goodknightfl Wrote:

HiddenDragon Wrote:I said that because it doesn't make any sense for the BE to go to 12 teams. Especially with the teams you named. Inviting half of CUSA (no matter how much promise these teams have) to the BE would be a national image nightmare for this conference.

It is not gonna happen.

the BE already had a national nightmare... esp on fb side. I agree going to 12 aint gonna happen the time to have done it was in 03... MT protected the bb schools which is part of his job. the conf had a couple of ways it could have went and chose one... was it the wrong one... No... was it the right one...NO but was it a valid one yes. the BE is just fine like it is.. as long as they can keep 1 fb school in the top 12 on a regular basis... can they do that.. Time will tell.

National nightmare?

Nobody wants the BE to lose it's BCS bid, instead they want the league to step up and earn it on the field. Last year the Big East did that by beating the SEC champion on their own turf. The rest of the league is young and competive with their best days ahead. UL is poised to be a national player if it isn't already and USF is right there along with Rutgers and UCONN. CUSE isn't going to be down long and Cincy is pouring money and resources into their program.

To be perfectly candid, the only people who want the BE to lose their autobid are the have nots or writers looking to write one liners instead of being legitimate journalists. Where was the national outrage of a terrible 4 loss FSU playing in the BCS?

Do us a favor....go home. Try and figure out how to make CDOA work b/c there are going to be no additions to the BE anytime soon and there is too much money on the table to split. For the same reason there is too much money on the table to add another full or even part-time member.

CyberBull Wrote:National nightmare?

Nobody wants the BE to lose it's BCS bid, instead they want the league to step up and earn it on the field. Last year the Big East did that by beating the SEC champion on their own turf. The rest of the league is young and competive with their best days ahead. UL is poised to be a national player if it isn't already and USF is right there along with Rutgers and UCONN. CUSE isn't going to be down long and Cincy is pouring money and resources into their program.

What a stupid arse! Do you even know why I said it would be a national nightmare in the 1st place? No you don't because if you had read my post you would have been able to comprehend it.

You're the first one to always think when a CUSA poster says something on the BE board it has to be a slam toward the conference.

If you don't think if the BE added 4 more teams from CUSA to form a 12-team all sport conference would be look upon by the national media in a negative way then you are smoking too much of your own a$$.

Now you should be trying to take your hateful @ss to church or something to deal with your personal problems kid!

Quote:u bring in memphis ... who is better than any of the bb schools u lose..

I think Memphis for Villanova is a wash.

Honestly I think that, along with the Philly market, is why you see so many calling for a Villanova upgrade in football. Splitting while taking Villanova with us for all sports would be like getting the best of both worlds. Could you imagine the basketball in a 9 team league of the current football schools AND Villanova? That's my dream conference.

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:u bring in memphis ... who is better than any of the bb schools u lose..

I think Memphis for Villanova is a wash.

Honestly I think that, along with the Philly market, is why you see so many calling for a Villanova upgrade in football. Splitting while taking Villanova with us for all sports would be like getting the best of both worlds. Could you imagine the basketball in a 9 team league of the current football schools AND Villanova? That's my dream conference.

I agree wholeheartedly NFL and you could argue that Nova might be a little better BB wise. We can just call that one a wash though, there really isn't another school that would make up the loss of Nova or G-town.

HiddenDragon Wrote:I said that because it doesn't make any sense for the BE to go to 12 teams. Especially with the teams you named. Inviting half of CUSA (no matter how much promise these teams have) to the BE would be a national image nightmare for this conference.

It is not gonna happen.

Hidden Dragon, you are the first CUSA guy I've seen who has seen the light on this subject. I've said this probably a million times and I sound like a broken record saying it again. If you think the Big East gets hammered now, think about the axe we would receive adding the following: ECU, UCF, Memphis, USM, none of those teams have an ounce of respect on the college football landscape outside of probably USM. None of those teams do anything to help the image of the league, and most of those teams have directional names(there is a stigma attached to directional colleges). Its not a knock against those schools at all and I certainly don't have an inflated view of my own school. I don't think UofL is elite yet, because we still havent' beat an elite team. We are gaining some respect, but we still have some doubters.

