wake in the same division. They are the two smallest fanbases.

Nope, I understand your point entirely. That is why I qualified my position beforehand by saying that there may be plenty of reasons to not go to a N/S realignment. My point was only that recruiting strength would be just as good in the North as it is in the South under a N/S alignment and the competitive balance would be fine.

I think it's foolish of people to presume that every program will remain as they are today. That just ignores history across the board.

Also, while a N/S alignment would put the ACC's two smallest fan bases (Duke and Wake Forest) in the same division, that would be somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that it would also have the two largest fan bases (Clemson and Florida State) on that side as well. Also, by aligning geographically, that would allow many more of Wake/Duke's games to be played in close proximity to potential rivals which would obviously increase their attendance.

Again, that doesn't mean that I'm necessarily pushing the N/S alignment. Frankly, as things currently stand I'm relatively agnostic about divisional realignment. However, a lot of the reasoning behind not doing it is incorrect, IMHO.

(12-07-2013 02:37 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 02:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  You can't have Duke and Wake in the same division. They are the two smallest fanbases.

Nope, I understand your point entirely. That is why I qualified my position beforehand by saying that there may be plenty of reasons to not go to a N/S realignment. My point was only that recruiting strength would be just as good in the North as it is in the South under a N/S alignment and the competitive balance would be fine.

I think it's foolish of people to presume that every program will remain as they are today. That just ignores history across the board.

Also, while a N/S alignment would put the ACC's two smallest fan bases (Duke and Wake Forest) in the same division, that would be somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that it would also have the two largest fan bases (Clemson and Florida State) on that side as well. Also, by aligning geographically, that would allow many more of Wake/Duke's games to be played in close proximity to potential rivals which would obviously increase their attendance.

Again, that doesn't mean that I'm necessarily pushing the N/S alignment. Frankly, as things currently stand I'm relatively agnostic about divisional realignment. However, a lot of the reasoning behind not doing it is incorrect, IMHO.

Duke and Wake are original members of the ACC and have always been the two smallest fan bases. That's not changing.

Having both of them in the same division will also hurt Clemson and FSU's SOS. It's much better for those schools to only have to play against one (Duke/WF) instead of both.

(12-07-2013 02:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 02:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  A North/South divisional alignment like the one shown below would definitely NOT kill recruiting. Now there may be legitimate reasons to not do it but the recruiting differences are overstated, IMHO.

NORTH
Boston College
Louisville
Miami
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Syracuse

SOUTH
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest

The Northern teams would still have entree to South Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Newport News and DC Metro. That is plenty good enough to compete with the teams in the South, IMHO.

Now, if you put Wake or some other Tobacco Road team in the North instead of Miami, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, if South Florida is in the North then that more than evens things out on the recruiting front.

To further add to this, I would eliminate the permanent crossover games altogether or just protect a few (Miami/FSU, UNC/UVA, etc.) and go to a nine game league schedule.

You can't have Duke and Wake in the same division. They are the two smallest fanbases.

Why does that matter?

Four pods

(12-07-2013 02:47 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 02:17 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 02:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  A North/South divisional alignment like the one shown below would definitely NOT kill recruiting. Now there may be legitimate reasons to not do it but the recruiting differences are overstated, IMHO.

NORTH
Boston College
Louisville
Miami
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Syracuse

SOUTH
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest

The Northern teams would still have entree to South Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Newport News and DC Metro. That is plenty good enough to compete with the teams in the South, IMHO.

Now, if you put Wake or some other Tobacco Road team in the North instead of Miami, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, if South Florida is in the North then that more than evens things out on the recruiting front.

To further add to this, I would eliminate the permanent crossover games altogether or just protect a few (Miami/FSU, UNC/UVA, etc.) and go to a nine game league schedule.

You can't have Duke and Wake in the same division. They are the two smallest fanbases.

Why does that matter?

Strength of schedule and eyeballs on the television.

(12-07-2013 02:10 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  A North/South divisional alignment like the one shown below would definitely NOT kill recruiting. Now there may be legitimate reasons to not do it but the recruiting differences are overstated, IMHO.

NORTH
Boston College
Louisville
Miami
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Syracuse

SOUTH
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest

The Northern teams would still have entree to South Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Newport News and DC Metro. That is plenty good enough to compete with the teams in the South, IMHO.

Now, if you put Wake or some other Tobacco Road team in the North instead of Miami, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, if South Florida is in the North then that more than evens things out on the recruiting front.

To further add to this, I would eliminate the permanent crossover games altogether or just protect a few (Miami/FSU, UNC/UVA, etc.) and go to a nine game league schedule.

Lol, You just recreated the Big East except for Virginia. Would be really good though.

