3rd place finishes in the West Division should be unacceptable. Period. Certainly not something to be rewarded, O'Brien screwed up on this one.

Pretty good crowd for a Wednesday night game, this one would have sold out had it been on a Saturday. Sad to see them all leave before the clock hit 0:00. Oh well…always next year…?

It's now pretty clear where we are in the conference strata.

NIU, BSU
UT, BGSU
Everybody else.

It's not the athletes, it's the mindset, decision making, and execution in big moments. Don't put this on Tuke though. We are young and still improving on D. 35 points vs. Lynch is good enough for a W. 31 was good enough last season.

I am mixed. First of all I think Campbell is a solid young coach, recruiter and person. He is running a good program and has his players improving for the most part and believing in themselves.

The offense is in need of a tune up and really needs to get over the "cutesy" goal line and short yardage playbook that cost us a chance for wins in each of our (close) losses. These teams were pretty evenly matched tonight, but our mistakes in those situations kept this from being a win or going down to the wire. Repeatedly, we have gone away from our strengths - our main running plays to our top rbs and our spread package w quick throws - in these situations and run wildcat, had tight ends and guards take snaps, had a freshman rb throw one of the most important passes of the year (would have been picked by the cover defended if the lb hadn't made the fingertip grab in front of him), etc... Hopefully, the staff will make time to really analyze the tapes and note that all the cute stuff generally imploded against good teams.

QB, I continue to enjoy TO to a point. He throws a beautiful ball and hits a lot of home runs. However, he has just never developed a pocket feel or sense of how to use his feet to make time to throw. He is fine is our offense, but when we need the QB to improvise or make something happen when the play breaks down he just isn't that guy.

The D was great for a half, but their staff made some halftime adjustments and we lost some momentum down the stretch. I am not worried about the direction of our defense. We got good, mostly young, players and the move to more of a 3-4 has been an improvement. I think Tuke and the crew will be fine.

Special teams continue to be well coached. The only weakness has become Reedy's half speed kickoff return style that evolved this season. Jogging from the catch to the 15 yard line doesn't usually lead to a long return.

Thanks to the Seniors for all the blood, sweat and tears they put in for our school. They've won a lot of games and brought a winning approach back to UT football. Now, we need to get over the hump and win one more game a year to be champions.

(11-21-2013 12:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 12:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sorry, but this sounds like AZZ after we thumped BG. All of a sudden Clawson, their program building coach, is a loser who can only beat weak teams and can't win championships. Next week he was a genius. Campbell is fine, NIU is hugely good and Fluellen just wasn't Fluellen. I'm as disappointed as anyone at our second half collapses but we're better than mediocre and recruiting championships don't mean squat. The team that has recruited the best for the last several years is NIU. They were better in nearly every phase (JD being the obvious exception). Campbell is 17-8. Pretty sure that doesn't qualify as mediocre- if wrre in the East we'd be preparing to play NIU for the MACC ?

SPOILER ALERT: We'd lose.

Thumped? You needed a last minute pair of great plays by Owens to eek out a win!

(11-21-2013 12:42 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 12:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sorry, but this sounds like AZZ after we thumped BG. All of a sudden Clawson, their program building coach, is a loser who can only beat weak teams and can't win championships. Next week he was a genius. Campbell is fine, NIU is hugely good and Fluellen just wasn't Fluellen. I'm as disappointed as anyone at our second half collapses but we're better than mediocre and recruiting championships don't mean squat. The team that has recruited the best for the last several years is NIU. They were better in nearly every phase (JD being the obvious exception). Campbell is 17-8. Pretty sure that doesn't qualify as mediocre- if wrre in the East we'd be preparing to play NIU for the MACC ?

SPOILER ALERT: We'd lose.

So in 30 years when they honor him at halftime for his "winning record" as a head coach at Toledo, people will clap and say thank you. When they flip thru the game program and see that his teams won no conference titles and never finished in the top 25, they'll realize that his legacy here at UT was not legendary..

HUUUUUUUUUUUUIUUUUUGE difference between legendary and mediocre. And we may be talking about his five titles and BCS win. We'll see.

