(12-08-2013 03:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  isnt there an anti public school stigma that already exists within the BE?

i think that alone explains VCU

So, that stigma would also apply to UMass, right?

The premise of this conversation was that if not for football, UMass would already be in. Following that logic, VCU should already be in. If you're right about an anti-public school bias, then that explains why neither is in.

(12-08-2013 08:24 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 03:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  isnt there an anti public school stigma that already exists within the BE?

i think that alone explains VCU

Nope. There is a desire not to have any fbs (or those that may aspire to be fbs) fb sentiment but its not an anti public school stigma.

Simply put the BE doesnt want to invest in a school that is a flight risk. (public or private) Although I think they might be tempted to make an exception, if on the less than 1% chance ND and BC had a FB arrangement with some other conference and wanted to put the rest of their sports in the BE

The appeal of Notre Dame is that they've made it clear they are committed to football independence, so they don't need a football arrangement with another conference. BC has expressed no interest in football independence.

Personally, I would pursue Gonzaga and BYU if it could be ascertained that BYU's current independent status in football is their long term plan rather than a short term stop gap measure. If like Notre Dame, they are committed to football independence long term, then taking the 2 northwestern schools as a pair could create a somewhat manageable travel situation.

I don't know why they don't jump to 14 with umass, vcu, st louis and dayton with 2 e/w divisions of 7. Small thinking prevents it.

I'm a VCU fan...so discount everything I'm about to say, ha....but this is a classic internet overreaction thread.

Someone type out UMass' resume over the past 15 years and see how that looks. After that, type out the production they lose combined with Derek Kellogg's resume as a head coach and tell me how confident you are that he'll have them a perennial power.

(12-09-2013 10:39 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't know why they don't jump to 14 with umass, vcu, st louis and dayton with 2 e/w divisions of 7. Small thinking prevents it.

Reason they don't do it is the reason neither VCU or UMass won't get added...because they want to keep the league private.

My theory is they want a little sample size to see how all the numbers look (tv ratings, attendance, conference tourny attendance, etc) to then determine if they HAVE to add those teams to stay considered a "power conference".

well if you added dayton, st louis, vcu and umass, you would have:

11 catholic
1 private
2 public

so pretty clear who is in charge. Umass football isn't a concern for the league, let them do whatever they want. Heck, i would even keep spot 15 open for uconn and than 16 with byu or cincy and still not worry about football since those school's know going in what to expect. The goal is just to create the best hoop league.

(12-09-2013 11:13 AM)bluesox Wrote:  well if you added dayton, st louis, vcu and umass, you would have:

11 catholic
1 private
2 public

so pretty clear who is in charge. Umass football isn't a concern for the league, let them do whatever they want. Heck, i would even keep spot 15 open for uconn and than 16 with byu or cincy and still not worry about football since those school's know going in what to expect. The goal is just to create the best hoop league.

UMass football isn't a concern for the league . . . BUT it is a concern for UMass.

(12-09-2013 11:05 AM)Natty Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 10:39 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't know why they don't jump to 14 with umass, vcu, st louis and dayton with 2 e/w divisions of 7. Small thinking prevents it.

Reason they don't do it is the reason neither VCU or UMass won't get added...because they want to keep the league private.

My theory is they want a little sample size to see how all the numbers look (tv ratings, attendance, conference tourny attendance, etc) to then determine if they HAVE to add those teams to stay considered a "power conference".

League insiders have been quoted as saying that they plan to expand within the next few years. So, given that they want to expand, the problem with staying private is that there are no viable private school candidates on the East Coast. The Great Midwest failed once already. This conference needs to stay true to its roots and at a minimum, maintain its current East/West balance. The only way to do that in the East is to look elsewhere besides privates.

Is the Big East open to the idea of 14? If so then Umass, VCU/Richmond, Dayton, and St. Louis would be great additions. I understand the hesistance of a FBS football in the Big East, but UMass is literally the last of its kind. By that I mean they are a "basketball school" in a basketball league that plays FBS football in another league/independent. All other "basketball schools" either don't have FBS football or are in an all sports conference where splitting football affiliation from all other sports affiliation is just not going to happen. If UMass is deemed a good profitable addition, I would not let FBS football at UMass hold me back

(12-09-2013 01:23 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 11:13 AM)bluesox Wrote:  well if you added dayton, st louis, vcu and umass, you would have:

11 catholic
1 private
2 public

so pretty clear who is in charge. Umass football isn't a concern for the league, let them do whatever they want. Heck, i would even keep spot 15 open for uconn and than 16 with byu or cincy and still not worry about football since those school's know going in what to expect. The goal is just to create the best hoop league.