I had heard that the Clemson AD had spoke in an interview recently that divisional realignment may be a very big reality soon. So I got in touch with my . A few schools are upset they only get to see found members but once every decade. FSU wants georgia Tech. At next months winter meetings some intense discussions are supposed to happen, Swofford is in favor of trying some new options which may need some NCAA approval. Such as no divisions at all, or new divisions every year. North Vs South has also been discussed with Wake forest and/or Miami in the north and Virginia in the south. A move back to 9 games may also be back in the cards. Pods that are differently numbered is also a possibility, I don't understand how that would work. There is also a push for just the best two teams to play for the conference title not just Coastal vs Atlantic.

Edit: Apparently one pod idea is two pods of 5 and one of 4 apparently was a suggestion by several ADs. If someone knows how that could work let me know
I will post some more info later, let me know what y'all think

(12-07-2013 02:57 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Four pods

I agree...

4, 3, 4, 3

(12-07-2013 03:11 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  I had heard that the Clemson AD had spoke in an interview recently that divisional realignment may be a very big reality soon. So I got in touch with my friend and this is what I learned. The decision to put Louisville in the Atlantic was a quick decision and has no merit, which means the whole arugment that the two divisions are equal is moot. Clemson is upset it doesn't get to see North Carolina and Virginia, two founding members, but once every decade in Death Valley. FSU wants georgia Tech. At next months winter meetings some intense discussions are supposed to happen, Swofford is in favor of trying some new options which may need some NCAA approval. Such as no divisions at all, or new divisions every year. North Vs South has also been discussed with Wake forest and/or Miami in the north and Virginia in the south. A move back to 9 games may also be back in the cards. Pods that are differently numbered is also a possibility, I don't understand how that would work. There is also a push for just the best two teams to play for the conference title not just Coastal vs Atlantic.

Edit: Apparently one pod idea is two pods of 5 and one of 4 apparently was a suggestion by several ADs. If someone knows how that could work let me know
I will post some more info later, let me know what y'all think

Add Cincinnati and have 3 pods of 5. Done .
If ND joins for 16 then go to 4 pods of 4

(12-07-2013 03:11 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  I had heard that the Clemson AD had spoke in an interview recently that divisional realignment may be a very big reality soon. So I got in touch with my friend and this is what I learned. The decision to put Louisville in the Atlantic was a quick decision and has no merit, which means the whole arugment that the two divisions are equal is moot. Clemson is upset it doesn't get to see North Carolina and Virginia, two founding members, but once every decade in Death Valley. FSU wants georgia Tech. At next months winter meetings some intense discussions are supposed to happen, Swofford is in favor of trying some new options which may need some NCAA approval. Such as no divisions at all, or new divisions every year. North Vs South has also been discussed with Wake forest and/or Miami in the north and Virginia in the south. A move back to 9 games may also be back in the cards. Pods that are differently numbered is also a possibility, I don't understand how that would work. There is also a push for just the best two teams to play for the conference title not just Coastal vs Atlantic.

Edit: Apparently one pod idea is two pods of 5 and one of 4 apparently was a suggestion by several ADs. If someone knows how that could work let me know
I will post some more info later, let me know what y'all think

Thanks for the info. Looking forward to reading Lumber's thoughts on it as well.

(12-07-2013 03:11 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  I had heard that the Clemson AD had spoke in an interview recently that divisional realignment may be a very big reality soon. So I got in touch with my friend and this is what I learned. The decision to put Louisville in the Atlantic was a quick decision and has no merit, which means the whole arugment that the two divisions are equal is moot. Clemson is upset it doesn't get to see North Carolina and Virginia, two founding members, but once every decade in Death Valley. FSU wants georgia Tech. At next months winter meetings some intense discussions are supposed to happen, Swofford is in favor of trying some new options which may need some NCAA approval. Such as no divisions at all, or new divisions every year. North Vs South has also been discussed with Wake forest and/or Miami in the north and Virginia in the south. A move back to 9 games may also be back in the cards. Pods that are differently numbered is also a possibility, I don't understand how that would work. There is also a push for just the best two teams to play for the conference title not just Coastal vs Atlantic.

Edit: Apparently one pod idea is two pods of 5 and one of 4 apparently was a suggestion by several ADs. If someone knows how that could work let me know
I will post some more info later, let me know what y'all think

This is how I would do three pods.
Pod 3 are two pairs that get rotated between Division 1 and Division 2. Everyone keeps a permanent rival in the other division. You play your 6 division mates, permanent rival then rotate through the other 4 opponents (Pod 3 plays each other every year). So you play everyone every four years instead of 6 now (Pod 3 would play everyone home/home in four years).

Division 1 Division 2
FSU---- Miami
NCSU--- UNC
Wake--- Duke
Clemson- UVA
GT ----- VT

Pod 3
Syracuse--BC
Louisville--Pitt

Here is another scenario for those that think the North is getting picked on.

Division 1 Division 2
VT ---- UVA
NCSU -- UNC
Wake-- Duke
Pitt ----Syracuse
BC --- Louisville

Pod 3
FSU - Miami
GT -- Clemson