You have a team like UofL who is still looking for that ultimate respect and you are bringing in more teams with little to no credibility in football. Adding that many teams just waters down the big east to where it would never get any respect. The smart thing to do is wait for a school like Memphis or UCF to build its program. Teams just don't get that good overnight and the Big East isn't in any position to add teams that really don't bring anything to the football cupboard. Again I say this with no pun intended to UCF, Memphis or any other school. I like the direction that Memphis and UCF are going in and I believe they will be solid football schools, but right now neither one of those schools bring any substance to the football side of the big east. Adding all those schools pushes us further down the latter. I hope none of the CUSA guys takes that as a knock on there program. The big East just needs to become stable, and we have a group of teams right now that we need to really build. Adding teams to an already unstable conference does nothing for our image and certainly kills our product.

omnicarrier Wrote:

twentyseven Wrote:I'm a HUGE big East fan but Tranghese and this conference are really starting to frustrate me. MT is working his butt off to make sure that the bball schools lead the way into the future...is that by necessity or by choice? The fact is that the football conference was formed because the writing was on the wall that football would lead the way in college athletics.

Ask yourself this, if there was never a BE football conference, where would the bball conference be today? MT has convinced the world that the football schools need the bball schools to survive but guess what the bball schools have been riding on the all-sports schools coattails from day one. For the past decade or so football has kept the BE relevant in college athletics, if there was no BE football conference would MT ever have held the BCS chair...I don't think so.

Tranghese is jumping for joy because the league is getting a new TV deal but how do we know a nine time all-sports conference wouldn't have gotten a similar deal, (and in the long run a better deal). IMO, its safe to say that a bball only conference wouldn't be as strong without the all-sports schools and wouldn't come close to the TV deals the league is getting today. The bottom line is that 15 years ago MT realized that the Big East would not survive without football. The league has been banking on success in football every since. Ask yourself another question, despite the contracts, what would this league sell its soul for... a horrible season in football but a final four in bball or a strong season and a national champ in football but a mediocre season in bball?

Without football this league would be close to dead already, the greatest trick that MT has pulled is to convince everyone that without bball the football conference would be dead, when in fact, its been the other way around since day 1.

While being a football fan and in favor of a split, there is so much mis-information in that post I just don't know where to begin.

The formation of the Big East was accomplished mostly by Providence, St. John's, Georgetown, and Syracuse with Dave Gavitt from Providence spearheading the way.

Only 1 football school in that mix and only 2 football amongst the founders of Providence, St. John's, Georgetown, Syracuse, Boston College, Seton Hall, and Connecticut. Villanova was #8 in the second year.

Then things went awry for football when the Big East failed to get Penn State into the league (the vote was 5-3 in favor, but a super-majority of 6 was needed to get in). Pitt was subsequently voted in as #9. Had both Pitt and PSU been voted in, the league would have likely gone in a different direction - but that is water under the bridge.

However, throughout the 80s, when the Big East made their big splash on ESPN and quickly rivaled the ACC and Big 10 as the best basketball conference, the leaders were Georgetown, St. John's, and Syracuse. Again, only one football school.

By 1990 it became apparent that Eastern football independence was doomed but it was too late for an Eastern all-sports league to be become a reality. Penn State was going to the Big 10. Also at this time, Florida State was going to the ACC (Syracuse was the other choice, but FSU was the more logical geographical fit and had the more elite football program).

It was at this point in time that Syracuse joined with BC and Pitt to convince Miami to join the Big East on the basis that a football conference would develop.

West Virginia, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, and Temple were added as football only members.

During the 90s, Georgetown and St. John's began to fade away in bb and UConn and Syracuse carried the bb flag for the conference, with the bulk of the load being carried by the Huskies since it took Syracuse time to recover from NCAA violations that today would merely get a slap on the wrist. During this time frame, Connecticut wasn't a D-1A football school.

Miami, Syracuse and eventually VT carried the football banner, with the bulk of the load being carried by Miami. But when the league expanded to include West Virginia and Rutgers for all-sports and Notre Dame for all sports but football in the mid-90s, the bb got further watered down.

Eventually VT was offered full membership, but Temple never was. I suspect because the BE schools knew UConn was upgrading and saw the Huskies as the 8th football member with a conference of 14 total.