(11-21-2013 12:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 12:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sorry, but this sounds like AZZ after we thumped BG. All of a sudden Clawson, their program building coach, is a loser who can only beat weak teams and can't win championships. Next week he was a genius. Campbell is fine, NIU is hugely good and Fluellen just wasn't Fluellen. I'm as disappointed as anyone at our second half collapses but we're better than mediocre and recruiting championships don't mean squat. The team that has recruited the best for the last several years is NIU. They were better in nearly every phase (JD being the obvious exception). Campbell is 17-8. Pretty sure that doesn't qualify as mediocre- if wrre in the East we'd be preparing to play NIU for the MACC ?

SPOILER ALERT: We'd lose.

Thumped? You needed a last minute pair of great plays by Owens to eek out a win!

And got them to thump the falcons. Like last year. And the year before. And the year before.

(11-20-2013 11:53 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  I don't agree with everything you said, but I do agree with the main thing - this team is NOT a TOUGH team. They quit in the 2nd half tonight. Plain and simple. They had their tickets to Detroit in their hands, then let them slip away. This team showed ZERO heart and ZERO pride in the 2nd half. I was planning on going to the Akron game, but not now. I'm not wasting my time, energy, and money to watch a team that QUIT on us with a MACC birth on the line. Pathetic.

Toledo Tough DOES apply to our men's and women's basketball teams. Time to fill Savage Arena and cheer for our Rockets.

Lots of teams look like they quit against NIU. They are that good. We aren't. Next year we have a guy jamed ELY coming in at QB. We all know what happened LAST time we had a QB named Ely.

I guess I would say Northern Illinois was picked to win from the beginning of the year, and they met expectations. Their offense while not complex, is difficult to stop when it has momentum and a quarterback like Lynch. It reminds me a little of when Nebraska used to run the option and no one could stop it. With that said, I wouldn't put the loss on players. The quality of play has risen since Campbell arrived (including under Beckman). We have gone from crap to upper mediocre. Will Campbell and his staff ever get Toledo over the hump, time will tell. But the coaching staff seems to make decisions during crucial moments. Who thinks that with a great O-Line and backs, it is a good idea to have your freshman running back throw a pass over the middle into the endzone? There never seemed to be any continuity with the passing game. Lots of weapons, highly under utilized this year. On defense, I had a guy behind me in the stands, who called the pass play to #11. He said, "watch out, they like to go to him in this formation". There was not a UT defender within 9yds. Sure enough, boom. Later they flipped the play to other side and same result. If guy in the stands can spot that, why can't Toledo's defense. Also, why did we only rush 3, when we had Lynch with his back to the goal line on 3rd down? Thank goodness basketball season is here, because like the Rockets "Toledo Tough" D, my interest in the second half has faded.

(11-21-2013 02:59 AM)pono Wrote:  Special teams continue to be well coached. The only weakness has become Reedy's half speed kickoff return style that evolved this season. Jogging from the catch to the 15 yard line doesn't usually lead to a long return.

YES! On kickoffs, Reedy has no momentum going forward when he catches the ball. He catches it while taking a step back, then takes another step just to get his feet under him, THEN finally takes off. As a KOR, you need to have your momentum going FORWARD when catching the ball.

The Rockets should finish whatever practices they have left this season with a 99-yard sprint. That TD drive in the 3rd quarter by Northern was unacceptable.

Look, I can live with some calling me out as a "bad fan" because I expect more ("Toledo Tough", "Greatness", "Excellence"--see, I think those need to be more than slogans). We all have our opinions, and I respect the hell out of those of you who are willing to keep putting up with this--I really do. I wish I shared your hope & optimism. But, I don't see this football program heading in the right direction. Remember: we used to talk about becoming the next Boise State. What I see is a program that has ceded MAC superiority to Northern Illinois. WE should be the team playing for top-20 rankings (and then keeping them once we get there). Instead, we are--for the second season in a row--the 3rd best team in the MAC West. No offense to Ball State...but how in the hell did we let THAT program overtake us?

