(11-02-2013 11:31 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 10:52 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  OC, the 3 former Big East schools in the AAC would probably be against any form of hybrid, and they would most likely state that position in no uncertain terms, since it was THE major contributing factor to the demise of Big East football. Certain BE football schools wanting to preserve that hybrid at all costs proved that diverse interests serve nobody, and only leads to destruction...

Having only two is no biggie in my opinion. The Big East was literally half and half. Both sides had equal amounts of power to push their own interests. In my proposal VCU and Wichita State would just be along for the ride, they wouldn't be the driver. It's similar to Notre Dame and the ACC, both sides benefit and there's no power struggle.

Look at what the American stands to gain.

Richmond-Petersburg is the 58th largest media market.
Wichita-Hutchinson is the 69th largest media market.

Two good ranked basketball programs.
A good soccer program, VCU.
A good baseball program, WSU.

I don't think it will happen, dude. Have you noticed you're the only person promoting this idea? Nobody else thinks it's a good idea, or they'd have jumped on the bandwagon...

(11-02-2013 11:17 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  A few of you have the Big XII mentality regarding expansion...

Let's not try to grow and flourish as a conference. We might lose money. Shouldn't adding any new market increase the TV value? It has in the other conferences.

I agree, the short term greed of the Big12 schools will ironically become the long term downfall of the conference. Even if they expand, they've waited so long that all the teams that would add value are gone, or are tied up by GoR's.

The next Big12 TV contract will shrink imo even if the Big12 adds some schools with potential, and have the CCG. Texas and Oklahoma's name brands wont be enough to keep up with the rest of the P5 conferences. In fact, I think those schools are already entertaining a jump to another conference, for the benefit of their school's long term futures.

In short, the Big12 dies due to lack of vision, and OU/UT and anyone else smart enough to get out early will be the only winners from the Big12.

Also, I used to be a Big12 apologist, but not anymore. They grabbed WVU, and didn't get anyone else to compliment them. WVU is a definite asset, but they're on an island. If the Big12 had continued on and grabbed a Cincy, or Louisville, and UCF/USF, they'd have had a legit eastern conference and would have a CCG, and would be eyed as an equal amongst the P5. Now, they just look half finished having only taken WVU alone.

(11-02-2013 11:43 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 11:17 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  A few of you have the Big XII mentality regarding expansion...

Let's not try to grow and flourish as a conference. We might lose money. Shouldn't adding any new market increase the TV value? It has in the other conferences.

I agree, the short term greed of the Big12 schools will ironically become the long term downfall of the conference. Even if they expand, they've waited so long that all the teams that would add value are gone, or are tied up by GoR's.

The next Big12 TV contract will shrink imo even if the Big12 adds some schools with potential, and have the CCG. Texas and Oklahoma's name brands wont be enough to keep up with the rest of the P5 conferences. In fact, I think those schools are already entertaining a jump to another conference, for the benefit of their school's long term futures.

In short, the Big12 dies due to lack of vision, and OU/UT and anyone else smart enough to get out early will be the only winners from the Big12.

Also, I used to be a Big12 apologist, but not anymore. They grabbed WVU, and didn't get anyone else to compliment them. WVU is a definite asset, but they're on an island. If the Big12 had continued on and grabbed a Cincy, or Louisville, and UCF/USF, they'd have had a legit eastern conference and would have a CCG, and would be eyed as an equal amongst the P5. Now, they just look half finished having only taken WVU alone.

That's been my point in all my posts regarding this issue. Louisville and Cincy would have been awesome adds, How in the world can the networks make an argument that adding that many TV sets to the Big XII would not be worth a more lucrative contract? Smells like a short term money grab by Texas to me, to stay at ten. When the TV money shrinks, they will be gone. The saving grace is that OU will always have a place to land. The rest of the conference, aside from maybe Kansas and WVU, will be thrown out with the bath water. Just like old times.

(11-02-2013 11:37 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 11:31 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 10:52 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  OC, the 3 former Big East schools in the AAC would probably be against any form of hybrid, and they would most likely state that position in no uncertain terms, since it was THE major contributing factor to the demise of Big East football. Certain BE football schools wanting to preserve that hybrid at all costs proved that diverse interests serve nobody, and only leads to destruction...

Having only two is no biggie in my opinion. The Big East was literally half and half. Both sides had equal amounts of power to push their own interests. In my proposal VCU and Wichita State would just be along for the ride, they wouldn't be the driver. It's similar to Notre Dame and the ACC, both sides benefit and there's no power struggle.

Look at what the American stands to gain.

Richmond-Petersburg is the 58th largest media market.
Wichita-Hutchinson is the 69th largest media market.

Two good ranked basketball programs.
A good soccer program, VCU.
A good baseball program, WSU.

I don't think it will happen, dude. Have you noticed you're the only person promoting this idea? Nobody else thinks it's a good idea, or they'd have jumped on the bandwagon...

Adding VCU is not a bad idea. Sure, the basketball and football schools had different interests---but that was the case for a long time. The reason they stayed together as long as they did is that they were worth more together. Adding 2-3 excellent basketball schools to the AAC would dilute the voting power of all-sports schools minimally while adding significant value to the conferences earning potential. The Big East has shown that there is significant media value in basketball if the league is attractive enough.