It wasn't until the 21st century approached that the football schools and Notre Dame began to dominate the league. And by that time, the ACC was already eyeing three of four from the league for expansion to 12.

So your ending statement is simply untrue.

The ONLY constant throughout the bizarre history of the league is that Syracuse has been its biggest and most constant contributor in the two revenue-generating sports.

Cheers,
Neil

Twentyseven you an emotional FB person that is way off base with your history of the BE. Omnicarrier has provided a very accrurate assessment of the BE. Personally I am a FB fan first and BB fan second. I believe the FB schools should split and add at least 1-4 schools over time if necessary for scheduling and BCS purposes. That chance can come with out monetary penalties in or after 2010. In the mean time the BE has a chance to view all options rationally rather than chasing its tail an making a hurried irrational decision that would hurt both factions in a split or by staying together. After doing alot of research into the BE history and reading about the conference on this and many other boards, the only real conclusion is that this conference is complex and uniquely intertwined. There is a very strong bond between Pitt and Cuse with the original BB schools. BC was a strong cog in that bond befoe they left too because of their BB program. The bond doesn't seem to exist from Conn even though they were a BB first / FB second conference member.

Though I would not be opposed to a split in this league, I think the conference can move in different directions first and still remain a SUPER CONFERNCE over all with BCS status though they still may not be a dominating anchor conference in the BCS. My proposal is not new as a FEDERATION has been discussed repeatly on many message boards. Before a total divorce takes place I would seperate into two divisions (FB and BB) in the conference. Each division could add one team for scheduling purposes. The FB division would keep all FB revenue and TV revenue for FB. The conference could divide the BB revenue minus the NCAA credits which seemed to be a stumbling block in the original split. Each division would keep their respective credits. The BB divisions would play each other H&A divisionally and at least 3 cross over games between the divisions would be played for rivilries and travel costs. I believe the cross over games should rotate in groups of 3 seasonally for overall conference fairness though. This system would also give the FB schools 4 home and 4 away conference games that most FB schools want. Harsh financial penalties should be accessed on schools leaving individuallly for what they deem greener pastures. After 2010 no financial penalties should be accessed on the divisions if they choose to go a seperate direction as a seperate conference.

The only other options are adding a FB only school which would just put another Temple like hybrid in the mix and the choices are few in number, a total split, or stay status quo. Status quo is detrimental to the BCS bid as other conferences as the MWC and Cusa grow and gain momentum for a BCS bid. It also has FB scheduling consequences that were evident this year with teams pulling out of BE contracts for more money and the 4/3 conference schedule H&A. At his point the only FB only candidates are the academies which are not interested, ECU, and Temple which has made great in their facilities and administration attitude. Their FB ability and attendence problem has yet to be tested as of this writing. Finally the easiest path for the BE is just to grow by one for all sports which would take care of the FB problems and make the FB schools happy. The last and easiest step seems to provide more internal conference conerns and skeptism than any of the other options.

Go BIG EAST :help:

kardphan Wrote:

HiddenDragon Wrote:I said that because it doesn't make any sense for the BE to go to 12 teams. Especially with the teams you named. Inviting half of CUSA (no matter how much promise these teams have) to the BE would be a national image nightmare for this conference.

It is not gonna happen.

Hidden Dragon, you are the first CUSA guy I've seen who has seen the light on this subject. I've said this probably a million times and I sound like a broken record saying it again. If you think the Big East gets hammered now, think about the axe we would receive adding the following: ECU, UCF, Memphis, USM, none of those teams have an ounce of respect on the college football landscape outside of probably USM. None of those teams do anything to help the image of the league, and most of those teams have directional names(there is a stigma attached to directional colleges). Its not a knock against those schools at all and I certainly don't have an inflated view of my own school. I don't think UofL is elite yet, because we still havent' beat an elite team. We are gaining some respect, but we still have some doubters.