Unfortunately, this season has largely been a replay of last season--with the exception being we did beat Cincy as our signature win last season, and our "big win" this year would have to be BG...we are struggling with late season injuries again, we get outcoached significantly in the big games, and we have again fallen apart in the second half of the season (counting that almost-debacle against Buffalo when we blew a 31-point lead). Now, we are limping (figuratively & literally) into the Akron game, needing a win to have a shot at a bowl game--just like last season. But this Akron team is much better than last season's; much better than their record. They can throw the ball this season. Many of you believe that the Rockets have the "character" to pull that game out. I hope you are right.

In the MAC the superior teams usually have the best QB on the field. NIU had this last night and all season. Lynch was the best player on the field last night. I think we all had high expectations for our senior QB to really take off this season and I don't think he's matched the success he had as a sophomore. Owens just didn't get any better and in our losses this season I think you can draw a direct line to mediocre play under center. This game was no different than our other loses, except Florida. We make too many mistakes, kill drives with turnovers and are just sloppy. We're sloppy getting the plays into the game. Our coaches look like they are drawing plays up in the dirt, while other teams have solid game plans. Really, Sr. QB, Sr. TB and we have our freshman running back throw a pass to a tightend?

With about 8ish minutes to go in the game we still had a chance to score, make a stop and get the ball back. Bad play calls and bad play, left us with 3rd and 10. There was no sense of urgency, the play we ended up running was doomed from the snap and Owens tosses the ball out of bounds - ball game and everyone started streaming to the gates with 8 min to go because they saw the writing on the wall.

I think we had a decent game plan and tried to run the ball to keep lynch off the filed, but just couldn't pick up the 3rd and long's when we need them. Our top RB is still banged up and NIU made the adjustments needed in the second half. You knew NIU would eventually take over the game. They play with confidence, they play exceptionally mistake free and deserved to be ranked.

Plain and simple we got beat by a better team.

(11-21-2013 08:40 AM)emanoh Wrote:  In the MAC the superior teams usually have the best QB on the field. NIU had this last night and all season. Lynch was the best player on the field last night. I think we all had high expectations for our senior QB to really take off this season and I don't think he's matched the success he had as a sophomore. Owens just didn't get any better and in our losses this season I think you can draw a direct line to mediocre play under center. This game was no different than our other loses, except Florida. We make too many mistakes, kill drives with turnovers and are just sloppy. We're sloppy getting the plays into the game. Our coaches look like they are drawing plays up in the dirt, while other teams have solid game plans. Really, Sr. QB, Sr. TB and we have our freshman running back throw a pass to a tightend?

With about 8ish minutes to go in the game we still had a chance to score, make a stop and get the ball back. Bad play calls and bad play, left us with 3rd and 10. There was no sense of urgency, the play we ended up running was doomed from the snap and Owens tosses the ball out of bounds - ball game and everyone started streaming to the gates with 8 min to go because they saw the writing on the wall.

I think we had a decent game plan and tried to run the ball to keep lynch off the filed, but just couldn't pick up the 3rd and long's when we need them. Our top RB is still banged up and NIU made the adjustments needed in the second half. You knew NIU would eventually take over the game. They play with confidence, they play exceptionally mistake free and deserved to be ranked.

Plain and simple we got beat by a better team.

I guess I agree with almost all of this. Please don't think I'm happy with the product we've seen in the second halves of recent games. I'm not. But I do think the coaching will get better and I firmly believe that NIU will be a 4-8 team in a few years because that's what happens in the MAC. Teams rise to the top and fade over the years. We'll be good next year but as you say, emanoh, our QB will play a large role in determining HOW good.

Lots of good points here, especially from bcunn and emanoh. It was a tough game to watch and I agree that nobody should brag about five years of top recruiting classes when the results two years in a row is third in the division. It's frustrating, but this team has to show it on the field. Not taking advantage of NIU's three empty drives in the first half was an absolute killer.

It's also funny that once again people are blaming the refs for this loss. Really? REALLY?? The refs were a complete non-factor last night and it was a shockingly clean game in terms of penalties. Last night came down to the team that was better prepared with an outstanding QB beating up UT.

