(11-07-2013 01:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Well look at this

http://www.vpap.org/committees/profile/m...dustry=165

Seems environmentalists gave McAuliff about $3.8M so he would HIDE facts. That's not exactly science.

That's more than the GOP gave Cuccinelli for his entire campaign. Food for thought.

(11-07-2013 12:42 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 12:21 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  Thanks for the pic Murray. Now we know where to pick the fight.

Not really. look at he map, I guess it's just some stylized compiliation but none of the county borders are correct, some of the geography is way off- Fairfax south and west? kind of a weird mock-up.

Think of that map as a cartogram - with the actual outline of Virginia remaining the same, but with the land mass of cities and counties corresponding to the voting population of its citizens. Thus, because Fairfax County has the most voters, they also have the most area on the map (even extending far into SW Virginia).

Does that make sense? (I do agree that the map is weird, and could be made better)

Here's an example of a cartogram using world population (land mass corresponding with population):

(11-07-2013 01:01 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 12:48 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 10:50 AM)Murray007 Wrote:  Population density map of Virginia for the 2013 gubernatorial election, shaded with colors for each candidate:

Lynchburg isn't on the map, and Richmond is on there twice. Somebody screwed up.

I don't see Lynchburg either, but one of the Richmonds is Richmond County, not to be confused with and no relationship to the city of Richmond.

Lynchburg is on there. It's a red L-shaped Lego below the border of Fairfax County.

Basically, go to Danville (light blue on the border of NC) and keep going east until you hit the mid-red colored block; Lynchburg isn't dark red but not light red either.

(11-07-2013 02:25 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  Lynchburg is on there. It's a red L-shaped Lego below the border of Fairfax County.

When I look under the Fairfax boarder, I see Roanoke City, Franklin City?, Bedford County, Lynchburg, Charlotte County, Lunenburg, Prince Edward, Nottoway, Amherst, Buckingham, Fluvanna, Green County, Ablemarle, & Charlottesville.

Everybody cool with that?

It's a population density map, the geography doesn't matter. Would everyone be happier if it was just pie chart or a histogram?

(11-07-2013 02:37 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  It's a population density map, the geography doesn't matter. Would everyone be happier if it was just pie chart or a histogram?

Presentation matters. This is poor.

(11-07-2013 02:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 02:37 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  It's a population density map, the geography doesn't matter. Would everyone be happier if it was just pie chart or a histogram?

Presentation matters. This is poor.

Blame UVA's Center for Politics then - I got it from Larry Sabato's site. http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystal...-ken-show/

I just thought it was a useful tool for showing the power of NOVA, especially Fairfax County. Oh well.

(11-07-2013 02:37 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  It's a population density map, the geography doesn't matter. Would everyone be happier if it was just pie chart or a histogram?

+1

(11-07-2013 02:52 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 02:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 02:37 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  It's a population density map, the geography doesn't matter. Would everyone be happier if it was just pie chart or a histogram?

Presentation matters. This is poor.

Blame UVA's Center for Politics then - I got it from Larry Sabato's site. http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystal...-ken-show/

I just thought it was a useful tool for showing the power of NOVA, especially Fairfax County. Oh well.

I understand. Contrary to my reputation, I'm not bashing anyone. They experimented, and it didn't work well. C'est la vie. It happens. Not every experiment is a success, but you have to experiment to get progress.

But, I suspect people will keep pushing these cartograms as something useful. That is a mistake.

Torch, it's really not that hard to understand bub.

(11-07-2013 03:20 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  Torch, it's really not that hard to understand bub.

Colbert's jokes aren't hard to understand either, but they're still poor.

(11-07-2013 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Obamacare may in fact end up being the train wreck that you think it will be.

What alternative did we have? Republican had no intention of ever reforming health care.

That is the problem with Conservatives.....they never want to change anything.

Again, Fit... you REFUSE to accept there were TWO Republican proposals that were NOT ALLOWED TO SEE THE HOUSE OR SENATE FLOOR for discussion. Would they have resulted in a working system? WE wont' know because Republicans were not given that opportunity to argue for their proposals.

Ironically a couple of the final clauses in Obamacare were DIRECTLY from Republican proposals in those other bills that weren't allowed to the floor for consideration.

So can we stop with the "Republicans didn't offer any alternatives" lie?

Then let's see them. Lets see the two house proposals that weren't allowed.

(11-07-2013 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Then let's see them. Lets see the two house proposals that weren't allowed.

Btw.. I said two REPUBLICAN proposed bills, not two house bills.

1) Allowing state insurances to cross lines - don't remember what all was in the bill (if the link still works) But remember Joe Wilson's "You LIe" comment that caused a stir? It was one of the bills he was heavily responsible for working on that was not allowed to the floor, so he made the comment when Obama claimed Republicans didn't have a health care plan.

