NC State and Nevada got into a tiff about a decade ago when Nevada starting to use the term Wolfpack instead of Wolf Pack. NC State has used Wolfpack, single word, since the 1920, but never trademarked the word. To the best of my knowledge only "Tuffie" the "Strutting Wolf" is trademarked.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.491506298...=1&pid=1.7

(11-02-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Marshall, Miami(OH), Mississippi State, Montana State, Memphis,... lots of schools use a variation of the block M besides Michigan.

no only michigan uses block M.

miami & Minn use the letter but its not blocked, msu use's a M with a state through it

they all add use variations because michigan is the only school thats allowed to truly use it

(11-02-2013 07:15 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Marshall, Miami(OH), Mississippi State, Montana State, Memphis,... lots of schools use a variation of the block M besides Michigan.

no only michigan uses block M.

miami & Minn use the letter but its not blocked, msu use's a M with a state through it

they all add use variations because michigan is the only school thats allowed to truly use it

Here's a Marshall helmet...

yeah but they almost always put the marshall through it, thats close to a block M but thats not a true block M if you ask me.

stanford, syracuse & nc state all use literally the exact same outline

(11-02-2013 07:15 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Marshall, Miami(OH), Mississippi State, Montana State, Memphis,... lots of schools use a variation of the block M besides Michigan.

no only michigan uses block M.

miami & Minn use the letter but its not blocked, msu use's a M with a state through it

they all add use variations because michigan is the only school thats allowed to truly use it

You continue to misunderstand the issue. Schools use different variations to be different. Michigan won't use someone else's M either. It has no control over a generic block "M".

there's no more variation in the "Ms" then there is in the "Ss" shown in the OP. These are all block Ms.

(11-02-2013 07:46 PM)john01992 Wrote:  yeah but they almost always put the marshall through it

Marshall has never had a helmet decal with then word Marshall through the block M.
http://nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/

I think this is a clear violation:

(11-02-2013 10:11 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  there's no more variation in the "Ms" then there is in the "Ss" shown in the OP. These are all block Ms.

and of all those schools that are the closest to blcok M always have a picture or word across the middle in their logo. michigan however uses the straight up block M more often than the logo in that picture

And Marshall uses the M without the buffalo head far more often than the one shown below...

(11-03-2013 11:44 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  And Marshall uses the M without the buffalo head far more often than the one shown below...

go on google images. you can see a huge difference in hit results of the regular block M and block M with the name through it.

michigan used the simple block M long before marshall ever did (i have a banner from the 60s with the block M on it)

Both Marshall and WVU have changed their logos since 1980. WVU switched from this...



to this in 1980...



Marshall went from this...



to this at about the same time (I forget the exact date of the switch, but perhaps a Marshall fan can chime in)...

im talking school logo's here not helmets

(11-03-2013 12:13 PM)john01992 Wrote:  im talking school logo's here not helmets

HERD used to be Marshall's logo, just like the diagonal WVU was West Virginia's. Both were on the helmets, although WVU put the state outline on there to emphasize the fact that they represented the entire State of West Virginia.

Now Marshall's logo is the block M, while WVU's is the Flying WV.

(11-03-2013 12:27 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-03-2013 12:13 PM)john01992 Wrote:  im talking school logo's here not helmets

HERD used to be Marshall's logo, just like the diagonal WVU was West Virginia's. Both were on the helmets, although WVU put the state outline on there to emphasize the fact that they represented the entire State of West Virginia.

Now Marshall's logo is the block M, while WVU's is the Flying WV.

what about the MSU logo that "we are marshall" used.

was that just a product of hollywood?

(11-03-2013 12:36 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(11-03-2013 12:27 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-03-2013 12:13 PM)john01992 Wrote:  im talking school logo's here not helmets

HERD used to be Marshall's logo, just like the diagonal WVU was West Virginia's. Both were on the helmets, although WVU put the state outline on there to emphasize the fact that they represented the entire State of West Virginia.

Now Marshall's logo is the block M, while WVU's is the Flying WV.

what about the MSU logo that "we are marshall" used.

was that just a product of hollywood?

Marshall went through several logos for a time in the late 70s and early 80s. I can't say about that one for sure. If my father was still alive, I could ask him. But since he isn't, I'll have to let a Marshall fan field this one.

When you consider that most anyone with a journalism degree had to take a class covering intellectual property (or at least anyone with a journ degree from Arkansas State) it is amazing how poorly the press covers these spats.

As noted frequently in this thread you cannot own a letter or a number or a common word but you can own the rights to a particular expression of them.

For example Arkansas State does not claim to own the word "state"
but does claim ownership of this expression of the word.


That means no one can precisely copy it and on a case by cases basis there will be a determination whether another expression is so close that it would cause confusion in the market or whether it is an attempt to mislead the public into thinking the other expression is related to or endorsed by the owner.

(11-03-2013 11:39 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 10:11 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  there's no more variation in the "Ms" then there is in the "Ss" shown in the OP. These are all block Ms.

and of all those schools that are the closest to blcok M always have a picture or word across the middle in their logo. michigan however uses the straight up block M more often than the logo in that picture

and your OP about the letter S has the same types of variations. I don't understand your point.

Fisher Price would like to have a word.

(11-03-2013 12:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  When you consider that most anyone with a journalism degree had to take a class covering intellectual property (or at least anyone with a journ degree from Arkansas State) it is amazing how poorly the press covers these spats.

As noted frequently in this thread you cannot own a letter or a number or a common word but you can own the rights to a particular expression of them.

For example Arkansas State does not claim to own the word "state"
but does claim ownership of this expression of the word.


That means no one can precisely copy it and on a case by cases basis there will be a determination whether another expression is so close that it would cause confusion in the market or whether it is an attempt to mislead the public into thinking the other expression is related to or endorsed by the owner.

Just to be absolutely "precise", that doesn't mean no one cannot "precisely" copy the above "stAte" design. That would invokes copyright restriction, for which the "stAte" wordmark is not eligible, since it is only a word made up of letters. However, precisely copying it, obviously, would give more credence to any litigation arguing brand confusion, or even intentional trademark infringement (and intention can be important) within some overlapping sphere of trade (sports, education, t-shirts, mugs). I make that distinction only because it is absolutely clear that you cannot copyright a font, no matter how fancy. Trademarking a logo is different, and distinctiveness of logo can strengthen its defensibility, so to speak, as a trademark, but it also is really just smart marketing.

As an aside, when schools has a wordmark logo and slaps an image across it, like the Mizzou tiger across the M or the buffalo across the Marshal M, that not only makes it distinctly unique from others to avoid any such issues, but also introduces a copyright eligible image which is easier to shut down infringers with because it is a pure copyright violation without the need to get into brand confusion, etc. Sort of a splitting hair thing for the purposes of this discussion, though, because the with the levels of lawyering wielded by CLC or these schools, it really it is sort of a moot point anyway. BTW, if you don't defend these marks, then you risk losing control of them, which is why you see so many schools these days going after high school teams using their logos without a licensing agreement. Legally these days, they really have to protect them from use by anyone.

BTW, Syracuse has "S" registered as a trademark in three separate filings (reg # 78823405, 78823412, 78823403) with the colors Orange and Blue claimed as a mark feature...and has separate filings for the S with "Syracuse" over it.

Michigan State has "S" registered as a trademark (78972589 green as a feature) and (3510691 white as a feature). A dead registration by MSU claims S with no color feature, that mark was opposed by Syracuse in USPTO filings.