You have a team like UofL who is still looking for that ultimate respect and you are bringing in more teams with little to no credibility in football. Adding that many teams just waters down the big east to where it would never get any respect. The smart thing to do is wait for a school like Memphis or UCF to build its program. Teams just don't get that good overnight and the Big East isn't in any position to add teams that really don't bring anything to the football cupboard. Again I say this with no pun intended to UCF, Memphis or any other school. I like the direction that Memphis and UCF are going in and I believe they will be solid football schools, but right now neither one of those schools bring any substance to the football side of the big east. Adding all those schools pushes us further down the latter. I hope none of the CUSA guys takes that as a knock on there program. The big East just needs to become stable, and we have a group of teams right now that we need to really build. Adding teams to an already unstable conference does nothing for our image and certainly kills our product.

USF and CINCY didnt bring anything either but u needed them... I have said I dont see u splitting.. If U do U have 2 choices go to 9 or 12... there is some good reasons to do either... I dont avocate either idea... 9 makes as much or more sense than 10... who would u add to get to 9.... I have no idea... though i dont think vill is moving to 1a anytime soon. If u need to add 1 Memphis makes some sense... Ecu does as does UCF... or if U want to stay north.. bring back temple..

goodknightfl Wrote:USF and CINCY didnt bring anything either but u needed them... Iwant to stay north.. bring back temple..

Didn't bring anything?

UC in CUSA 4 of the last 5 seasons either 1st or 2nd in the league with bowl game appearances. It would have been nice to win a couple more of those bowl games, but regardless UC had one of the better teams in the conference 4 of the last 5 seasons. And I've covered our campus, academics, and new sports facilities enough so I won't go over that again.

2004 - tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, Ft. Worth Bowl win
2003 - bad year
2002 tied for 1st, 7-7 overall, NO bowl loss
2001 tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, MC bowl loss
2000 tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, MC bowl loss

bearcatfan Wrote:

goodknightfl Wrote:USF and CINCY didnt bring anything either but u needed them... Iwant to stay north.. bring back temple..

Didn't bring anything?

UC in CUSA 4 of the last 5 seasons either 1st or 2nd in the league with bowl game appearances. It would have been nice to win a couple more of those bowl games, but regardless UC had one of the better teams in the conference 4 of the last 5 seasons. And I've covered our campus, academics, and new sports facilities enough so I won't go over that again.

2004 - tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, Ft. Worth Bowl win
2003 - bad year
2002 tied for 1st, 7-7 overall, NO bowl loss
2001 tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, MC bowl loss
2000 tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, MC bowl loss

I believe they also brought a basketball program that won or shared 80% of the CUSA regular season titles.

I love Central Florida fans coming on here and accusing ANYONE of not bringing anything to the Big East. Don't worry goodknightfl we don't want you or your program near our conference. In fact, stop coming over here and whining like a b*tch if you're happy to be in C-USA.

bearcat65 Wrote:

bearcatfan Wrote:

goodknightfl Wrote:USF and CINCY didnt bring anything either but u needed them... Iwant to stay north.. bring back temple..

Didn't bring anything?

UC in CUSA 4 of the last 5 seasons either 1st or 2nd in the league with bowl game appearances. It would have been nice to win a couple more of those bowl games, but regardless UC had one of the better teams in the conference 4 of the last 5 seasons. And I've covered our campus, academics, and new sports facilities enough so I won't go over that again.

2004 - tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, Ft. Worth Bowl win
2003 - bad year
2002 tied for 1st, 7-7 overall, NO bowl loss
2001 tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, MC bowl loss
2000 tied for 2nd, 7-5 overall, MC bowl loss

I believe they also brought a basketball program that won or shared 80% of the CUSA regular season titles.

They also brought a strong academic and research facilities, something that is HUGE for the Big East conference when dealing with fellow BCS conference. Cincinnati also brought top notch facilities, a bowl quality football program, a Top 10 all-time basketball program and solid non-revenue sports.

HiddenDragon Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:National nightmare?

Nobody wants the BE to lose it's BCS bid, instead they want the league to step up and earn it on the field. Last year the Big East did that by beating the SEC champion on their own turf. The rest of the league is young and competive with their best days ahead. UL is poised to be a national player if it isn't already and USF is right there along with Rutgers and UCONN. CUSE isn't going to be down long and Cincy is pouring money and resources into their program.

What a stupid arse! Do you even know why I said it would be a national nightmare in the 1st place? No you don't because if you had read my post you would have been able to comprehend it.