(10-28-2013 01:36 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  We already have the best case imo, any further expansion just divides a small pot of money up even further.

Yes, we make so little that adding schools would be foolish. There is nobody willing to join us who would bring in more money than they would take.

(11-02-2013 08:01 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Just wait till January. Partial merger with some MWC schools.

I think you're right.

(11-02-2013 04:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 01:36 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  We already have the best case imo, any further expansion just divides a small pot of money up even further.

Yes, we make so little that adding schools would be foolish. There is nobody willing to join us who would bring in more money than they would take.

Perhaps in the very short term. The Big East got 4 million per team for a similar lineup with zero football. My guess is that adding VCU and Witchata would make basket ball by itself worth at least 2 million a team. If the football sides performs halfway well on national TV during the next 6 years and the league shows a little stability---a total package of 5-10 million per all-sports team might be doable.

(11-02-2013 05:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 04:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 01:36 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  We already have the best case imo, any further expansion just divides a small pot of money up even further.

Yes, we make so little that adding schools would be foolish. There is nobody willing to join us who would bring in more money than they would take.

Perhaps in the very short term. The Big East got 4 million per team for a similar lineup with zero football. My guess is that adding VCU and Witchata would make basket ball by itself worth at least 2 million a team. If the football sides performs halfway well on national TV during the next 6 years and the league shows a little stability---a total package of 5-10 million per all-sports team might be doable.

It's not gonna matter, the reality of The American is that it will never be better than it is right now. This is the best lineup possible.

(11-02-2013 05:30 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 05:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 04:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 01:36 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  We already have the best case imo, any further expansion just divides a small pot of money up even further.

Yes, we make so little that adding schools would be foolish. There is nobody willing to join us who would bring in more money than they would take.

Perhaps in the very short term. The Big East got 4 million per team for a similar lineup with zero football. My guess is that adding VCU and Witchata would make basket ball by itself worth at least 2 million a team. If the football sides performs halfway well on national TV during the next 6 years and the league shows a little stability---a total package of 5-10 million per all-sports team might be doable.

It's not gonna matter, the reality of The American is that it will never be better than it is right now. This is the best lineup possible.

I would agree that this is just about the best teams left to be in the AAC. That being said, it doesn't mean this is the best the conference will ever be. I think each program is putting time/money into facilities and trying to grow their program. Ultimately this will grow the conference in comparison to what it is today. The next TV contract will be much better. I wouldn't make a guess what level of money, but it couldn't get worse than it is now, unless teams leave.

(11-02-2013 04:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Adding VCU is not a bad idea. Sure, the basketball and football schools had different interests---but that was the case for a long time. The reason they stayed together as long as they did is that they were worth more together. Adding 2-3 excellent basketball schools to the AAC would dilute the voting power of all-sports schools minimally while adding significant value to the conferences earning potential. The Big East has shown that there is significant media value in basketball if the league is attractive enough.

Don't you know hybrids are the debul!!

(10-28-2013 01:30 PM)Jganon93 Wrote:  thoughts?

American Athletic conference 2016

East:
UConn
Temple
Navy (Football only)
UMass
Army (Football only)
ECU
USF
UCF

VCU (non-football member)

West:
Houston
Cincinnati
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Memphis

Wichita State (non-football member)




Need to move one school from east to west but couldn't decide. IMO very strong conference with at least 4 bids to the NCAA tournament every year. No football power houses. Cincinnati and USF are the most proven but programs such as UCF, Houston, and ECU have a ton of potential. BYU and Air Force might jump ship as football members in the west if no other options present themselves.

Thoughts?

I give you the Gulf Coast Conference:
Tulsa, Memphis, UH, Rice, Tulane, USF, UCF, So. Miss, and SMU.

I give you the Northeast Conference:
UMASS, UCONN (football only-all other sports in the BIG EAST with a basketball scheduling agreement with UC), Buffalo, Cincinnati, Temple, Marshall, Army, Navy, and VCU (non-football - filling in for UCONN).

*ECU takes Marshall's vacancy in the CUSA.

(11-03-2013 01:04 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 01:30 PM)Jganon93 Wrote:  thoughts?

American Athletic conference 2016

East:
UConn
Temple
Navy (Football only)
UMass
Army (Football only)
ECU
USF
UCF

VCU (non-football member)

West:
Houston
Cincinnati
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Memphis

Wichita State (non-football member)




Need to move one school from east to west but couldn't decide. IMO very strong conference with at least 4 bids to the NCAA tournament every year. No football power houses. Cincinnati and USF are the most proven but programs such as UCF, Houston, and ECU have a ton of potential. BYU and Air Force might jump ship as football members in the west if no other options present themselves.

Thoughts?

I give you the Gulf Coast Conference:
Tulsa, Memphis, UH, Rice, Tulane, USF, UCF, So. Miss, and SMU.