Agree with the operational comments...UT's no huddle does not good...we stand and look at the sidelines for ever, look like we are going to snap the ball then LOOK AT THE SIDE LINE AGAIN, Really? Defensive calls need to be much quicker...not in place to play defense when we need to. Do agree that if we truly are getting 3 Star+ players then we are not coaching them up. One thing we all must remember, MC is learning to be a head coach on our time. Earlier in the year someone posted that his staff is young and full of his friends...I think our youth is hurting us on this staff. One other point, We are young on D and NIU is GOOD! Real GOOD! We are close but that is not fun when you are 0-4 vs. the best. You would think that at least once we could take them. I thought this year was going to be it. One last point...I think our QB play will be MUCH better next year with mini Johnny Football taking snaps.

(11-21-2013 08:40 AM)emanoh Wrote:  Owens just didn't get any better

Truth...

I think we can all agree that TO just didnt get any better as a QB as his UT career went along.

Despite the loss, I'm excited about the future. I was thinking on the drive home from the Glass Bowl that Miami will be in town in less than two years and UT will have a mature Kareem Hunt, a second year QB (Woodside, Ely, whoever), and possibly one of the best WRs in the country with Alonzo Russel. I hope the DLine continues to improve - especially Marquise Moore - he could anchor that line if he loses a little bit of weight and gets lean.

Yes, the upside is that we are young and have a huge upside, but it seems like we've been young for 6 yrs. Where are the dominant Seniors?

I am optimistic for the future of the lines, we look solid at RB and WR. We get a gamer at QB and you'll see a different UT team.

(11-20-2013 11:53 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  Bingo. I give Northern Ill all the credit but that was an embarrassing performance on national tv by the Rockets. I just don't see this program going to the next level with this coaching staff...

There is no shame is losing to a good program such as NIU, even if it is the 4th year in a row but it is disgraceful for the players and especially the coaching staff not to be prepared to give that game their very best effort (particularly when it is being showcased on national TV) for 60 minutes and that includes game planning, play calling and execution as well as just "playing hard".

I am no expert at x's and o's but it doesn't require much football knowledge to see that in competitive games this year:

1) the defense was always Dr. Jekyll in the first half and Mr. Hyde in the second.

2) the offensive play calling was very uneven

3) the staff did not make meaningful half time (or other in game) adjustments in the big games

4) the staff could not get the team (or themselves) to maintain focus or bring their A game for an entire 60 minutes.

5) the data are limited here to TO, but given his failure to realize that great potential shown during his early years, I also have to wonder about the staff's ability to develop players (at least QBs).

However, to their credit the coaching staff is able to recruit remarkable talent at this level and for several years now UT has been heralded as the "best recruiting class in the MAC"----this is their saving grace. UT has enough talent to dominate the dregs of the MAC and FCS schools as well as winning most games against "moderately good" MAC teams despite the coaching handicaps listed above. However, when they encounter a very good team such as a Missouri or NIU or even Ball State the coaching limitations listed above prevent UT from winning any of those games even when they have the talent to be competitive with them.

Hopefully the staff will themselves gain the experience to correct their current deficiencies (or alternatively, Campbell will learn how to better hire assistants) and the program can move to the next level and the coaching staff can move to a BCS job soon thereafter. If not I can see a steady diet of 7-5 or 8-4 seasons often with bowl invitations but no MAC championships------kind of like Stan's coaching career at UT----a number of good teams (Stan even had some great wins) but no NCAA.

Therefore, until (if and when) the coaching staff evolves sufficiently to take the program to the next level, in order to not suffer the frustration of a greyhound chasing a mechanical rabbit at the dog track I would suggest that they change their slogan from "chasing greatness" to "chasing goodness" because while they can still produce "good" teams, I am afraid that "greatness" is going to continue to elude the program until the coaching staff solves their own problems.

One thing that is being overlooked on NIU's side of the ball was how well their WR's blocked once Lynch got past the line of scrimage. Those guys would lock down the inside like the great wall of china and allow Lynch to pop outside. They might not have put up huge numbers, but Lynch wouldn't be as successful with out his guys on the outside.

Someone mentioned Ref's earlier and I'm glad they stayed out of the game. If there was any non-called-calls, it might have been holding on the NIU wr's, but I really don't have any complaints. Can't blame officiating on the one, they didn't fumble, rush plays and give up in the second half.