You're the first one to always think when a CUSA poster says something on the BE board it has to be a slam toward the conference.

If you don't think if the BE added 4 more teams from CUSA to form a 12-team all sport conference would be look upon by the national media in a negative way then you are smoking too much of your own a$$.

Now you should be trying to take your hateful @ss to church or something to deal with your personal problems kid!

Only stupid "arse" in this case is you HiddenDragon, lets break down the post:

Do you even know why I said it would be a national nightmare in the 1st place? No you don't because if you had read my post you would have been able to comprehend it.

Nobody knows what the hell you're talking about.

You're the first one to always think when a CUSA poster says something on the BE board it has to be a slam toward the conference.

Ummm, no he's not, and trust me, 90% of the posts by C-USA fans are ripping the conference, or ripping USF, Louisville and Cincinnati.

If you don't think if the BE added 4 more teams from CUSA to form a 12-team all sport conference would be look upon by the national media in a negative way then you are smoking too much of your own a$$.

The only one smoking their @ss is you. If the Big East added ECU (who is improving), Memphis (who is respect already, and has been in the Top 25 before), and 2 other programs how would that be looked at as negative? Especially if another Big East or two steps up as a Top 25 program?

Now you should be trying to take your hateful @ss to church or something to deal with your personal problems kid!

The only one acting like a kid right now is you.

CatsClaw Wrote:I love Central Florida fans coming on here and accusing ANYONE of not bringing anything to the Big East. Don't worry goodknightfl we don't want you or your program near our conference. In fact, stop coming over here and whining like a b*tch if you're happy to be in C-USA.

Its the off season dude... need something to do... just like u do on the cusa site. and I dont whine...If we get in BE great.... if not great... many who come here do whine... but I'm not one of them.

CatsClaw Wrote:

HiddenDragon Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:National nightmare?

Nobody wants the BE to lose it's BCS bid, instead they want the league to step up and earn it on the field. Last year the Big East did that by beating the SEC champion on their own turf. The rest of the league is young and competive with their best days ahead. UL is poised to be a national player if it isn't already and USF is right there along with Rutgers and UCONN. CUSE isn't going to be down long and Cincy is pouring money and resources into their program.

What a stupid arse! Do you even know why I said it would be a national nightmare in the 1st place? No you don't because if you had read my post you would have been able to comprehend it.

You're the first one to always think when a CUSA poster says something on the BE board it has to be a slam toward the conference.

If you don't think if the BE added 4 more teams from CUSA to form a 12-team all sport conference would be look upon by the national media in a negative way then you are smoking too much of your own a$$.

Now you should be trying to take your hateful @ss to church or something to deal with your personal problems kid!

Only stupid "arse" in this case is you HiddenDragon, lets break down the post:

Do you even know why I said it would be a national nightmare in the 1st place? No you don't because if you had read my post you would have been able to comprehend it.

Nobody knows what the hell you're talking about.

You're the first one to always think when a CUSA poster says something on the BE board it has to be a slam toward the conference.

Ummm, no he's not, and trust me, 90% of the posts by C-USA fans are ripping the conference, or ripping USF, Louisville and Cincinnati.

If you don't think if the BE added 4 more teams from CUSA to form a 12-team all sport conference would be look upon by the national media in a negative way then you are smoking too much of your own a$$.

The only one smoking their @ss is you. If the Big East added ECU (who is improving), Memphis (who is respect already, and has been in the Top 25 before), and 2 other programs how would that be looked at as negative? Especially if another Big East or two steps up as a Top 25 program?

Now you should be trying to take your hateful @ss to church or something to deal with your personal problems kid!

The only one acting like a kid right now is you.

Its the smack board... we are supposed to rip U here...

goodknightfl Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:I love Central Florida fans coming on here and accusing ANYONE of not bringing anything to the Big East. Don't worry goodknightfl we don't want you or your program near our conference. In fact, stop coming over here and whining like a b*tch if you're happy to be in C-USA.

Its the off season dude... need something to do... just like u do on the cusa site. and I dont whine...If we get in BE great.... if not great... many who come here do whine... but I'm not one of them.

You have to admit it looks silly for some of the UCF fans to rip on a program that had considerable success in CUSA.