2) Bush proposed a bill in 2007 - Forbes Article reminder

Quote:On the contrary, President Bush’s health plan was declared “dead on arrival” by Democrats in 2007

.

This Article claims that GWB's proposal would have done less damage (per the CBO).

#3) the AHCRA (EDIT: this one is still a work in progress, and authored by a physician (Dr. Coe ®, TN)).

Whoops: Actually there are MORE than 2 proposed alternatives even before ObamaCare (some of which did get to the floor)

Quote:Let’s start with 5 comprehensive health reform proposals that have actually been introduced in Congress—some well before President Obama even was nominated for president, and all months before the House (11/7/09) or Senate (12/24/09) voted on what eventually became Obamacare.

Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act (S. 1783) introduced by Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) July 12, 2007.
Every American Insured Health Act introduced by Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Bob Corker (R-TN) with co-sponsors Tom Coburn (R-OK), Mel Martinez (formerly R-FL) and Elizabeth Dole (formerly R-NC) on July 26, 2007.
Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT) and Ron Wyden (D-OR) introduced the Healthy Americans Act on January 18, 2007 and re-introduced the same bill on February 5, 2009.
Patients’ Choice Act of 2009 introduced by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC) and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA) on May 20, 2009.
H.R. 2300, Empowering Patients First Act introduced July 30, 2009 by Rep. Tom Price (R-GA).

Quote:Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:

Individual Pay or Play proposed in 2005 by John Goodman; this is a minimalist version of a broader reform envisaged by Goodman built on converting the tax exclusion into universal tax credits.

Health Status Insurance originally proposed by John Cochrane in 1995.

Universal Health Savings Accounts proposed by John Goodman and Peter Ferrara in 2012. This combines fixed tax credits with individual pay or play and health status insurance concepts along with Roth-style Health Savings Accounts.

Fixed tax credits. A variety of proposals have centered on using fix tax credits to replace the current inefficient and unfair tax exclusion for employer-provided health benefits. Two good explanations of how that would work are here:

James C. Capretta and Robert E. Moffit, “How to Replace Obamacare,” National Affairs, no. 11 (Spring 2012).
James C. Capretta. Constructing an Alternative to Obamacare: Key Details for a Practical Replacement Program. American Enterprise Institute, December 2012.

Income-Related Tax Credits proposed by Mark Pauly and John Hoff in Responsible Tax Credits (2002) and endorsed by the American Medical Association. More recently, 8 scholars from Harvard, University of Chicago, and USC–Jay Bhattacharya, Amitabh Chandra, Michael Chernew, Dana Goldman, Anupam Jena, Darius Lakdawalla,Anup Malani and Tomas Philipson—releasedBest of Both Worlds: Uniting Universal Coverage and Personal Choice in Health Care (2013) which also is built around a model of individual health insurance subsidized with income-related tax credits.

Flexible Benefits Tax Credit For Health Insurance by Lynn Etheredge in 2001.

Near-Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2001 by Sara Singer, Alan Garber and Alain Enthoven (covers only non-elderly).

Universal Health Insurance Exchanges proposed in 2013 by former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy (covers Medicare and Medicaid in addition to privately insured).

(11-07-2013 02:20 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 12:42 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 12:21 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  Thanks for the pic Murray. Now we know where to pick the fight.

Not really. look at he map, I guess it's just some stylized compiliation but none of the county borders are correct, some of the geography is way off- Fairfax south and west? kind of a weird mock-up.

Think of that map as a cartogram - with the actual outline of Virginia remaining the same, but with the land mass of cities and counties corresponding to the voting population of its citizens. Thus, because Fairfax County has the most voters, they also have the most area on the map (even extending far into SW Virginia).

Does that make sense? (I do agree that the map is weird, and could be made better)

Here's an example of a cartogram using world population (land mass corresponding with population):

Ah, got it. I should have made that connection but didn't Ah well. It probably would have been a little more useful/easily interpreted if they hadn't tied to stay within the actual boundaries. Allow for the bulging and distortions of size in the appropriate areas.

That would better emphasize the size and power of the NoVa block, IMO. Now, it's hard to even discern where Fearfax even starts and stops.

We all like "Compromise" right?

Give Fairfax to DC and form a state.

Northern CA becomes a state

Northern CO becomes a state

Puerto Rico becomes a state.

54 states... almost to Obama's 58.

that's 3 reds to 2 blues. Split California into 3 states and you have a deal.

While we are at it, lets give Philly to NJ and then make Upstate NY a state along with Michigan's Upper Peninsula

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

any state that has two Senators and one representative needs to combine til we have at least a 1 Sen to 10 rep ratio.

Terrence changed his motto:

"BS First"

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/3979...28/photo/1