I give you the Northeast Conference:
UMASS, UCONN (football only-all other sports in the BIG EAST with a basketball scheduling agreement with UC), Buffalo, Cincinnati, Temple, Marshall, Army, Navy, and VCU (non-football - filling in for UCONN).

*ECU takes Marshall's vacancy in the CUSA.

May as well go all in on the coastal theme.

Add Arky State, Troy, ECU, FIU, FAU, TxSt, UTSA for a 16 team league.

GCC West

Hou
Rice
SMU
TxSt
UTSA
Tulsa
Arky St
Tulane

GCC East

UCF
USF
FiU
FAU
S Miss
Troy/UAB
ECU
Memphis

Blanket your two biggest states and hit every state along the gulf coast. Troy could be UAB, but Troy has more students and doesn't have as many issues as UAB. Memphis could be exchanged for a second Louisiana school if you want to stay mor coastal, but I think Memphis is more valuable. Lots of driveable games in the east and west. Probably not a lot of tv value---but with time maybe rivalries will develope that will appeal to tv.

(11-03-2013 12:36 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 04:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Adding VCU is not a bad idea. Sure, the basketball and football schools had different interests---but that was the case for a long time. The reason they stayed together as long as they did is that they were worth more together. Adding 2-3 excellent basketball schools to the AAC would dilute the voting power of all-sports schools minimally while adding significant value to the conferences earning potential. The Big East has shown that there is significant media value in basketball if the league is attractive enough.

Don't you know hybrids are the debul!!

Don't you know debul hybrids have no balls?

The Big East is the steer conference, Bit!

(11-02-2013 05:34 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 05:30 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 05:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-02-2013 04:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 01:36 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  We already have the best case imo, any further expansion just divides a small pot of money up even further.

Yes, we make so little that adding schools would be foolish. There is nobody willing to join us who would bring in more money than they would take.

Perhaps in the very short term. The Big East got 4 million per team for a similar lineup with zero football. My guess is that adding VCU and Witchata would make basket ball by itself worth at least 2 million a team. If the football sides performs halfway well on national TV during the next 6 years and the league shows a little stability---a total package of 5-10 million per all-sports team might be doable.

It's not gonna matter, the reality of The American is that it will never be better than it is right now. This is the best lineup possible.

I would agree that this is just about the best teams left to be in the AAC. That being said, it doesn't mean this is the best the conference will ever be. I think each program is putting time/money into facilities and trying to grow their program. Ultimately this will grow the conference in comparison to what it is today. The next TV contract will be much better. I wouldn't make a guess what level of money, but it couldn't get worse than it is now, unless teams leave.

Wasn't talking about results, TV, or any of that, just the lineup.

Why would the AAC add anyone? It makes no sense or cents.

The market has created a value for that league, and there's not much value there.

(11-03-2013 06:11 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Why would the AAC add anyone? It makes no sense or cents.

The market has created a value for that league, and there's not much value there.

Then adding somebody doesn't really change the money now does it? Adding VCU costs each AAC all-sports school a whopping $50K. Is 50K in schools with 35-50 million dollar athletic budgets really going to matter? I submit that if $50K is determining your realignment strategy you really need to rethink D-1.

If VCU qualifies for the NCAA or their presence helps the RPI of another member school enough to qualify, then VCU's cost is close to nothing. However, adding VCU would create an AAC where 5 of the 12 teams are typically tournament quality programs. Assume one or two of the upward trending programs field at or near tournament quality teams and you have a league that begins to be a Big East type property in the next television negotiations. I'd say establishing a TV audience over the next 6 years is the most important thing the AAC can do. Its far more important and will pay far larger dividends than pocketing an extra 50K annually. In my humble opinion, I'd rather have a better league than an extra 50K.

The present AAC with all already invited members is just fine. I don't want any part of the conference listed.

(11-03-2013 08:21 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  The present AAC with all already invited members is just fine. I don't want any part of the conference listed.

Nobody would WANT to be part of the Gulf Coast conference mentioned above. It would be because everything else had failed. In fact, long term membership in such a diluted mess would probably be the beginning of the end for Houston football. The casual fan would likely have less interst in that league than they did in the old CUSA. At this point, all I really want to do is add VCU.

(11-03-2013 08:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-03-2013 06:11 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Why would the AAC add anyone? It makes no sense or cents.

The market has created a value for that league, and there's not much value there.

Then adding somebody doesn't really change the money now does it? Adding VCU costs each AAC all-sports school a whopping $50K. Is 50K in schools with 35-50 million dollar athletic budgets really going to matter? I submit that if $50K is determining your realignment strategy you really need to rethink D-1.

If VCU qualifies for the NCAA or their presence helps the RPI of another member school enough to qualify, then VCU's cost is close to nothing. However, adding VCU would create an AAC where 5 of the 12 teams are typically tournament quality programs. Assume one or two of the upward trending programs field at or near tournament quality teams and you have a league that begins to be a Big East type property in the next television negotiations. I'd say establishing a TV audience over the next 6 years is the most important thing the AAC can do. Its far more important and will pay far larger dividends than pocketing an extra 50K annually. In my humble opinion, I'd rather have a better league than an extra 50K.

Tell me the brand of this conference does not look stronger with these schools added.