UMass football isn't a concern for the league . . . BUT it is a concern for UMass.

UMass is in a difficult position.

Do they maintain the status quo or will the MAC make them go all in?
Do they aspire to get into the American? that would lose appeal given the uncertainty(however small) of UConn sticking around
Do they downgrade fb and make a play to join the ranks of schools such as villanova and georgetown? They could then remain in the a10 or maybe the BE.
Of course the BE could decide they are happy with 10

(12-09-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 11:05 AM)Natty Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 10:39 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't know why they don't jump to 14 with umass, vcu, st louis and dayton with 2 e/w divisions of 7. Small thinking prevents it.

Reason they don't do it is the reason neither VCU or UMass won't get added...because they want to keep the league private.

My theory is they want a little sample size to see how all the numbers look (tv ratings, attendance, conference tourny attendance, etc) to then determine if they HAVE to add those teams to stay considered a "power conference".

League insiders have been quoted as saying that they plan to expand within the next few years. So, given that they want to expand, the problem with staying private is that there are no viable private school candidates on the East Coast. The Great Midwest failed once already. This conference needs to stay true to its roots and at a minimum, maintain its current East/West balance. The only way to do that in the East is to look elsewhere besides privates.

If they're a basketball-first conference, you're right. If institutional fit is a significant or dominant factor, Richmond (and maaaaybe Davidson) are your candidates.

(12-10-2013 11:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 11:05 AM)Natty Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 10:39 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't know why they don't jump to 14 with umass, vcu, st louis and dayton with 2 e/w divisions of 7. Small thinking prevents it.

Reason they don't do it is the reason neither VCU or UMass won't get added...because they want to keep the league private.

My theory is they want a little sample size to see how all the numbers look (tv ratings, attendance, conference tourny attendance, etc) to then determine if they HAVE to add those teams to stay considered a "power conference".

League insiders have been quoted as saying that they plan to expand within the next few years. So, given that they want to expand, the problem with staying private is that there are no viable private school candidates on the East Coast. The Great Midwest failed once already. This conference needs to stay true to its roots and at a minimum, maintain its current East/West balance. The only way to do that in the East is to look elsewhere besides privates.

If they're a basketball-first conference, you're right. If institutional fit is a significant or dominant factor, Richmond (and maaaaybe Davidson) are your candidates.

If this is not a basketball-first conference, I've been wasting my time following them and they've done a good job of fooling the rest of the world as well.

Judging by this falls performance and rankings the BE may be a women's x-country 1st conference!

(12-11-2013 05:24 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Judging by this falls performance and rankings the BE may be a women's x-country 1st conference!

Nothing wrong with that, right?

(12-11-2013 05:24 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Judging by this falls performance and rankings the BE may be a women's x-country 1st conference!

you ==><== big east fans

(12-09-2013 08:12 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 01:23 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 11:13 AM)bluesox Wrote:  well if you added dayton, st louis, vcu and umass, you would have:

11 catholic
1 private
2 public

so pretty clear who is in charge. Umass football isn't a concern for the league, let them do whatever they want. Heck, i would even keep spot 15 open for uconn and than 16 with byu or cincy and still not worry about football since those school's know going in what to expect. The goal is just to create the best hoop league.

UMass football isn't a concern for the league . . . BUT it is a concern for UMass.

UMass is in a difficult position.

Do they maintain the status quo or will the MAC make them go all in?
Do they aspire to get into the American? that would lose appeal given the uncertainty(however small) of UConn sticking around
Do they downgrade fb and make a play to join the ranks of schools such as villanova and georgetown? They could then remain in the a10 or maybe the BE.
Of course the BE could decide they are happy with 10

As a MAC Guy, make them go all in or get out!

Not to bee a troll, but make a run at Akron. Take all expect Football and Soccer( sorry, you don't get Soccer)